Jaylon Smith

[LocimusPrime]

If he had not suffered the injury, he could have probably been a really good LB, but not at MLB. Smith is not that LB. If you want to see a player that Smith might have projected to, prior to the injury, watch Derrick Brooks in Tampa. That's the kind of LB that I saw the skills to be. He was never a 43 MLB. He can not do what Hitchens does because Smith can not stack and shed. He is not physical enough and he is not nearly strong enough.

Thank you for pointing that out. I see it the same way

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You should read closer. I said vet LBs like Dansby who will likely be on one year deals. So no, I didn't say anything about any long term deal with Dansby, or any vet LB, for that matter. You injected that all yourself. I'd just be looking at short term fixes while I draft LBs. I'd sure rather pay Dansby to be a MLB here at like $2MM for one year than pay Hitchens $6MM a year for 4 years.

I am not sure what you want me to say. I'd like Hitchens back. I just don't want him back if he's going to make a lot of money. Despite claiming you wouldn't want to pay him big time money, your posts indicate that you are clearly hedging on that because you don't want to hear any alternatives.

So if anything, I am not sure the lack of objectivity is my issue, but rather yours.

Oh, yeah. OK then, a 15 year NFL LB, OK then, my bad. You introduced signing a Vet, not me, and I will add that I never talked about any duration of any contract for a Vet. I never even said we should consider that, so I think it's probably you who is "injecting" things into this conversation. To be clear, once again, this is why I didn't want to discuss contracts. I know I don't know enough about the situation but you are making stuff up as you go. Are you reading what you are posting right now? All of this sounds like a horrible idea to me. You want to go out and get a guy who is supposed to be available to us, not too old but just old enough to be a starter in the NFL for just a year or so and will play for two million bucks and will be healthy enough to be on the field for most of the season. You do realize that, as of 2013, the average salary for an NFL LB (not a starter but just a LB) was 1.8 million a season. You want to take that approach, and depend on an aging Lee and Smith who may never materialize?

You then want to bet on the fact that we will draft other LBs who we develop into starters, all in the space of 2 years? We drafted Wilson, how is that coming along? We drafted Smith, how is that coming along? The funny thing is, we drafted Hitch and he's really the only one who has developed into an NFL starting quality LB and this is the guy we don't want to keep.

OK, yeah, it's probably me.

 

[Sydla]

Oh, yeah. OK then, a 15 year NFL LB, OK then, my bad. You introduced signing a Vet, not me, and I will add that I never talked about any duration of any contract for a Vet. I never even said we should consider that, so I think it's probably you who is "injecting" things into this conversation. To be clear, once again, this is why I didn't want to discuss contracts. I know I don't know enough about the situation but you are making stuff up as you go. Are you reading what you are posting right now? All of this sounds like a horrible idea to me. You want to go out and get a guy who is supposed to be available to us, not too old but just old enough to be a starter in the NFL for just a year or so and will play for two million bucks and will be healthy enough to be on the field for most of the season. You do realize that, as of 2013, the average salary for an NFL LB (not a starter but just a LB) was 1.8 million a season. You want to take that approach, and depend on an aging Lee and Smith who may never materialize?

You then want to bet on the fact that we will draft other LBs who we develop into starters, all in the space of 2 years? We drafted Wilson, how is that coming along? We drafted Smith, how is that coming along? The funny thing is, we drafted Hitch and he's really the only one who has developed into an NFL starting quality LB and this is the guy we don't want to keep.

OK, yeah, it's probably me.

You seemingly hinted at duration of a vet contract when you said this:

In a couple seasons, he aint gonna be doing anything in the NFL. You wanna pay that guy?

What does what he's doing in a couple of seasons matter if I only am looking at a guy like Dansby for a one year fix? I wont be on the hook for his contract if he sucks in 2019 or 2020.

And you have to talk about contracts because it's critical given we have to adhere to a salary cap and have some big contracts on the horizon. So yes, any discussion about whether we want Hitchens back or not ABSOLUTELY has to talk about contracts. It's arguably the single most important factor right now as to whether he should be back or not. You cant have a legitimate conversation about Hitchens and bringing him back without talking about contracts and the cap.

I never said anything about not wanting to keep Hitchens. I've been clear that I just don't think he's worth a big contract if that is what it takes to retain him. If he comes back on a fair contract, great.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yeah, its probably you.

To start, you pretty clearly hinted at duration of a vet contract when you said this:



What does what he's doing in a couple of seasons matter if I only am looking at a guy like Dansby for a one year fix?

And you have to talk about contracts because it's critical given we have to adhere to a salary cap and have some big contracts on the horizon. So yes, any discussion about whether we want Hitchens back or not ABSOLUTELY has to talk about contracts. It's arguably the single most important factor right now as to whether he should be back or not. You cant have a legitimate conversation about Hitchens and bringing him back without talking about contracts and the cap.

I never said anything about not wanting to keep Hitchens. I've been clear that I just don't think he's worth a big contract if that is what it takes to retain him. If he comes back on a fair contract, great.

Arguably, yeah. That's the perfect word alright.

Smith has not shown he can start and Hitch has started and played well. That about sums up my position.

 

[Point-of-the-Star]

I haven't seen it. If we let Hitch walk, we're going to be held hostage by this position yet again. Or we'll have to throw the 19 overall at it and hope we get an walk-in starter there.

This is it simply in a nutshell. I'd give Hitch up to $4.5 - 5 mil / year. 2-3 years. Get the money by getting Dez to take a cut or get cut. Dez is no longer a threat.

It is paramount that we keep our defensive FA's, DLaw and Hitch on this team. Both will be challenges, especially Lawrence. There's a lot on the interwebs about other teams eyeing him . Like Idgit said, we'll just be chasing our tail if we let Hitch slide.

