Lance Armstrong stripped of all Tour De France titles & banned...

[ABQCOWBOY]

They have gone after others, they have vacated those seven. And Lance Armstrong ran an organization of doping and forced others to use it and attacked others at his own expense. Good riddens to him...

Like I said before, just because a million other people got off, doesn't in any way absolve Mr. Lance Armstrong of his cheating. The same Lance Armstrong and his supporters that defended his innocence based upon children looking up to him and his charity. That same cheat who was all about how he did everything by hard work.

He was earning millions off his cheating... Good bye millions...

There were people who placed 15th or 16th and were clean, meaning they competed against a whole bunch of dopers and still performed admirably on the strength of their own merit...

Every team involved in European Cycling is like that. That is exactly the treatment American Riders got when we went to Europe and it's still how you are treated when you join a team to race professionally over there. This kind of behavior is not unique to Armstrong. It's a part of that sport.

 

[burmafrd]

They have gone after others, they have vacated those seven. And Lance Armstrong ran an organization of doping and forced others to use it and attacked others at his own expense. Good riddens to him...

Like I said before, just because a million other people got off, doesn't in any way absolve Mr. Lance Armstrong of his cheating. The same Lance Armstrong and his supporters that defended his innocence based upon children looking up to him and his charity. That same cheat who was all about how he did everything by hard work.

He was earning millions off his cheating... Good bye millions...

There were people who placed 15th or 16th and were clean, meaning they competed against a whole bunch of dopers and still performed admirably on the strength of their own merit...

really. Who else of the top ones have been hit?

 

[DallasCowpoke]

There were people who placed 15th or 16th and were clean, meaning they competed against a whole bunch of dopers and still performed admirably on the strength of their own merit...

Yup, and Pam Anderson has natural boobs.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Here is an article I read on the testing surrounding Armstrong's situation. I thought it was interesting.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...est-not-positive/story-fn8sc2wz-1226500290616

 

[casmith07]

I know he stepped down, which is what I said in my previous post, which shows the real nature of this guy. Right before the evidence was about to be made public, he said he wasn't going to pursue his defense anymore and focus on his charity. Now, the guy is stepping down from his charity.

The fact is, every one of his sponsors is dropping him and if Lance wasn't guilty, 30 million dollars worth of sponsorship is something to fight back. He's been aggresively defending his innocence at the expense of others, as pointed out by jterrell, he didn't just cheat, he ran a systematic cheating ring for multiple years, which including plenty of illegal activity.

It isn't just the doping, it's the whole nature of what he did. Thousands of pages of evidence.

And there are people who are demanding their money back, just as their are people, who in their moment of support for this cheater, are actually donating more. The same people you claim don't give to cancer research because of Lance, are actually giving because of Lance. That's actually what is even more pathetic, i.e. their 'support' for Lance in the name of cancer research. And of course there are others who are giving to the organization as a statement that it was never about Lance, and those people are admirable.

They're supporting fighting cancer, not Lance Armstrong. If you can't see that, then you're just simply myopic.

It's disgusting that you would even suggest donating LESS MONEY for cancer research.

I pray that cancer never strikes close to you like it has to a friend of mine who lost to cancer, a cousin I lost to cancer, and a multitude of family members who are cancer survivors, possibly due to the research and developments made from donations to organizations like LiveStrong.

 

[Mash]

It's funny reading how some defend Lance....

Reminds me when Ben Johnson got busted for roids here in Canada....some defended him because they all cheated.....others claimed he wasnt Canadian anyways....go figure

Lance was a fraud who did something nice with some of his money he earned by cheating......

If Lance wasnt American.....I dont think anyone would defend him IMHO.

I guess it comes down to accepting a cheater.....We all know PED's are in all sports.

If you can accept that ....then fine.....lets pump them all up and accept it......football is probably filled with players using illegal drugs. If Ware ever got busted.....would he be forgiven?

Better yet.......Say TO was busted for taking PED's.....would there be anyone here defending him? Chances are.....nobody would because he such a hated athlete.......But we have Lance getting banished and stripped from his sport......sponsors are dropping him....and it amazes me that we still have some defend him.

All because he supposed a likeable figure thru the media and had a great charity. But in reality ...he wasnt very well liked amoung his peers and all the money he made was from cheating.

I just dont get how some can defend him......sorry makes no sense to me.....unless of course your all ok with PED's or some other kind of cheating in sports.

JMHO

 

[dez_for_prez]

Reminds me when Ben Johnson got busted for roids here in Canada....some defended him because they all cheated...

If Lance wasnt American.....I dont think anyone would defend him IMHO.

JMHO

Exactly what i was think. He was an American hero and I think a lot of people don't want to see that torn down.

About the positive testing, I heard that he was with drawing blood and then before racing he would have it injected back in causing a rise in white blood cells or something which was giving him the competitive advantage. Not sure if you can get a positive test for that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It's funny reading how some defend Lance....

