Jason Witten Cap Hit?

[Datruth88]

whats his cap hit/savings we’re facing for his retirement ?

 

[Shinaoi]

Someone on the radio said 6 million in savings. Not sure if that’s right or not.

 

[Bluefin]

There is no dead money.

But Jason Witten has not decided to retire yet, he's going to take the weekend to talk things over with his family.

 

[dallas72]

Between Dez & Witten thats over 15 mil we could of used to sign free agents ..kinda put us in a bad spot that everyone is signed

 

[Torturedcowboysfan]

Between Dez & Witten thats over 15 mil we could of used to sign free agents ..kinda put us in a bad spot that everyone is signed

They screwed DEz so it s good Witten did this.

 

[Hoofbite]

There is no dead money.

But Jason Witten has not decided to retire yet, he's going to take the weekend to talk things over with his family.

According to who? Looks like $5M.

 

[Bluefin]

According to who? Looks like $5M.

The extension last year included no new signing bonus.

There is going to be zero dead money if Wit calls it a day.

 

[Torturedcowboysfan]

Good news. The money from DEz and Witten could pay for Earl Thomas, but I see no way we trade for him now.

 

[Elusive6thRing]

With the money we get for Witten we should sign that Dez Bryant guy, I hear he's a top 4 receiver.

 

[Hoofbite]

The extension last year included no new signing bonus.

There is going to be zero dead money if Wit calls it a day.

I'm betting Archer is wrong. If teams could simply use "accounting procedures" to avoid dead money, then how does dead money even exist?

Whatever prorated money Dallas had for Jason will be dead money. That's how it works. You can't restructure previously prorated money in such a fashion that it wouldn't become dead money.

 

[Hoofbite]

With the money we get for Witten we should sign that Dez Bryant guy, I hear he's a top 4 receiver.

You hear wrong. Way wrong. Been wrong for at least 3 years.

 

[Bluefin]

I'm betting Archer is wrong. If teams could simply use "accounting procedures" to avoid dead money, then how does dead money even exist?

Whatever prorated money Dallas had for Jason will be dead money. That's how it works. You can't restructure previously prorated money in such a fashion that it wouldn't become dead money.

Todd Archer is by far the best Cowboys reporter when it comes to anything salary cap related.

The extension last year just added years and base salaries to the contract, there was no signing bonus on conversion of a base salary to a restructure bonus.

I was under the impression the restructure earlier this off-season would mean potential dead money in future seasons.

Archer says the team did not write Jason Witten a check. If true, that means they shifted base salary from this upcoming season to base salaries in future years. That is an accounting procedure and would not result in any potential dead money.

I fully trust Archer on this.

 

[Hoofbite]

Todd Archer is by far the best Cowboys reporter when it comes to anything salary cap related.

The extension last year just added years and base salaries to the contract, there was no signing bonus on conversion of a base salary to a restructure bonus.

I was under the impression the restructure earlier this off-season would mean potential dead money in future seasons.

Archer says the team did not write Jason Witten a check. If true, that means they shifted base salary from this upcoming season to base salaries in future years. That is an accounting procedure and would not result in any potential dead money.

I fully trust Archer on this.

Prorations become dead money. This is a fact.

According to OTC, they restructured his base for 2018. That means they paid him his base salary in March, and it looks like they spread it across 4 years. Since that money is paid at a specific time, any remaining proration will become dead money the moment Jason is not on the roster. That's just how it works. Find me an example of any player who was paid a lump sum (bonus of any kind) that did not apply to the salary cap. You cannot do it. If you could, there wouldn't be a salary cap. If money paid could just vanish, why did Dallas carry dead money for Austin, Williams, Barber, Hamlin, Ware, Ratliff, or Romo? Why does Dallas have dead money for Dez? What GM would voluntarily carry dead money if they could just wash it away?

Trust Archer all you want, but he is wrong. In fact, I think he's so wrong that it's hard to even replicate his calculations to get $2.9M in freed up cap space.

If Dallas prorated Jason's base salary for 2018, they will have dead money. Archer says that Jason retiring frees up $2.9M. Without any dead money that would mean that Jason's total cap hit (base salary + any prorations + any bonuses) would be only $2.9M. His extension in 2017 did not have a signing bonus so how is it possible that the move only opens up $2.9M when Jason's base salary in 2018 is $5.75M?

Extension:

Here is the contract breakdown:

• 2017: $7.4 million base salary
• 2018: $5.75 million base salary, up to $750,000 in 46-man roster bonuses
• 2019: $5 million base salary, up to $1.5 million in 46-man roster bonuses
• 2020: $4.5 million base salary, up to $2 million in 46-man roster bonuses
• 2021: $3.5 million base salary, up to $3 million in 46-man roster bonuses

If Dallas has NO prorated money attributed to Witten, then why doesn't the cap space freed up by his retirement equal his base salary? It should equal his base salary plus whatever bonuses he would have had, but why doesn't it even come close to equalling just his base salary? This is not possible.

So where does the $2.9M figure come from?

 

[Bluefin]

Prorations become dead money. This is a fact.

Yes, it is a fact.

