Kneejerk rookie negativity thread

[igtmfo]

I love the idea of Ciskowski "volume drafting" in theory and want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I would rather have a dozen second-day draft picks than say trading mostly "up" to get two higher picks the first day, then only three picks on the second day or something.

I'm a positive person but I'm going to just concentrate on the negativity here. Whatever I don't say bad about them, then they're "all right."

Just reading all the blogs and observations on this board/DMN/Smoaky/Grizz etc. ... here goes

a) Mickens. His outlook is bad. Slow. OK, he's jumped some short outs successfully (he had a reputation for gambling at Cinn., I read in a draft report that it might have been due to his lack of speed) ... and has made a few interceptions in practice in camp so far, got some raves for that. Gecko sticky pads for hands. He does well defending guys on underneath stuff, quick outs, he has some quickness. ...

But he's been utterly toasted mostly. Once a receiver can get separation and can run, Mickens is just lost. Reports are he's not even competitive in these situations. MacMahon noted Friday, and again today (Sunday), that he has no catch-up speed. Not just on deep routes, but crossing routes too. Descriptions of Mickens are that he's "chasing" and the WR is "wide open" .. not even close coverage. .. Friday, Mickens got beat very easily (accd. to MacMahon) by Jefferson, Reid and HOLLEY. ... Today (Sunday) the same thing with Austin and Ogletree. .. Hey but he's a seventh round pick and was injured too ... gotta stay positive!

b) Brandon Williams. He's like Spencer, who was drafted as a pass rusher but wound up a run stopper (this is the B. Williams skinny so far). Good against the run is OK, it's not a bad consolation prize. But Wade wanted Brandon because his first pass-rush step was like a shot - maybe so but his other steps haven't been effective yet rushing the passer. He's gotten some good reviews from teammates though.

c) Mike Hamlin. A good center fielder and athlete, but MacMahon reports he's been suspect in man-to-man coverage ability.

d) DeAngelo Smith. Nothing positive or negative seen or heard, I think Bradie said he was good in minicamp. ... Manuel Johnson, kinda MIA too in S. Antonio.

e) I heard nothing positive about Brewster during OTAs or minicamp, maybe lack of media access. No love from coaches though yet. I did see Brewster working after practice with Houck some, a good sign or bad sign? ... No UDFA OL has flashed too much. Isdaner maybe a little. Schwapp is a strong blocker.

Jason Williams and McGee, good but green. Hodge a OTA star as I remember (can you put "OTA Star" on your resume?) ....

Time for rookie positivity: Butler may be a great player. Buehler, Phillips, Ogletree very good. Those four guys will make the team, unless Buehler is traded for a need.

New veteran/FA end-roster types that may be at least practice squad guys, if they are still eligible, I'm too lazy to check them: Ryan Gibbons maybe a little something on the OL. The rest all on defense: Julian Hawkins you gotta hope for - he was a minicamp star anyway. Derrick Robinson, Octavien, Jerome Carter have shown a little.

 

[InmanRoshi]

You're putting a lot of weight on the observations of untrained eyes of journalists (who are usually playing grab### during training camp practices).

 

[igtmfo]

You're putting a lot of weight on the observations of untrained eyes of journalists (who are usually playing grab### during training camp practices).

No prob. Forget McMahon.

But when the ref calls interference because Mickens grabs-and-ties-up the star of Fourth-And-Long on a go-route, because the star of Fourth-And-Long is too fast to cover/recover (Holley a 4.7 guy nowadays?), and he would have scored, you have to wonder, don't you ???

 

[SaltwaterServr]

You're putting a lot of weight on the observations of untrained eyes of journalists (who are usually playing grab### during training camp practices).

FWIW, they were the same ones pointing out Aaron Glenn getting toasted in camp, Jacques Reeves playing not so bueno, Anthony Henry playing a bit slower, and Brad Johnson having an arm the consistency of pasta left boiling for about 4 hours too long.

 

[Idgit]

FWIW, they were the same ones pointing out Aaron Glenn getting toasted in camp, Jacques Reeves playing not so bueno, Anthony Henry playing a bit slower, and Brad Johnson having an arm the consistency of pasta left boiling for about 4 hours too long.

Come again? Other than the Brad Johnson rap, I don't remember critics singling in on any of those. Granted, they all have opinions and those opinions are all over the map, but it's not like these guys come out and say anything that's not told them by position coaches. For example, Zach Thomas was the rave of early training camp last year; and when whichever old hack it was who reported that Tony had told him in private that one WR was ready to explode after pretty much an entire training camp, the local journalists were left speculating as much as the rest of us as to which player he might have been talking about.

They know hardly anything an educated fan can't see for himself beyond what's specifically told to them by a scout or a coach.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

Come again? Other than the Brad Johnson rap, I don't remember critics singling in on any of those. Granted, they all have opinions and those opinions are all over the map, but it's not like these guys come out and say anything that's not told them by position coaches. For example, Zach Thomas was the rave of early training camp last year; and when whichever old hack it was who reported that Tony had told him in private that one WR was ready to explode after pretty much an entire training camp, the local journalists were left speculating as much as the rest of us as to which player he might have been talking about.

They know hardly anything an educated fan can't see for himself beyond what's specifically told to them by a scout or a coach.

The Aaron Glenn issue was reported on ad infinitum in the DMN blogs. Not sure which one of the guys reported it, but I remember specifically him writing "caught in front of, you guessed it, Aaron Glenn."

The rest of it was there as well.