Reminds me when Ben Johnson got busted for roids here in Canada....some defended him because they all cheated.....others claimed he wasnt Canadian anyways....go figure

Lance was a fraud who did something nice with some of his money he earned by cheating......

If Lance wasnt American.....I dont think anyone would defend him IMHO.

I guess it comes down to accepting a cheater.....We all know PED's are in all sports.

If you can accept that ....then fine.....lets pump them all up and accept it......football is probably filled with players using illegal drugs. If Ware ever got busted.....would he be forgiven?

Better yet.......Say TO was busted for taking PED's.....would there be anyone here defending him? Chances are.....nobody would because he such a hated athlete.......But we have Lance getting banished and stripped from his sport......sponsors are dropping him....and it amazes me that we still have some defend him.

All because he supposed a likeable figure thru the media and had a great charity. But in reality ...he wasnt very well liked amoung his peers and all the money he made was from cheating.

I just dont get how some can defend him......sorry makes no sense to me.....unless of course your all ok with PED's or some other kind of cheating in sports.

JMHO

Could not disagree more Mash. The entire sport is dirty. You can not even compete in the sport unless you are willing to do what is required. This is not a sport where a single rider can compete. In order to be able to compete in this sport, you have to have a ride. It's like Professional Car racing in that respect. You can't just take your own gear and go out and ride in events. You have to be part of a team. In order to make a team, you have to be invited and in order to be invited, you have to be willing to do what the team wants you to do. We spent 20 years getting ignored in the sport before America Riders embraced the idea of doping. It's true. American's basically ignored the entire sport and then bang, we adopted European methods, we won races and the sport started getting some interest. Then came Armstrong and the sport took off.

If you want to say that you just don't like the sport because they are all cheaters, I'm cool with that. If you want to say that you think it's a lessor sport because of what they do, I'm OK with that. However, I think it's wrong to take one guy and use him as the sacrificial lamb. They are all doing the same thing. All the top riders are jerks. Heck, bigger jerks then even Lance and that's true. In Europe, and this is what we are really talking about here, Cyclists are treated like Gods. If you are a Tour de France champion, it's even worse. Europeans hate the fact that an American is the greatest athlete their sport has ever had. They can not stand it. It would be like having a Frenchman come to the U.S. and be the best Football Player the world has ever seen. Americans would not like it. Same with Armstrong. From the very first time Armstrong started winning, the Europeans started trying to get him. Seriously, they have been out for Armstrong for 20 years.

I would be OK if the sport were clean and Armstrong were cheating but the sport is dirty and that's how they want it. If you want to compete in that sport, you have to play by their rules and these are their rules.

 

[casmith07]

It's funny reading how some defend Lance....

Reminds me when Ben Johnson got busted for roids here in Canada....some defended him because they all cheated.....others claimed he wasnt Canadian anyways....go figure

Lance was a fraud who did something nice with some of his money he earned by cheating......

If Lance wasnt American.....I dont think anyone would defend him IMHO.

I guess it comes down to accepting a cheater.....We all know PED's are in all sports.

If you can accept that ....then fine.....lets pump them all up and accept it......football is probably filled with players using illegal drugs. If Ware ever got busted.....would he be forgiven?

Better yet.......Say TO was busted for taking PED's.....would there be anyone here defending him? Chances are.....nobody would because he such a hated athlete.......But we have Lance getting banished and stripped from his sport......sponsors are dropping him....and it amazes me that we still have some defend him.

All because he supposed a likeable figure thru the media and had a great charity. But in reality ...he wasnt very well liked amoung his peers and all the money he made was from cheating.

I just dont get how some can defend him......sorry makes no sense to me.....unless of course your all ok with PED's or some other kind of cheating in sports.

JMHO

Let me be clear -- I'm not defending Lance Armstrong. I couldn't possibly care any less about him, or about the "sport" of cycling.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Exactly what i was think. He was an American hero and I think a lot of people don't want to see that torn down.

About the positive testing, I heard that he was with drawing blood and then before racing he would have it injected back in causing a rise in white blood cells or something which was giving him the competitive advantage. Not sure if you can get a positive test for that.

What you describe is called Blood Doping or Induced Erythrocythemia. Basically, it increases the amount of oxygen the blood can carry and increases strength, stamina and endurance. When I say that doping has been going on for years, I mean for years! As far back as 1867, riders have been found to be using things such as Sugar Injections, Caffeine and various Nitroglycerides to try and stimulate performance. I mean, the sport has been dirty for as long as there have been riders.

What's really funny is that the ruling body now, the International Cycling Union, which is the Governing Body for the sport has only introduced the Cycling Anti-doping Federation to try and control this, in like 2008. Even today, they still do not test for everything. Many things are simply allowed to continue. It's a witch hunt in every sense of the word IMO.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Miguel Indurain still believes in Lance Armstrong's innocence

• Spaniard expects Armstrong to appeal over UCI decision
• Indurain disputes strength of evidence against American
• Former team-mate Kjaegaard also admits doping

Though Lance Armstrong has been stripped of his seven Tour de France titles by the UCI, the former champion Miguel Indurain still refuses to accept his guilt.

