Jerry on 2008 Draft--Grantland Article

[CowboyGil]

Now I see why Hos left. SOS!

 

[SMCowboy]

The biggest problem with the 2008 draft is that 2 of the top 3 picks including 1 first rounder and one second rounder were used on players who were basically expected to be backup players.

One was even worse than a backup player. It was at RB where starters should really be found in the second and third round and backups can be found in rounds five to seven or even UDFA.

He did the same thing at TE in round 2 for a guy who was mainly here to block. I'm sorry but you can get backup blockers in the 6th or 7th round at TE who can produce as much in the receiving game as Bennett did during his time here playing behind Witten.

I know we talk about depth and BPA but you just can't make mistakes like that in terms of taking marginal role players for your team that high in the draft.

The first and second round picks should be players that you think could be starting by the start of their second year in the league. That is what you should be envisioning. I do think it is fine to groom behind an existing starter but by the second year the idea should be that the starter is gone and the draftee takes over. It is the only way to build a team with youth that can consistently compete with a hard salary cap. You hold onto special players, you keep the other role players when value is reasonable and everyone else gets churned with youth constantly being infused into the lineup because the younger guys are hungrier, will improve and are less beaten up. NFL stands for "Not For Long" but Jerry has never accepted this fact.

So we were sunk before the first day of the draft was over. Jerry blew the chance to rebuild our trenches on a couple of backup skill players who were both not re-signed after their rookie deals were up.

So Carolina spending 2 1st round DP's on co starting RB's in DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart is a bad move. Have you not realized that there are very few feature backs in the NFL anymore. Now a days, most teams use 2 RB's. Felix Jones was not drafted to be a backup, but to be a co starter with Marion Barber.

And when Martellus Bennett was drafted, we ran 2 TE sets most of the time, and he was as much a starter as a FB or 3rd WR is a starter in most offenses. In both Felix Jones and Martellus Bennett's case, a quality 2nd RB or TE was not a nice luxury to have, but essential to the offense. If you can not grasp that, you don't understand football very well.

 

[mmillman]

Carpenter? Sorry, I thought we were talking about 2008. Because we were.

I'm also sorry if your expectation-level for late 1st rounders is unreasonably high. Because it is.

Jones and Jenkins were typical of late 1st rounders. Not big-time "hits" but also not even close to being busts. Decent/solid players who saw time as starters and lasted their entire rookie contracts with the team that drafted them.

And it's not like their careers are over... they'll both be entering their 6th NFL season with their 2nd team, assuming someone picks Jones up.

If you expected much more than that from late 1st rounders, you haven't paid much attention to the rest of the league. Simple as that.

so the expectation has become so low in Dallas now that having three guys remain over those three draft classes is ok? Three number 1 picks are not contributing to the team, bottom line. It isn't like Dallas made up for it by being stellar in the middle or late rounds either.

Your cherry picked example of one draft is not persuasive if your trying to make the point that Dallas has drafted well.

 

[mmillman]

Every single player is still in the league....that draft is far from a bust.

What good does that do us?

The core of your team should be players from that era. It isn't bottom line.
Dallas has had to overspend in free agency because guys like Jenkins and Jones and Barbie didn't pan out.

 

[Nav22]

so the expectation has become so low in Dallas now that having three guys remain over those three draft classes is ok? Three number 1 picks are not contributing to the team, bottom line. It isn't like Dallas made up for it by being stellar in the middle or late rounds either.

Your cherry picked example of one draft is not persuasive if your trying to make the point that Dallas has drafted well.

Re-read the original post. Hell, just re-read the thread's title.

Then tell me that you thought the topic was the Cowboys' cumulative draft successes/failures and not just 2008.

Jones and Jenkins were key contributors for 5 seasons when they were healthy. If you could comprehend the NFL's cumulative success rate when it comes to LATE 1st round picks, you'd know how silly it is to call those guys "busts".

 

[mmillman]

Re-read the original post. Hell, just re-read the thread's title.

Then tell me that you thought the topic was the Cowboys' cumulative draft successes/failures and not just 2008.

Jones and Jenkins were key contributors for 5 seasons when they were healthy. If you could comprehend the NFL's cumulative success rate when it comes to LATE 1st round picks, you'd know how silly it is to call those guys "busts".

Dallas had two first round picks that season and neither will contribute to Dallas this season. Over the five years they were here they ate up a lot of money and spent a lot of time on the bench due to play and injury.

After Jones was picked you have: Mendenhall (easily more productive than Jones), Chris Johnson nuff said, Jackson solid starter, Keller (starter), Jordy Nelson, Royal, Desean Jackson, Calais Campbell, Forte, Ray Rice, Fred Davis. Crap that is Mendenhall, Johnson, Forte and Rice pro bowlers and super bowl contributors, picked shortly after Jones.

yeah that is solid.

 

[Eskimo]

So Carolina spending 2 1st round DP's on co starting RB's in DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart is a bad move. Have you not realized that there are very few feature backs in the NFL anymore. Now a days, most teams use 2 RB's. Felix Jones was not drafted to be a backup, but to be a co starter with Marion Barber.

