Jim Harbaugh: Dallas Cowboys will love Jourdan Lewis, Taco Charlton

[Alexander]

Put down the Randy Gregory.

Harbaugh - In only 4 seasons he made the NFC Championship game three times. And made the Super Bowl once.

Garrett = Zero NFC Championship game appearances in 6 and a half seasons.

But Harbaugh never took his players to basketball games. So there.

 

[Fletch]

LOL at ignoring the fact he took a Kaepernick lead team to the Super Bowl to fit your agenda. Garrett hasn't even gotten out of the divisional round, and he's coached here longer than Harbaugh was in SF. How does it taste? Like cinnamon?

That Niners team had a very good defense. What have we had here to counterweight our offense? Nada.

 

[erod]

I have my money on Urban Meyer if we ever go in another direction book it

Jerry will never pay big money to a head coach, and he will never hire a big-name head coach again. He needed Parcells to build a stajum.

Not sure if Stephen can wrestle that thinking away from Jerry, or if he even wants to.

 

[tyke1doe]

What exactly has he done? What did he do while he was a coach?

Get the 49ers to three NFC Championships and a Super Bowl?

And that with a severely limited quarterback?

 

[tyke1doe]

He "almost won a super bowl" with an offense the NFL didn't figure out until the following year. Which was the point I made in my last comment, now moving on...

"And lol at thinking Alex Smith is a true franchise guy"

Alex Smith since 2011

13-3
6-2-1
11-5
9-7
11-5
12-4

Yeah, I'm going to say he's a franchise guy.

As for what Garrett has done - I don't know, let's see, rebuild an offensive line and make it the leagues best. Get rid of a franchise QB, just to find what many of you believe to be another franchise guy in the fourth round.

And LOL an opinion piece

The simple fact is: the decision to remove Smith and start Kap was Harbaugh's move. There was players in the locker room against him. There was an internal power struggle. And this "great coach" instead of finding another team in the NFL, he ran back to college.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...-harbaugh-clinically-insane-article-1.2192980

“He does a great job of giving you that spark, that initial boom,” 49ers guard Alex Boone said in his "Real Sports" interview. “But after a while, you just want to kick his a--. . . . He just keeps pushing you, and you’re like, ‘Dude, we got over the mountain. Stop. Let go.’ He kind of wore out his welcome."

"“I think he just pushed guys too far. He wanted too much, demanded too much, expected too much. You know, ‘We gotta go out and do this. We gotta go out and do this. We gotta go out and do this.’ And you’d be like, ‘This guy might be clinically insane. He’s crazy.’ "

By the way, Boone was defending Harbaugh at the time of the rumors that Jim was losing the locker room. His stance changed once he was no longer the coach.

Stop propping up mediocrity. And I'm not even the biggest Garrett fan, which says a lot about Harbaugh. I like team builders, not destroyers.

In the four seasons Harbaugh was on the job in San Francisco, the 49ers were 44-19, went to three straight NFC Championship Games and a Super Bowl and never had a losing season.

I'll take "Clinically Insane" for a $1000, Alex.

 

[tyke1doe]

Again, he got to the Super Bowl, and lost, during the read option year. It was a gimmicky offense defenses didn't figure out. The offense got consistently worse until they went 8-8 and he was booted.

The wildcat was gimmicky too. The Dolphins even beat the pants off the Patriots running it. But the wildcat offense didn't take any team to the Super Bowl, even though many teams used it as a variation offense.
It's not just the offense; it's the coach too.

Garrett has been a coach longer? Yeah, he has - which he has steadily built one of the stronger offenses in the league. Harbaugh took over a team with a lot of great players, and in 4 years, completely dismantled that and is now out of the league.

But those players never put it together until he became coach.

In the eight seasons before Harbaugh arrived in 2011, the 49ers hadn’t had a single winning season and were a cumulative 46-82. In the two seasons since he was let go, the 49ers are 7-25. In the four seasons Harbaugh was on the job in San Francisco, the 49ers were 44-19, went to three straight NFC Championship Games and a Super Bowl and never had a losing season.

One is a team builder, the other is a destroyer. Actually around 2014, I saw a lot of 49er fans calling him "Wreck-it-Ralph"

So what you'd rather have is a coach who gets along with his players but has no championship or Super Bowl appearances rather than one who ruffles feathers, is eccentric but goes to three straight conference championships and one Super Bowl?
And let's assume Jason Garrett builds teams and Harbaugh destroys teams. Who accomplished more with less? It's clear it's Harbaugh. At least Harbaugh gave his team an advantage and was able to galvanize them into a Super Bowl contender.
By the way, that's why I say Garrett has to have a complete team full of blue-chip talent. Because he really doesn't give us a coaching advantage. Harbaugh was able to seize a "gimmicky" offense and ride it to a Super Bowl. We have the best running back in the game, one of the best tight ends, one of the best receivers both in 2014 and 2016, and we STILL can't get out of the divisional round.

Don't try comparing a guy who couldn't hang for 4 years in the league for a guy who has been a HC since 2011 and an OC since 2007. Someone losing a Super Bowl with a gimmicky flash in the pan offense is not an achievement.

