JJT: Cowboys offense no juggernaut

[Hoofbite]

Just to put this to bed. Every team has it's own "best game," and every team's numbers suffer when that game isn't counted.

These are all the offenses that averaged 2+ points per drive (bold), along with their season-high game in points per drive.

1 Den 2.83 vs Phi: 45 points/9 drives (5.0)
2 SD 2.33 vs NYG: 37 points/9 drives (4.1)
3 NO 2.29 vs Dal: 49 points/9 drives (5.4)
4 Dal 2.18 vs Den: 48 points/11 drives (4.4)
5 Chi 2.16 vs Dal: 45 points/8 drives (5.6)
6 GB 2.15 at Min 37 points/8 drives (4.6)
7 Phi 2.12 vs Chi 45 points/10 drives (4.5)
8 Sea 2.12 vs Jac 45 points/13 drive (3.5)
9 NE 2.10 vs Pit: 55 points 13 drives (4.2)

Here are the rankings when you take out that game.
1 Den 2.70
2 SD 2.23
3 NO 2.13
4 Dal 2.04
5 GB 2.04
6 Sea 2.02
7 Chi 2.00
8 Phi 1.99
9 NE 1.95

Every team's number goes down .10 -.16 of a point per drive. With the Denver game included, Dallas ranks 4th, hundredths of a point ahead of the Bears. Without it, Dallas still ranks 4th, thousandths of a point ahead of the Packers.

Ever heard of this site?

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/

A couple of their stats seem like things you may have posted before. I was looking for a specific stat and found the site just this afternoon. Pretty interesting stuff and a lot of data. Don't know how accurate any of it is but seems like they put a lot of work into their data so I'd imagine they're taking enough effort to collect it appropriately.

 

[big dog cowboy]

These are all the offenses that averaged 2+ points per drive (bold), along with their season-high game in points per drive.

1 Den 2.83 vs Phi: 45 points/9 drives (5.0)
2 SD 2.33 vs NYG: 37 points/9 drives (4.1)
3 NO 2.29 vs Dal: 49 points/9 drives (5.4)
4 Dal 2.18 vs Den: 48 points/11 drives (4.4)
5 Chi 2.16 vs Dal: 45 points/8 drives (5.6)
6 GB 2.15 at Min 37 points/8 drives (4.6)
7 Phi 2.12 vs Chi 45 points/10 drives (4.5)
8 Sea 2.12 vs Jac 45 points/13 drive (3.5)
9 NE 2.10 vs Pit: 55 points 13 drives (4.2)

Here are the rankings when you take out that game.
1 Den 2.70
2 SD 2.23
3 NO 2.13
4 Dal 2.04
5 GB 2.04
6 Sea 2.02
7 Chi 2.00
8 Phi 1.99
9 NE 1.95

Every team's number goes down .10 -.16 of a point per drive. With the Denver game included, Dallas ranks 4th, hundredths of a point ahead of the Bears. Without it, Dallas still ranks 4th, thousandths of a point ahead of the Packers.

Please keep cranking posts like this out. Simply priceless.

 

[Hoofbite]

The Dallas offense was both hurt and helped by the defense.

Hurt in that the defense couldn't get off the field at times and allowed the opposition to string together long drives. On offense however, Dallas was near the bottom in 3rd down conversion percentage and it looks like they may have had the fewest number of total conversions in the NFL. The end result is being dead last in terms of total offensive plays and near the bottom in TOP.

The defense (and STs) helped the offense by giving them a number of short drives to work with. Dallas had 4 drives start inside the opponents 5 yard line in 2013. That's unreal. For comparison's sake, that's the same number of such possessions that Dallas was gifted over the span of 2009 to 2012.

They also lead the league in terms of drives that started inside the opponents Redzone. They had 8 of those drives.

I think the same could said of the defense as well as they were both hurt and helped by the offense. The offense scored enough to give them a cushion but failed at times to take care of it's own business and left the outcome of the games on a beat up and worn down group of street players. The Detroit game is a perfect example and the Green Bay game as well.

To it's credit the offense was very good in the Redzone and made the most out of the chances it was given because of an overall improved Redzone performance. They also had 1/3rd less turnovers than they did in 2012.

The efficiency was much, much better but it came with about 5-6 quarters less of offensive snaps when compared to 2011 and 2012.

 

[percyhoward]

Ever heard of this site?

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/

A couple of their stats seem like things you may have posted before. I was looking for a specific stat and found the site just this afternoon. Pretty interesting stuff and a lot of data. Don't know how accurate any of it is but seems like they put a lot of work into their data so I'd imagine they're taking enough effort to collect it appropriately.

