Jason Witten last remaining WR/TE from 2016 Dak's rookie year

Yobwocs said:
Nope. He still had some great games, though the stretch of Atlanta-San Diego-Philadelphia was pretty bad. But they came consecutively and he has yet to be that bad since, which leads me to believe those 3 games were a fluke and we're way past that now.

Well, your point was that Dak couldn't adapt to a changing rotation of receivers, that's obviously false since.... the receivers he had in 2017 were mostly completely different than he had in 2018.

And yes, I agree we needed to bring in Cooper to give Dak's game a boost. So what's your point? Give me an example of a QB who played like a champ without great talent.
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> He still had some great games

In the final 8 games of 2017, he had 5 TD passes and those game in 2 games. he had 5 games where he had multiple turnovers LOL He also sucked in the Oakland and Seattle game, which you are conveniently leaving out to fit your BS topic (we have about 5 of these a week, dude)

> Well, your point was that Dak couldn't adapt to a changing rotation of receivers, that's obviously false since.... the receivers he had in 2017 were mostly completely different than he had in 2018.

No, my point is counter to yours - you're claiming that Dak played well despite players being on their last leg and the rotation. I then pointed out to you, your boy went on to say he doesn't need a Dak or Witten - just needs guys to get open. His 2017 play extended into last season, which is why we brought in Cooper!

> And yes, I agree we needed to bring in Cooper to give Dak's game a boost. So what's your point? Give me an example of a QB who played like a champ without great talent.

Uh, how about Romo who often made receivers what they are? Do you think Austin was Jerry Rice? Great QBs elevate the talent around them. Dak needs great WRs around him to play well.
 
Yobwocs said:
I think you're inflating his comments. He was just given a stupid question and answered it the best he could.

I also don't really think it matters what he says. I don't think his mouth is the brightest tool in the shed.

Still, fact is..... Dak is so adaptable and multifacted that he could win with any group of receivers. Give him the Oakland Raiders tomorrow and he'll put up 10 wins. :)
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Brightest or sharpest tool?
 
percyhoward said:
Red Zone, 2015-17
Catches / 1st downs / TD
Bryant 22 / 16 / 14
Witten 26 / 19 / 9
Beasley 20 / 18 / 14
Williams 7 / 3 / 3
Butler 3 / 2 / 2
total: 78 / 58 / 42

Elliott 6 / 2 / 1
Gallup 0 / 0 / 0
Swaim-Jarwin-Schultz 0 / 0 / 0
Beasley 20 / 18 /14
Cooper 11 / 7 / 5
total: 37 / 27 / 20

At the top are the five most-targeted players in the red zone from 2015-17, along with their 2015-17 production. Beasley had a much smaller share of the targets (14%) than Bryant (29%) or Witten (28%), but was very efficient in the red zone when he was targeted.

Below that are the five most-targeted players (treating the 3 most-targeted TE as one) in the red zone in 2018 -- again with their 2015-17 production to show the huge hole that would have to be filled. Elliott had only 6 red zone catches going into 2018. Neither Swaim nor Jarwin had a red zone catch, Schultz and Gallup were both rookies. Cooper had just 11 red zone catches and 5 TD in those three seasons in Oakland.

It all added up to less than half the receptions, less than half the first downs, and less than half the touchdowns of the most-targeted red zone players from the previous three seasons. How did they perform in 2018? How much of the hole got filled?

Elliott 11 / 4 / 2
Gallup 4 / 2 / 2
Swaim-Jarwin-Schultz 7 / 4 / 3
Beasley 6 / 2 / 2
Cooper 3 / 2 / 2

Being generous, this team had exactly one established red zone receiving threat heading into 2018 -- Cole Beasley. But without Bryant or Witten to draw the defense's attention, Beasley wasn't open like he was in the previous three seasons. His share of red zone targets went down from 14% to 9%. Extrapolating the 2018 numbers over three seasons for the sake of comparison, Elliott and the three TE all together were the equivalent of a less efficient Witten. Gallup and Cooper combined didn't match what was Dez was able to accomplish (mostly in 2016, and battling injuries much of the time).

Yes, that's a drop off. No wonder the Cowboys went from 5th and 7th in red zone TD% the previous two years to 26th in 2018. Frederick's return should help the running game in close, which in turn will make passing easier, but this team must develop some red zone weapons.
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Straight up whenever you post its just phenomenal.....appreciate the time and effort it must take...
 
percyhoward said:
This puts into perspective the huge hole left by the receiving threats that were lost going into 2018 -- in the area where it matters most. Zeke led the team in RZ targets basically out of desperation.

Red Zone Target Distribution
2018 (games 8-18)
Elliott 23%
tight ends 18%
Cooper 16%
Gallup 16%
Beasley 9%

2016-17
Bryant 29%
Witten 28%
Beasley 14%
Williams 8%
Elliott 5%
Click to expand...

Indicative of a hole we still have. Witten was never that good a goal line threat. Better from the 10-20, passing underneath short of the goal line.

Zeke is a nice target underneath in the red zone. Get him in space, and make LBs and DBs try to stop him short of the goal line. I'm all for them throwing him the ball there.