 

[dbair1967]

I love the idea of Ciskowski "volume drafting" in theory and want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I would rather have a dozen second-day draft picks than say trading mostly "up" to get two higher picks the first day, then only three picks on the second day or something.

I'm a positive person but I'm going to just concentrate on the negativity here. Whatever I don't say bad about them, then they're "all right."

Just reading all the blogs and observations on this board/DMN/Smoaky/Grizz etc. ... here goes

a) Mickens. His outlook is bad. Slow. OK, he's jumped some short outs successfully (he had a reputation for gambling at Cinn., I read in a draft report that it might have been due to his lack of speed) ... and has made a few interceptions in practice in camp so far, got some raves for that. Gecko sticky pads for hands. He does well defending guys on underneath stuff, quick outs, he has some quickness. ...

But he's been utterly toasted mostly. Once a receiver can get separation and can run, Mickens is just lost. Reports are he's not even competitive in these situations. MacMahon noted Friday, and again today (Sunday), that he has no catch-up speed. Not just on deep routes, but crossing routes too. Descriptions of Mickens are that he's "chasing" and the WR is "wide open" .. not even close coverage. .. Friday, Mickens got beat very easily (accd. to MacMahon) by Jefferson, Reid and HOLLEY. ... Today (Sunday) the same thing with Austin and Ogletree. .. Hey but he's a seventh round pick and was injured too ... gotta stay positive!

b) Brandon Williams. He's like Spencer, who was drafted as a pass rusher but wound up a run stopper (this is the B. Williams skinny so far). Good against the run is OK, it's not a bad consolation prize. But Wade wanted Brandon because his first pass-rush step was like a shot - maybe so but his other steps haven't been effective yet rushing the passer. He's gotten some good reviews from teammates though.

c) Mike Hamlin. A good center fielder and athlete, but MacMahon reports he's been suspect in man-to-man coverage ability.

d) DeAngelo Smith. Nothing positive or negative seen or heard, I think Bradie said he was good in minicamp. ... Manuel Johnson, kinda MIA too in S. Antonio.

e) I heard nothing positive about Brewster during OTAs or minicamp, maybe lack of media access. No love from coaches though yet. I did see Brewster working after practice with Houck some, a good sign or bad sign? ... No UDFA OL has flashed too much. Isdaner maybe a little. Schwapp is a strong blocker.

Jason Williams and McGee, good but green. Hodge a OTA star as I remember (can you put "OTA Star" on your resume?) ....

Time for rookie positivity: Butler may be a great player. Buehler, Phillips, Ogletree very good. Those four guys will make the team, unless Buehler is traded for a need.

New veteran/FA end-roster types that may be at least practice squad guys, if they are still eligible, I'm too lazy to check them: Ryan Gibbons maybe a little something on the OL. The rest all on defense: Julian Hawkins you gotta hope for - he was a minicamp star anyway. Derrick Robinson, Octavien, Jerome Carter have shown a little.

Its just way too early to even be worrying about this stuff. They havent even played a game that doesnt count yet (preseason)

 

[jackrussell]

Yes, who needs 3 years to evaluate a draft? Whomever come up with that iz just stoopid. 2009 draft class=bust. We're doomed.

 

[casmith07]

Yet another great thread.

 

[Yeagermeister]

Yes, who needs 3 years to evaluate a draft? Whomever come up with that iz just stoopid. 2009 draft class=bust. We're doomed.

Yeap only week in to camp we know all we need to know about the rookies.

 

[Monster Heel]

My expectations for this group were nil going in, so it's kind of hard to be negative towards them. If any of them make any plays, like at all, I'll be glad.

 

[big dog cowboy]

All the rookies need to be cut some slack until we at least play one preseason game.

I remember all those people who thought Aikman was a wasted draft pick after his rookie season. It takes time.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Accurate thread title

http://i5.***BLOCKED***/albums/y164/nbr1diva/ppreflex.gif

 

[Future]

Mike Mickens isn't going to see the field anyways unless a couple of guys are hurt.

 

[CowboyMike]

Be patient. Romo wasn't built in a day.

 

[DallasEast]

Accurate thread title

http://i5.***BLOCKED***/albums/y164/nbr1diva/ppreflex.gif

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm not expecting any of the rookies to challenge for starting jobs this year, I think most will contribute on special teams and have roles in certain situations.

 

[Chief]

I love the idea of Ciskowski "volume drafting" in theory and want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Ciskowski didn't draft these guys, though.

Jerry ultimately did.

After a year-long process, Ciskowski puts together the draft board and makes recommendations, but it's Jerry's call.

I don't know what Jerry's plan was in this draft, but I think they got some pretty good quality on the second day. Seems like they got lots of guys who love to play football, who were team captains and leaders. No problem with that.

 

[Four]

when pointing out problems with players it is best not to be reliant on the opinons of freaking bloggers.

 

[Alexander]

You're putting a lot of weight on the observations of untrained eyes of journalists (who are usually playing grab### during training camp practices).

Exactly. Its not just journalists, it is fan observations as well which are even worse.

Overall, the biggest disappointments I can see is Brewster tearing his bicep, Hodge being out and Manny Johnson not making a dent in his bid for the 5th wide receiver slot. Everyone else is doing about what we expected or in some cases, better.

For all we know, Mickens is still hampered by his knee. I appreciate the daily updates from bloggers and laymen alike, but I hardly think he's doomed. And even if he is, he was a low round choice. It is not like we invested a lot in him.