But getting there is an achievement. And he did it in his FOUR YEARS and got to the NFC Championship THREE OF THOSE YEARS!
And you say that's not an achievement?

And I'm not a huge Garrett fan, I think he's an okay coach. I think Harbaugh was a cancer and ran a franchise into the ground. That is not me saying 49ers management didn't play a part either, they are trash as well.

It seems based on the record, 49ers management did more to run that team into the ground than Harbaugh. He's an unorthodox cat, I wouldn't dispute that. But he elevated that San Francisco team. I don't think there's any disputing that.

 

[tyke1doe]

Anyone else think Harbough would leave Michigan for a chance to coach the Dallas Cowboys?

No. Not until he wins a National Championship. He wants to be like Nick Saban.

 

[tyke1doe]

Personally, if we do fire Garrett.... I hope we can get someone better than Harbaugh. We deserve better. A lot, lot, lot better.

But as for the thread... what do you expect Harbaugh to say publically? He thinks we did swell taking two of his higher profile players? I am shocked. Utterly shocked.

Harbaugh and Jerry Jones couldn't coexist on the same team.
Harbaugh wants too much of the limelight. And everyone knows that on the Cowboys, that's Jerry's domain.

 

[tyke1doe]

Agreed. The real problem now for the hardnose coaches is all the MONEY. Players make so much the coaches have very little leverage to push them or push them around. Its a different league now. There were plenty of tough...A-Hole type coaches in the old days. In recent years, l thought the Tuna fell in the A-Hole category...he was the last of that breed who was successful.

Jimmy Johnson.

 

[tyke1doe]

But Harbaugh never took his players to basketball games. So there.

 

[mattjames2010]

The wildcat was gimmicky too. The Dolphins even beat the pants off the Patriots running it. But the wildcat offense didn't take any team to the Super Bowl, even though many teams used it as a variation offense.
It's not just the offense; it's the coach too.


But those players never put it together until he became coach.



So what you'd rather have is a coach who gets along with his players but has no championship or Super Bowl appearances rather than one who ruffles feathers, is eccentric but goes to three straight conference championships and one Super Bowl?
And let's assume Jason Garrett builds teams and Harbaugh destroys teams. Who accomplished more with less? It's clear it's Harbaugh. At least Harbaugh gave his team an advantage and was able to galvanize them into a Super Bowl contender.
By the way, that's why I say Garrett has to have a complete team full of blue-chip talent. Because he really doesn't give us a coaching advantage. Harbaugh was able to seize a "gimmicky" offense and ride it to a Super Bowl. We have the best running back in the game, one of the best tight ends, one of the best receivers both in 2014 and 2016, and we STILL can't get out of the divisional round.


But getting there is an achievement. And he did it in his FOUR YEARS and got to the NFC Championship THREE OF THOSE YEARS!
And you say that's not an achievement?


It seems based on the record, 49ers management did more to run that team into the ground than Harbaugh. He's an unorthodox cat, I wouldn't dispute that. But he elevated that San Francisco team. I don't think there's any disputing that.

- Gimmicky offense, which you admit. That was the year he got to the Super Bowl.
- Most outspoken player, one who defended Harbaugh, also stated he was too much and wore out his welcome
- Demanded too much power over rosters and practically wanted to be the GM (Yes, upper management also had a part to play in the back and forth)
- Decided to remove a franchise QB for a mediocre QB (That middle of the road QB you are talking about, yeah, that was Harbaugh's guy)

You can bring up his record, the championship, and him being a loser in the Super Bowl (That's not an accomplishment), history doesn't remember the losers. Like Boone said, he gives teams the initial burst, then he wears a team down and wears out his welcome. This is the definition of a locker room cancer, this is exactly how it is with players as well. You get to see those "accomplishments" from Harbaugh before he bounced - that team was on a fast decline and he was part of it.

I am not saying to not replace Garrett, I am saying not to replace Garrett with Harbaugh. It's bad enough bringing in cancer players, it's another thing to have one like Harbaugh who can't play nice with management and has players who dislike him.

Harbaugh is better fit for college - a lot of temporary players, no franchise guys he can wear out his welcome with. His personality is fit there and not the NFL - and seeing as how he was 4 years in the NFL before he hit the road as an HC, I think the evidence is on my side.

If you guys want short-lived success - I'm sure Harbaugh will give our team a spark for a couple years before things start to fall apart. Again, I like longstanding success and team building, even if this means having someone who more of a talent evaluator at HC rather than a "rah-rah" guy like Harbaugh.

If I want to talk about someone who has never won a Super Bowl but has championships and a Super Bowl appearance under his belt, it would be Andy Reid (Which funnily enough, I see people criticizing here) - he's a team builder, has a good relationship with players and management - this is a guy you can put down as a loser, like Harbaugh, but at least you can point to a lot of things he has succeeded at in terms of team building and relationships.

 

[tyke1doe]

- Gimmicky offense, which you admit. That was the year he got to the Super Bowl.
- Most outspoken player, one who defended Harbaugh, also stated he was too much and wore out his welcome
- Demanded too much power over rosters and practically wanted to be the GM (Yes, upper management also had a part to play in the back and forth)
- Decided to remove a franchise QB for a mediocre QB (That middle of the road QB you are talking about, yeah, that was Harbaugh's guy)

So? None of those points diminishes what he did getting the Niners to three NFC Championship with one appearance in the Super Bowl.