And when Martellus Bennett was drafted, we ran 2 TE sets most of the time, and he was as much a starter as a FB or 3rd WR is a starter in most offenses. In both Felix Jones and Martellus Bennett's case, a quality 2nd RB or TE was not a nice luxury to have, but essential to the offense. If you can not grasp that, you don't understand football very well.

Yes, it was a mistake for Carolina to have two first round RBs. The problem is that few RBs stay on the field all 3 downs now and that is exactly why they aren't worth first rounders anymore. Look at the last few drafts and look how few RBs were taken compared to 20 years ago when 5 RBs often went in the first round. Non-elite starting RBs are mostly 2nd to 3rd round picks nowadays and that is the transition in the game that has happened over the last 10-15 years.

As far as 2 TE sets, it is true that we ran those sets but it is also true that Bennett was mostly a blocker in those sets and rarely acted as anything more than a dumpoff receiver. If that is what you are tasking the TE to do in your offense then there is no reason to consider drafting one very high as you can get capable blockers much later in the draft. TE is now an impact position but only for those with size, athleticism and ball skills. It is not an impact position for great blockers anymore. If you're going to draft one that high you're looking for a Jimmy Graham or Rob Gronkowski type player who will start and play a prominent role in the passing offense. That has never been the case for our 2nd TE. It was only this past year in December where it seemed like Garrett finally did some things with Hanna in the passing game out of the 2-TE set. It has traditionally been a running formation in this offense with high stress made on inline blocking from the second TE. You have to understand how you utilize players to make sense of whether you should be drafting one in a certain part of the draft. If you run a 3-4 defense it doesn't make sense to draft a 3-tech DT who will sit on the bench because he can't play the nose or DE even if the is a very good football player. He is just in the wrong system to utilize his talents.

Jerry had mostly doomed this draft to failure before these guys even stepped on the field. #2 RBs and #2 TEs are not worth first or second rounders in our offense.

 

[Nova]

What good does that do us?

The core of your team should be players from that era. It isn't bottom line.
Dallas has had to overspend in free agency because guys like Jenkins and Jones and Barbie didn't pan out.

If we had've traded Jenkins last year and Bennett to Cincy for as high as a 2nd or 3rd (IIRC) then we'd be in pretty good shape. Mismanagement after drafting them was the actual problem.



Fun fact: it appears that neither the 49ers nor Patriots have anyone from the 2008 draft remaining on their team.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Why isn't there something over the past 17 years to point at that Jerry has done correctly when running a Pro Franchise, something/anything for him to hang his hat on...... it's really bad when everyone knows the face of the franchise is the problem.

Usually it's outside an organization that sees things running badly, it's obvious to the Fans within this Organization whom want to be supportive that Jerry has drug this Franchise to there and back with terrible results leaving a trail of misery everywhere he treads.

Jerry Jones and anyone who would support him is a complete goofball.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

If the 2008 draft was a bust for us, it was also a bust for 20 other teams in the NFL.

You can live in a world where you should keep 2 or 3 starters from a draft if you want to, but guess what that world you live in is a fantasy land, that has nothing to do with reality....

So be it. There are only a hand full of teams in the NFL who are actually what I would consider being quality organizations. The number 12 is actually more then I had on my list.

Fantasy is you thinking that because we are in a group of 20 lousy teams, it's somehow OK.

Now, after posting what I have, I don't believe that this last is what you believe and I am sure that you don't like it being accredited to you as your position but then again, I don't like those kinds of things either and it is exactly what you did to me in your post above.

 

[ABQcowboyJR]

To call Jenkins a bust isn't realistic. He has made a pro bowl and can play at a top 10 cb level. Will he again? I don't know it depends on how bad is injury is. The Felix pick was a terrible pick. Many on this board knew that there were many better backs left on the board. There were solid contributors throughout that draft and one who seems to be having a decent career (Walden). IMO that isn't good enough. The 2008 draft was not a success nor a complete failure. We failed to draft a superstar, but got contributors.

 

[Nav22]

Dallas had two first round picks that season and neither will contribute to Dallas this season. Over the five years they were here they ate up a lot of money and spent a lot of time on the bench due to play and injury.

After Jones was picked you have: Mendenhall (easily more productive than Jones), Chris Johnson nuff said, Jackson solid starter, Keller (starter), Jordy Nelson, Royal, Desean Jackson, Calais Campbell, Forte, Ray Rice, Fred Davis. Crap that is Mendenhall, Johnson, Forte and Rice pro bowlers and super bowl contributors, picked shortly after Jones.

yeah that is solid.

The same Rashard Mendenhall who just came off a MISERABLE season in Pittsburgh and, like Felix Jones, was let go by the team who drafted him?

Nice hypocrisy.

Nobody suggested Jones and Jenkins turned out to be great picks. So your list of better players picked after them is completely useless.

And I love how you conveniently left out the Antoine Casons, Kentwan Balmers, James Hardys, and Devin Thomases of that draft class.
Nah, you don't have an agenda or anything. :laugh2:

 

[MonsterD]

Also this is a nice article from them on draft positions and busts.

Link

 

[Verdict]

I'm not a fan of Felix or Jenkins AT ALL, but if every first rounder played as well at they did for as long as they did, you would be ok. They didn't set the world on fire, but they did contribute. We just kept Felix around one year too long in my opinion, but that is beside the point.