It's a comprehensive site, that's for sure. I was using it to get teams' turnover differentials this year. I use Pro Football Reference for defensive pass rating, etc. and for their team/game/player finder tool, Pro Football Focus for targets and pass ratings, Football Outsiders for drive stats, Cold Hard Facts for pass rating differential, Advanced NFL Stats for win probability and EPA.

It's also good to know which stats correlate to winning, because there are a lot of them out there, but most aren't that meaningful. The "traditional" stats, especially yards, don't mean a whole lot when it comes to winning games. Pass rating is probably the best combination of a well-known stat that actually means something. You hear a lot more about yards, completion percentage, time of possession, and 3rd-down percentage than you do points per drive, but none of them even comes close to PPD where winning is concerned.

 

[17yearsandcounting]

I dont see why blame has to be assigned. If the offense could close games, the Cowboys would be in the playoffs. If the defense were only slightly horrible instead of historically horrible this team makes the playoffs.

2013 stunk. A wasted year. Neither side of the ball escapes the fart cloud.

 

[Wood]

I think his point is this offense wasn't clutch this year. I would add to that...it hasn't been clutch for long time.

 

[rwalters31]

What the hell are you talking about? This is about the 2013 offense, not 2012. The only thing in your ramblings that relates to 2013 is the name Waters. In 2013 Redzone scoring was damn good, but yardage was lacking.

What the hell are you talking about? This is about the 2013 offense, not 2012. The only thing in your ramblings that relates to 2013 is the name Waters. In 2013 Redzone scoring was damn good, but yardage was lacking.

OK, lets talk Juggernauts

Touchdowns

1


DenverBroncos

55

2

New OrleansSaints

39

3

CincinnatiBengals

33

3

DallasCowboys


33



Juggernauts

Rushing

Rk

Team

Yds/G

TD

1

San Francisco 49ers

151.3

3

2

Kansas City Chiefs

150.0

1

3

New England Patriots

149.0

7

4

New Orleans Saints

146.5

2

5

Seattle Seahawks

144.5

3

6

San Diego Chargers

130.5

2

7

Green Bay Packers

124.0

1

8

Denver Broncos

120.0

1

9

Cincinnati Bengals

113.0

0

10

Carolina Panthers

93.0

0

11

Indianapolis Colts

84.5

1

12

Philadelphia Eagles

80.0

1

As you can see, it takes running to be a Juggernaut. Look at the list above and teams that made it to the playoffs. I expect an apology and my definition stands. By the way look up the redzone and third down *** with 5 yard plays.

 

[rwalters31]

Overall we were 3rd in the league. For what that is worth.

I post this elsewhere

OK, lets talk Juggernauts

Touchdowns

1


DenverBroncos

55

2

New OrleansSaints

39

3

CincinnatiBengals

33

3

DallasCowboys


33



Juggernauts


Rushing

Rk

Team

Yds/G

TD

1

San Francisco 49ers

151.3

3

2

Kansas City Chiefs

150.0

1

3

New England Patriots

149.0

7

4

New Orleans Saints

146.5

2

5

Seattle Seahawks

144.5

3

6

San Diego Chargers

130.5

2

7

Green Bay Packers

124.0

1

8

Denver Broncos

120.0

1

9

Cincinnati Bengals

113.0

0

10

Carolina Panthers

93.0

0

11

Indianapolis Colts

84.5

1

12

Philadelphia Eagles

80.0

1

As you can see, it takes running to be a Juggernaut. Look at the list above and teams that made it to the playoffs. I expect an apology and my definition stands. By the way look up the redzone and third down *** with 5 yard plays.

 

[Idgit]

I just can't understand how threads like this can exist, and people still just choose what they want to believe for no other reason than they want to believe it. There just is no rational explanation. I don't know whether to laugh, or weep for my fellow Cowboy fans when I read through some of these posts.

 

[Kevinicus]

OK, lets talk Juggernauts

Touchdowns

1


DenverBroncos

55

2

New OrleansSaints

39

3

CincinnatiBengals

33

3

DallasCowboys


33



Juggernauts

Rushing

Rk

Team

Yds/G

TD

1

San Francisco 49ers

151.3

3

2

Kansas City Chiefs

150.0

1

3

New England Patriots

149.0

7

4

New Orleans Saints

146.5

2

5

Seattle Seahawks

144.5

3

6

San Diego Chargers

130.5

2

7

Green Bay Packers

124.0

1

8

Denver Broncos

120.0

1

9

Cincinnati Bengals

113.0

0

10

Carolina Panthers

93.0

0

11

Indianapolis Colts

84.5

1

12

Philadelphia Eagles

80.0

1

As you can see, it takes running to be a Juggernaut. Look at the list above and teams that made it to the playoffs. I expect an apology and my definition stands. By the way look up the redzone and third down *** with 5 yard plays.

I didn't say they were juggernauts, but you spouted crap about them moving the ball between the 20's well and being bad in the redzone when if anything the opposite is true, and none of what you just posted has anything to do with it.