You can bring up his record, the championship, and him being a loser in the Super Bowl (That's not an accomplishment), history doesn't remember the losers.

Comparing a Super-Bowl winning coach to a Super-Bowl losing coach, sure.
Comparing a Super-Bowl losing coach to a coach with no Super Bowl appearances, the former trumps the latter.

Like Boone said, he gives teams the initial burst, then he wears a team down and wears out his welcome.

Jimmy Johnson did the same thing. Just saying.

This is the definition of a locker room cancer, this is exactly how it is with players as well. You get to see those "accomplishments" from Harbaugh before he bounced - that team was on a fast decline and he was part of it.

But seeing how the team didn't do that well after he left and seeing how the team didn't do well before he arrived, I'd place that more on the organization.

I am not saying to not replace Garrett, I am saying not to replace Garrett with Harbaugh. It's bad enough bringing in cancer players, it's another thing to have one like Harbaugh who can't play nice with management and has players who dislike him.

Well, I don't disagree with you there. There aren't that many coaches who could coexist with Jerry. There aren't that many GMs who can coexist with Harbaugh. But I don't think that means he's not a very good coach. He's just a difficult good coach to work with.

Harbaugh is better fit for college - a lot of temporary players, no franchise guys he can wear out his welcome with. His personality is fit there and not the NFL - and seeing as how he was 4 years in the NFL before he hit the road as an HC, I think the evidence is on my side.

I don't disagree. He is quirky.

If you guys want short-lived success - I'm sure Harbaugh will give our team a spark for a couple years before things start to fall apart. Again, I like longstanding success and team building, even if this means having someone who more of a talent evaluator at HC rather than a "rah-rah" guy like Harbaugh.

Fair enough.

If I want to talk about someone who has never won a Super Bowl but has championships and a Super Bowl appearance under his belt, it would be Andy Reid (Which funnily enough, I see people criticizing here) - he's a team builder, has a good relationship with players and management - this is a guy you can put down as a loser, like Harbaugh, but at least you can point to a lot of things he has succeeded at in terms of team building and relationships.

My points were more I think Harbaugh is a better coach than Garrett. I wouldn't say he's more likable than Garrett.
I think I'd go with Harbaugh over Reid even. For all Reid's coaching success, it took him a longer time to punch through to the Super Bowl than Harbaugh. However, Harbaugh was only on the NFL coaching stage for four years, so he doesn't have the longevity you can compare with Reid's longevity.

 

[mattjames2010]

So? None of those points diminishes what he did getting the Niners to three NFC Championship with one appearance in the Super Bowl.


Comparing a Super-Bowl winning coach to a Super-Bowl losing coach, sure.
Comparing a Super-Bowl losing coach to a coach with no Super Bowl appearances, the former trumps the latter.


Jimmy Johnson did the same thing. Just saying.


But seeing how the team didn't do that well after he left and seeing how the team didn't do well before he arrived, I'd place that more on the organization.



Well, I don't disagree with you there. There aren't that many coaches who could coexist with Jerry. There aren't that many GMs who can coexist with Harbaugh. But I don't think that means he's not a very good coach. He's just a difficult good coach to work with.



I don't disagree. He is quirky.



Fair enough.



My points were more I think Harbaugh is a better coach than Garrett. I wouldn't say he's more likable than Garrett.
I think I'd go with Harbaugh over Reid even. For all Reid's coaching success, it took him a longer time to punch through to the Super Bowl than Harbaugh. However, Harbaugh was only on the NFL coaching stage for four years, so he doesn't have the longevity you can compare with Reid's longevity.

It very much does diminish his Super Bowl appearance season - He opted for a short-lived successful offense, one that was a flash in the pan in the history of the NFL. This goes back to my issue with him, there is no long sustaining success with him.

This very much reminds me of Rex Ryan, in 2009 and 2010, he takes a team with lackluster offensive talent and good defensive talent and finds his way to two championships. The difference here is, you got to see the fallout under Rex Ryan as a coach, he stuck around to watch that team fall apart under him while Harbaugh declined extensions and went back to college. They went from a 12-4 team and a championship appearance to an 8-8 on the verge of bottoming out.

As for Jimmy Johnson, yeah Jerry and Jimmy certainly had their issues. But Jimmy also built his team, had one of the greatest trades of all time and had a few great drafts as well. He was a team builder, but as Jimmy admitted himself on Fox, he's a gypsy and doesn't like to stay in one place too long.

Even if I would concede and say Harbaugh is a great coach, he simply wouldn't be a good fit here. Him going to Stephen and Jerry asking for, within the contract, full roster control would start a feud. It's just not a good pairing.

 

[Nova]

I'd take Harbough over Garrett RIGHT NOW. He'd come in and ha e more playoff success than Garrett would almost immediately.

I wouldn't, Harbaugh wouldn't work well with Jerry and ultimately his approach is grating and can wear on players quickly.