According to Todd Archer, there has been no proration with Jason Witten's contract this off-season. He was not given a check.

If Archer is correct, all Dallas did was move non-guaranteed base salary from this season into future seasons.

That changed Witten's cap number without issuing any kind of new bonus that would be prorated over the remaining years of the contract.

There was no up front bonus given last year when Wit's deal was extended. Instead, each new year had per game roster bonuses and incentives for receptions and making the playoffs.

That means all of the prorated money against the cap ended last year.

If Archer is correct.

 

[Nightman]

Prorations become dead money. This is a fact.

According to OTC, they restructured his base for 2018. That means they paid him his base salary in March, and it looks like they spread it across 4 years. Since that money is paid at a specific time, any remaining proration will become dead money the moment Jason is not on the roster. That's just how it works. Find me an example of any player who was paid a lump sum (bonus of any kind) that did not apply to the salary cap. You cannot do it. If you could, there wouldn't be a salary cap. If money paid could just vanish, why did Dallas carry dead money for Austin, Williams, Barber, Hamlin, Ware, Ratliff, or Romo? Why does Dallas have dead money for Dez? What GM would voluntarily carry dead money if they could just wash it away?

Trust Archer all you want, but he is wrong. In fact, I think he's so wrong that it's hard to even replicate his calculations to get $2.9M in freed up cap space.

If Dallas prorated Jason's base salary for 2018, they will have dead money. Archer says that Jason retiring frees up $2.9M. Without any dead money that would mean that Jason's total cap hit (base salary + any prorations + any bonuses) would be only $2.9M. His extension in 2017 did not have a signing bonus so how is it possible that the move only opens up $2.9M when Jason's base salary in 2018 is $5.75M?

Extension:

If Dallas has NO prorated money attributed to Witten, then why doesn't the cap space freed up by his retirement equal his base salary? It should equal his base salary plus whatever bonuses he would have had, but why doesn't it even come close to equalling just his base salary? This is not possible.

So where does the $2.9M figure come from?

Witten would have to pay the full 4.7m signing bonus from the restructure back since he is retiring..... it is the Barry Sanders rule

As soon as Witten gives the money back it is rebated against the cap

Archer is saying that DAL never actually gave Witten any of the 4.7m yet..... it was just on paper
If that is so then he doesn't have to pay anything back and there will be no Dead Money and his cap hit will be 0 this year.......clearing another 2.35m with the Rule of 51 in play

DAL would now be 17m under the cap counting OScan's 2.5m

 

[Bluefin]

If Dallas has NO prorated money attributed to Witten, then why doesn't the cap space freed up by his retirement equal his base salary? It should equal his base salary plus whatever bonuses he would have had, but why doesn't it even come close to equalling just his base salary? This is not possible.

So where does the $2.9M figure come from?

That was Todd Archer's first guess at the salary cap impact of Jason Witten's possible retirement before he learned no restructure bonus check had been issued.

 

[Nightman]

Yes, it is a fact.

According to Todd Archer, there has been no proration with Jason Witten's contract this off-season. He was not given a check.

If Archer is correct, all Dallas did was move non-guaranteed base salary from this season into future seasons.

That changed Witten's cap number without issuing any kind of new bonus that would be prorated over the remaining years of the contract.

There was no up front bonus given last year when Wit's deal was extended. Instead, each new year had per game roster bonuses and incentives for receptions and making the playoffs.

That means all of the prorated money against the cap ended last year.

If Archer is correct.

I don't think it has anything to do with last year

And there is no way Witten would just defer 3.5m to the next 3 years with none of it guaranteed

Archer just means DAL did not physically give Witten any of the 4.7m restructure signing bonus yet so he doesn't have to pay it back

 

[Bluefin]

I don't think it has anything to do with last year

No, it doesn't.

I was just trying to be clear that there was no new signing or roster bonus on Jason Witten's contract that had been prorated on the salary cap.

And there is no way Witten would just defer 3.5m to the next 3 years with none of it guaranteed

Weird, right?

But according to Todd Archer, that's what happened.

Archer just means DAL did not physically give Witten any of the 4.7m restructure signing bonus yet so he doesn't have to pay it back

He said no check was written, it was an accounting procedure, and there was no cap implication.

As you know, in many cases the Cowboys have restructure clauses built into the big money contracts of their players. If used, I'm not even sure if the player/agent needs to sign anything for it to happen or if it's simply up to the team. Witten lives at the Star during the off-season. If a restructure bonus was given, it would take effect that day.

It's bizarre, but I trust Archer with salary cap info.

 

[Nightman]

Weird, right?

But according to Todd Archer, that's what happened.

That isn't what happened

Witten was going to get every dollar of the 4.7m restructure bonus this year...they just didn't actually give him the check yet..... he was not deferring the money

If he didn't retire 3.5m of the 4.7m would be prorated over the next 3 years or Dead like @Hoofbite says

It would be Dead until he paid it back which he would be required to do since he retired and wasn't cut.... a restructure bonus is the same as a signing bonus.....you can't take one and then just retire..... that is the Barry Sanders rule

 

[CCBoy]

They screwed DEz so it s good Witten did this.

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