 

[manster4ever]

JJT completely misses the point.

Even with an average defense, the offense would have been good enough to win 2 or 3 more games.

They didn't have to be a juggnaut.

geez, thanks JJT....told us NOTHING we didn't already know....what a joke

 

[ShiningStar]

Dallas wasnt as good as advertised. .and thats all the stats can back up.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I expect an apology

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

 

[AdamJT13]

Defensive scores and turnovers combined with a fluke game against Denver skew the stat a little bit.

No, that is ONLY offensive scoring. Defensive scores and turnovers don't have anything to do with it.

And as percy already showed, the Denver game doesn't skew our stat any more than other teams' "fluke" games skew theirs.

 

[TwoDeep3]

I just can't understand how threads like this can exist, and people still just choose what they want to believe for no other reason than they want to believe it. There just is no rational explanation. I don't know whether to laugh, or weep for my fellow Cowboy fans when I read through some of these posts.

Because group think doesn't appeal to some. And numbers on a page don't have all the answers.

But save your tears. In the final analysis, no matter what the page says, the games will be decided by who calls the shots.

Enter Jerry, stage left.

 

[TrailBlazer]

I just can't understand how threads like this can exist, and people still just choose what they want to believe for no other reason than they want to believe it. There just is no rational explanation. I don't know whether to laugh, or weep for my fellow Cowboy fans when I read through some of these posts.

You don't understand how threads like this can exist? I'll try to break it down for you. It was an article regarding the cowboys on ESPN.

Other ppl have different opinions. That's not hard to understand. I believe what I believe bc I've watched every game for many many years. I know this team plays up and down to their competition. The offense was too inconsistent. The defense was the main problem in 2013, but the offense was downright awful at times too. Remember that 0-16 streak on 3rd down conversions? Yeah, that happened. Put the stat sheet down and watch the games. This was not an elite offense. Put an average defense on this team and were still not legit contenders for a SB. The offense would still be inconsistent, play down to conpetition, and would fail to come through when we need it most.

Defense was not our ONLY issue in 2013. See 0-16 on 3rd downs spanning 3 games is just flat out RIDICULOUS.

 

[khiladi]

Told you so... Last season, Garrett spoke about the defense having to do better in providing the offense with TOs to capitalize. They gave them over ten plus more opportunities than two years ago with like 3 games to play. Now, these jokes are blaming it on the defense and telling us the offense was not the problem, the defense was.

 

[khiladi]

Anecdote is not data. I can find drives like this for any team in the league.

That would be pretty bad, if he hadn't completely made it up. In fairness, he didn't say that we had 21 takeaways on the opponent's side of the field. He said the defense gave the offense the ball on that side of the field 21 times. Either way, the numbers don't add up.

The Cowboys started 23 drives on the opponent's side of the field. They break down as follows:
Thanks to the defense (14):
5 interceptions.
6 fumbles.
3 turnovers on downs.

Thanks to special teams (7):
2 muffed punts.
1 blocked FG.
2 long kick returns.
2 long punt returns.

Thanks to the game situation (2):
2 failed onside kicks.

On 6 of these drives, the Cowboys did not try to score a TD. Four kneeldowns, one drive that started with 2 minutes left in the game and a 15-point lead, and the infamous run-out-the-clock-oops-Tyron-Smith-holding-penalty drive against Detroit. That leaves 17. On those 17 drives, they scored 8 TDs (47%). That's 8 TDs, not 7.

So, is that good or bad? Looking at all drives league-wide that started in opponent's territory and didn't finish with kneeldowns, we find that 39.2% of those drives ended with TDs. The Cowboys were at 42% (8 out of 19), 12th-best in the league. Not great, but not "ridiculous", as JJT claims. In fact, they did better than these numbers suggest. The Cowboys never turned it over on one of these drives; league-wide, teams turned it over 7.5% of the time.

So our offense was actually pretty good when they got the ball on the opponent's side of the field and tried to score. And if they were closer to league average in these situations, well, that means they were a lot better than league average when they had to drive a long way for a TD. JJT, as is so often the case, is completely wrong.

Let us assume your calculations are correct, do do field goals count as points per possession? BTW, percentages across the league doesn't mean that much, especially when talking about teams that create 12 TOs compared to 20 plus... They obscure reality...

 

[khiladi]

We had a stretch where we were absurdly bad on 3rd and long. We moved Wade to the top of the booth. Some claim JG took the play calling back. We had claims that Romo was changing the play calling, including not throwing the ball enough to Dez.

Got to love the infatuation with stats...

 

[khiladi]

One can argue that a defensive TO in the oppositions territory within field goal range doesn't end in scoring by the defense or shouldn't be attributed to the defense, cause the field goal kicker still has to kick the ball, but yeah....