W/o Dez, even Escobar, we're lacking the back of the end zone threat. Maybe Cedrick and Hurns? Rico?
 
Section446 said:
He'll go through 100 WR's and it still won't work with him. He's not that good.
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I'd just briefly read a little bit about that 4th round Q.B. pick New England took
( stildum, styldeim, something like that, outta' Auburn),,, they were talking him up like he's a regular Tom Brady clone
( their current backup Q.B. contract expires this season)
 
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buybuydandavis said:
Indicative of a hole we still have. Witten was never that good a goal line threat. Better from the 10-20, passing underneath short of the goal line.

Zeke is a nice target underneath in the red zone. Get him in space, and make LBs and DBs try to stop him short of the goal line. I'm all for them throwing him the ball there.

W/o Dez, even Escobar, we're lacking the back of the end zone threat. Maybe Cedrick and Hurns? Rico?
Click to expand...

It won't be coming through the air - Dak is really only good for around 21-27 TDs. Which means Zeke needs to get the ball in the end zone more whether that's from inside the red zone or outside. 6 TDs on the ground with 300 touches isn't acceptable.
 
buybuydandavis said:
Indicative of a hole we still have. Witten was never that good a goal line threat. Better from the 10-20, passing underneath short of the goal line.

Zeke is a nice target underneath in the red zone. Get him in space, and make LBs and DBs try to stop him short of the goal line. I'm all for them throwing him the ball there.
Click to expand...
Zeke was targeted 17 times, and failed to score or pick up a first down on 13 of those.

Witten from the 10-20, then Zeke inside the 10 was a good combination -- once upon a time anyway. You're right, the hole is still very much there, and it's probably Moore's greatest challenge.
 
mattjames2010 said:
He also sucked in the Oakland and Seattle game, which you are conveniently leaving out to fit your BS topic (we have about 5 of these a week, dude)
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Ah, so you're conveniently focusing on his worst games. See.... this is what makes the arguments between the Dak haters and Dak fanboys frustrating. Dak haters bring up his worst games to make him look like he's terrible. Dak fanboys point to his best games, like Green Bay or Philadelphia 2018. You leave things out just like I do at the end of the day, boyo. You're zeroing in on the Indianapolis shutout. His 3-5 start to 2018. And his last half of 2017.

mattjames2010 said:
No, my point is counter to yours - you're claiming that Dak played well despite players being on their last leg and the rotation
Click to expand...

Nope. My point is that Dak can adapt to any receivers - as long as the receivers are good. He has had a high turnover rate in the skilled positions since he's been here, and he's done mostly really well despite the changes. He's found a way, dude. He doesn't really have a comfort zone like some QBs.

mattjames2010 said:
Uh, how about Romo who often made receivers what they are? Do you think Austin was Jerry Rice? Great QBs elevate the talent around them. Dak needs great WRs around him to play well.
Click to expand...

So your best example is Romo? So in other words, you're basically admitting every QB needs great talent around him to play well. Gotcha! First thing we agreed on all day.
 
Yobwocs said:
I just realized this - and find this interesting. Dak has gotten a completely different set of targets in just 3 years difference. There are no other WRs or TEs still left on our current roster from the 2016 team.

Another reason for how well Dak has done since entering the league. :)
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You're fogetting about Rico Gathers. Don't overlook Rico...
 
percyhoward said:
Zeke was targeted 17 times, and failed to score or pick up a first down on 13 of those.

Witten from the 10-20, then Zeke inside the 10 was a good combination -- once upon a time anyway. You're right, the hole is still very much there, and it's probably Moore's greatest challenge.
Click to expand...

Short yardage should be easy for us. Great RB. Great run blocking oline. With extra starting quality oline to bring in for jumbo packages. Good running QB. One high quality WR teams probably want to double.

A new gigantic FB? Giggity!

If they double Cooper, we've got a blocker for every other defender if Dak runs it.
If they don't, can Dak and Cooper beat single coverage on an island for a 3 yard pass? I hope so.

A running QB is a huge advantage at the goal line when you have a great threat from your RB and oline already. We just have to use him. Read option all day long.

Why wouldn't we go 7 oline, Hill at FB, Cooper wide, Dak and Zeke?

Imagine the brutality of that to a defense for 1st and goal. All their DTs would have to come to the field. We've got more depth, size, and quality on our oline than they can bring to the field. 3 or 4 plays in a row. And most of our oline can pull like monsters.
 
Yobwocs said:
You said it yourself. There are multiple ways to interpret his answer. Don't be a baby mattjames2010 , getting caught up with his comments which makes no difference one way or the other at the end of the day.
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made a difference for Dez, and then forced the team to trade a first to rectify
 
Proof said:
made a difference for Dez, and then forced the team to trade a first to rectify
Click to expand...

So let me get this straight. He said that AFTER Dez was cut. Which means those comments made no impact on the fact that he was released. One event came first in the timeline. The one that came after doesn't affect the one that came before. Right?

He said he DIDN'T need a #1 receiver, which means he didn't exactly go begging to Jerry for Cooper. Jerry decides to make the trade anyways because Jerry does what Jerry wants and NOT what Dak's little media comments suggest.

How the hell did it make any difference?
 
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