 

[Sydla]

This is it simply in a nutshell. I'd give Hitch up to $4.5 - 5 mil / year. 2-3 years. Get the money by getting Dez to take a cut or get cut. Dez is no longer a threat.

It is paramount that we keep our defensive FA's, DLaw and Hitch on this team. Both will be challenges, especially Lawrence. There's a lot on the interwebs about other teams eyeing him . Like Idgit said, we'll just be chasing our tail if we let Hitch slide.

I think people tend to fall in love with "our" guys, overvalue how good they are and then say, "well we cant let him walk". Cowboys then overpay for the guy, they applaud it and then 2 years from now when talking about some potential cap problems point out that the player in question is a bad contract that needs to go.

Is the team better off with Hitchens? Sure.

Is the team better off with Hitchens making elite ILB money? No.

For awhile people screamed at Jones for making emotional, irrational decisions and that's how they end up with some cap problems. But then turn around that basically think Hitchens is irreplaceable and we have to pretty much bring him back at just about any cost (not suggesting you say this, just in general).

Hitchens is a decent LB that looks better than he is because he plays on a team that has crappy LBs. It would be a bad financial move to sign him to a large long term deal out of panic because they fear our depth chart.

 

[CyberB0b]

If Smith continues to play with that brace and can play like he did toward the end of the season
he'll be a good LB not great, good. To dismiss Smith because he is still wearing a brace is bias.
Why is that you have evidence that he can play well with the brace.

He was only playing two series a game for the last quarter of the season.

 

[the_h0wey]

See, that's kind of an overstatement.

A lot of people aren't saying let Hitchens walk because Smith is great. A lot of people are saying let Hitchens walk if some team gets silly in FA and overpays for him. There's a clear difference there.

Speak of the devil

 

[Sydla]

Speak of the devil

If you can find a post from me stating that we should let Hitchens walk because I think Smith is better, let's see it.

 

[the_h0wey]

If you can find a post from me stating that we should let Hitchens walk because I think Smith is better, let's see it.

 

[Sydla]

That’s what I thought.

 

[waving monkey]

He was only playing two series a game for the last quarter of the season.

there are two things I think are important [1] people consider its his rookie season [2] the healing will continue,even if not 100% he will be a good LB

 

[TwistedL0g1k]

Jaylon is developing into a nice player. Can't forget about his rookie year though, when the Cowboys got exactly nothing from him. A very high pick was used on him. We'll never know how the team would have fared that season if we had drafted someone who actually played in year one. 25% of his initial 4-year contract yielded zilch. Have to average that in. JJ sure loves to get a "bargain" though! The hero GM.

 

[beware_d-ware]

Jaylon is developing into a nice player. Can't forget about his rookie year though, when the Cowboys got exactly nothing from him. A very high pick was used on him. We'll never know how the team would have fared that season if we had drafted someone who actually played in year one. 25% of his initial 4-year contract yielded zilch. Have to average that in. JJ sure loves to get a "bargain" though! The hero GM.

We sort of get that year back when he is an RFA. Either he plays on a fairly cheap contract for us, or we get a draft pick in compensation for him.

 

[Beaker42]

It is one or the other

Either we sign Hitchens and Draft a MIKE at some point Day 3

or we let Hitch walk and draft a MIKE early and sign a cheap vet

Having 4-5 top guys for 2 spots is overkill

Give me Whitehead as a FA and draft a kid on day 2 if a good one is there.

 

[Beaker42]

Jaylon is developing into a nice player. Can't forget about his rookie year though, when the Cowboys got exactly nothing from him. A very high pick was used on him. We'll never know how the team would have fared that season if we had drafted someone who actually played in year one. 25% of his initial 4-year contract yielded zilch. Have to average that in. JJ sure loves to get a "bargain" though! The hero GM.

Getting 3/4th’s of something isn’t a bargain ......4/4th’s is. I wouldn’t even consider this past season his rookie one because he was worse as a Cowboy than he was as a Domer before he got hurt. Kid is still probably only at 70% or so so he’s going to get much better. They knew it was a 2+ yr process when they made the pick.

 

[Section446]

Be hopeful, but you have to just assume he'll never be more than he was this season.

 

[Nightman]

We sort of get that year back when he is an RFA. Either he plays on a fairly cheap contract for us, or we get a draft pick in compensation for him.

It is still up in the air whether DAL gets the 4th year as a RFA.... they said they paid Jaylon his first year even though he spent the season on the NonFootball Injury list.... that might mean the year counts towards FA

Either way I see Jaylon being loyal and giving DAL a deal for taking care of him......same thing LCollins did

 

[Aviano90]

It is still up in the air whether DAL gets the 4th year as a RFA.... they said they paid Jaylon his first year even though he spent the season on the NonFootball Injury list.... that might mean the year counts towards FA

Either way I see Jaylon being loyal and giving DAL a deal for taking care of him......same thing LCollins did

His first contract is for 4 years ~$6.5 million with him counting ~$1.2 million for the 1st year (base salary + 1/4 signing bonus).

If he turns into the great player he was projected to become which would demand a sizeable contract, how much would you reasonably expect the loyalty discount to be? I'd imagine it would be pretty small in the overall scheme of things.

 

[Nightman]

His first contract is for 4 years ~$6.5 million with him counting ~$1.2 million for the 1st year (base salary + 1/4 signing bonus).

If he turns into the great player he was projected to become which would demand a sizeable contract, how much would you reasonably expect the loyalty discount to be? I'd imagine it would be pretty small in the overall scheme of things.

The discount may just be re-signing without taking other offers to boost the cost

It still has to play out the next two years and he has to deliver before we can start talking years and numbers