Kelvin Joseph vs j horn

[The Realist]

I like Horn a little better because he has more experience playing. He made big strides in his technique from 2019 to 2020. Joseph really only has 1 year that he’s played and we have yet to see his big technique improvement… though that should come, just already in the NFL.

Physically speaking, there isn’t much separating the two, IMO. Horn is a little more physical and aggressive while Joseph just looked more smooth and athletic in coverage. Honestly, I think Joseph is a little physically superior of the two. He has near ideal corner athleticism.

So would I draft Joseph over Horn, straight up? No, I wouldn’t. Horn is very good physically and has already shown great improvement while it is a projection with Joseph. Also, Horn was never suspended from his team and then transferred. So some questions that are there for Joseph simply aren’t there for Horn.

You’d have to take Horn over Joseph at this point.

However, one of the things that people who didn’t like the Joseph pick say is that he quit on two teams. One of course, is LSU. After being suspended he transferred. The second they say is that near the end of Kentucky’s 2020 season Joseph opted out of the last game to get ready for the NFL. So, he quit on two teams.

Horn though did the same thing as the second one. He opted out of the last couple of South Carolina games in 2020 to focus on getting ready for the draft. If you knock Joseph for that, you got to knock Horn as well.

Overall physically though, I think that Joseph is a tad better. Quicker, smoother footwork, a little more speed and quickness, and better hands catching the ball.

As I mentioned above, Horn made a lot of progress between his 2019 and 2020 seasons. If Joseph makes the same progress technically between his first season at Kentucky and his second season in Dallas, then Joseph could absolutely be the better player of the two by the end of this season. His ceiling is a little higher and his current play has more growth room than Horn’s who is more polished.

I’ll tell you what I do know. If you give me these two scenarios, and ask me which I’d rather have:

1st - Parsons
2nd - Joseph

or

1sr - Horn
2nd - Bolton

I’d take Parsons/Joseph all day long over the other two. Joseph is waaay closer to Horn than Bolton is to Parsons, who is just a physical marvel.

Fun fact: The only reason Horn went top 10 is because of Farley’s back. Nobody had Horn top 10 prior to that.

 

[quickccc]

the point that Joseph has far less game experience and far short of posiional technical for CB than Joe Horn Jr ,..and yet still managed to
more than hold his own vs Bama top flight Heisman winner Dovontae Smith not only had to be impressive but
it goes to show us how much pure natural physical ability and potential he may have over even Horn.

i've heard some even think Joseph has more pure ability and potential already than even Trevon Diggs.

 

[DanA]

the point that Joseph has far less game experience and far short of posiional technical for CB than Joe Horn Jr ,..and yet still managed to more than hold his own vs Bama top flight Heisman winner Dovontae Smith not only had to be impressive but it goes to show us how much pure natural physical ability and potential he may have over even Horn.

i've heard some even think Joseph has more pure ability and potential already than even Trevon Diggs.

I've seen this hyped but what was the sample size? My recollection was that it was about 5 plays total with one obviously being the interception. Don't get me wrong, I sat up in my chair a noticed, but the counter to that is the woefully display on Pitts crossing route.....burn't toast and really didn't put up a fight on the TD.

The truth is that the body of Horn's work showed a player with a different level of technique to Joseph that was developing game by game. And with Surtain, that high level technique was there from the start, and never really faltered. Joseph is an athlete, he was productive in a small sample size, and showed ball skills, but there was nowhere near the refinement we saw with Horn/Surtain.

People talk about Deion's speed but his ability to see the field, route recognition, and technique were just as much a part of what made him special. He was 10/10 at pretty much everything except for perhaps tackling.

 

[quickccc]

I've seen this hyped but what was the sample size? My recollection was that it was about 5 plays total with one obviously being the interception. Don't get me wrong, I sat up in my chair a noticed, but the counter to that is the woefully display on Pitts crossing route.....burn't toast and really didn't put up a fight on the TD.

The truth is that the body of Horn's work showed a player with a different level of technique to Joseph that was developing game by game. And with Surtain, that high level technique was there from the start, and never really faltered. Joseph is an athlete, he was productive in a small sample size, and showed ball skills, but there was nowhere near the refinement we saw with Horn/Surtain.

People talk about Deion's speed but his ability to see the field, route recognition, and technique were just as much a part of what made him special. He was 10/10 at pretty much everything except for perhaps tackling.

While you’re referring to the five plays, what about the plays where Joseph is likely blanketing Bama WRs that wont show up on our television,.. than it would All 22 or coaches game tape ?

I’d have to see the Pitt TD play you’re talking about, if it’s what I imagine being much like Israel S. play vs Pitts too ( looking totally give up- no resistance) … then that would have to tell me how much was mental breakdown (someone else’s assignment ?) more than it a lack of competitiveness.
Supposedly one of the flaws that was made about Joseph that may have factored in him slipping into the first round was inconsistencies.

I won’t get into Horn Joseph Surtain comparisons any more than I’ve said previously about those aforementioned CBs, as when it involves more games played, more game experience, that also involves the skill set, I expect Horn and Surtain to be more

But when medical risk Caleb Farley and Eric Stokes Georgia are picked ahead of Joseph, that tends to have me wondering if character suspicions played a part of Joseph being passed over.

In Joseph, we know we're not dealing with a perfect prospect, but there are far more pluses and reasons to be optimistic about him, his physical tools, skill set and long term potential
than they are minuses, ,just imho.

 

[Future]

Horn went early and Joseph slipped a little bit. There's very little gap.

Joseph at 44 is far, far better value than Horn at 8.

 

[blueblood70]

don't care one fact is,

im betting Surtain was our actual target over them all , but of we would have taken Surtain/Horn, who are #2 target, who do we end up with..? at this point io like the combo Parsons at 12 with a 3rd for trade down and get KJ, in the end how do they play in the NFl is al that matters.

this ? is premature and hust because players taken high doesnt make him a better nfl prospect..top 10 busts are far kore likely over expectations etc..

I liked His aggressive nature and would have welcomed him here, however hes very grabby physical player and the nfl one can you get that hand on an NFL WR at the line and two when you do how likely is it called a PI? a lot more.

Surtain to me was better NFl prospect as he can play coverage without being so handsy...

a lot like Scandrick who was very good until the refs continued to call PIs to a point where Scandrick backed off and then wasn't as good in open space.. KJ might be better in more off coverage then make up speed once he reads the play..

hes ahs nit of Surtain and Horn in him..

 

[Redball Express]

How gib is the gap really? Joseph. Has a wingspan of 77 1/8 Horn 77 1/4. Arm length is close as well, Horn has a higher vertical but Joseph has more speed. Horn 6’0 & change. Joseph 5’11 1/2z you can improve vertical if you work on it. They’re both young. With potential. I wanted Horn but I’m happy with Joseph. What are your thoughts?

Everything I have read about this pick has been good. If he stays injury free..the
Sky is the limit. His speed is mind blowing if you ask me. Can he play offense at all.? I would just throw deep in patterns and split the defense trying to cover him.

Hello Mr.Moore..hint hint.

 

[Bowdown27]

Joseph wears the star, nothing else matters brother. Bossman Fat is a killer and the Grind Dont Stop. I will take the combo of Parsons and Joseph all day long.

I’m with you. Parsons and Joseph show the change in philosophy and aggressiveness on the field. Add cox and few other guys to the mix this could be one of the memorable drafts for us.

 

[silver]

I was all about Jaycee Horn until he went with #8...no thanks..gross

I hate the new numbers rules. Looks like a junior league.