Indurain, who, along with Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx and Bernard Hinault, is now back at the top of the all-time Tour annals with five victories, told Spanish radio station Marca: "Even now I believe in his innocence. He has always respected all the regulations… He has won all the cases he's had."

On that basis, Armstrong waiving his right to appeal confused Indurain. "What surprises me is that he doesn't keep fighting," he said. "I think he will come back and appeal and try to show that he played fair for all those years."

Indurain also took issue with the investigative process, challenging the validity of the evidence it produced. "I am a little taken aback. It is strange that this is done only from testimonies. Rules were in place and now it seems they have changed."

The US Anti-doping Agency (USADA) relied on witness testimony from 11 former team-mates and 15 other riders, and their thoroughness was praised by the World Anti-Doping Agency chief John Fahey. "It has always been incumbent on anti-doping organisations to undertake a more coherent approach to widespread allegations of doping," said Fahey, "and it is not sufficient to claim that enough was done just because testing did not lead to analytical violations."

UCI's decision to strip Armstrong of his titles was further reinforced aftrer Armstrong's former team-mate, Steffen Kjaergaard, supported their allegations. "For 15 years I hid a lie," he told a news conference. "I had believed it was best for me and the sport to carry this dark secret to the grave."

Read more:http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/23/lance-armstrong-miguel-indurain-uci-evidence

 

[UKCowboysFan]

Interesting that most believe the whole sport of Cycling to be doping now.

If this is based on the number of positive tests you could look at it in two ways.

More people dope, that is why more are caught. Or, the testing program is much more stringent than in any other sport.

Alberto Contador the Spanish cyclist was banned for six months & stripped of the 2010 TDF title because he tested positive for clenbuterol.

"However, the UCI said the concentration found by the laboratory was estimated at 50 picograms - 400 times less than anti-doping laboratories accredited by the World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada) must be able to detect."


It would be interesting to see how many failed tests there would be in Football & Baseball if they had the same rigorous testing policy.

 

[joseephuss]

There were people who placed 15th or 16th and were clean, meaning they competed against a whole bunch of dopers and still performed admirably on the strength of their own merit...

Although they only crown one champion for each race, cycling is a team sport. it takes a full team effort to win a race at that level.

Were there really guys who placed 15th or 16th that were clean? And if so, were all the members on their teams clean? If they are competing with teammates who were doping, then they didn't do it all on the strength of their own merit.

 

[rickjameschinaclub]

really. Who else of the top ones have been hit?

Uh, who blew the whistle on Lance in the first place?

 

[rickjameschinaclub]

Interesting that most believe the whole sport of Cycling to be doping now.

If this is based on the number of positive tests you could look at it in two ways.

More people dope, that is why more are caught. Or, the testing program is much more stringent than in any other sport.

Alberto Contador the Spanish cyclist was banned for six months & stripped of the 2010 TDF title because he tested positive for clenbuterol.

"However, the UCI said the concentration found by the laboratory was estimated at 50 picograms - 400 times less than anti-doping laboratories accredited by the World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada) must be able to detect."


It would be interesting to see how many failed tests there would be in Football & Baseball if they had the same rigorous testing policy.

Don't talk facts, because only Lance Armstrong is being targetted by the sport.. It's those pesky Europeans.. But the investigation was done by US cycling?

People are still arguing on the false premise that convicting Lance Armstrong somehow negates the notion that those that suspended him don't recognize that doping existed in cycling and continues to exist. It's like the President said, "we're sorry we haven't caught all of them..." Like I said, a hundred criminals does not make the one criminal more innocent. he's still a guilty piece of crap, especially running things like he did.

I just love when the Chinese dope in the Olympics for swimming, nobody is raising a hue and a cry when they are stripped of their medals, despite other athletes doping. Now you have his own teammates coming out of the woodworks, but I guess that is all mass-conspiracy too and they are 'sell-outs', though they were silent for all these years, especially during the 7 years of 'winning'.

 

[rickjameschinaclub]

So Miguel Indurain's belief in Lance's innocence becomes evidence, but all the other people that rode with Lance and witnessed his cheating is not evidence... nice..

 

[rickjameschinaclub]

They're supporting fighting cancer, not Lance Armstrong. If you can't see that, then you're just simply myopic.

It's disgusting that you would even suggest donating LESS MONEY for cancer research.

I pray that cancer never strikes close to you like it has to a friend of mine who lost to cancer, a cousin I lost to cancer, and a multitude of family members who are cancer survivors, possibly due to the research and developments made from donations to organizations like LiveStrong.

Cry me a river...

On what planet did I suggest that I would argue for donating less money to cancer? Your the one that brought up the argument that people are donating more, now that Lance has stepped down, as evidence that it has nothing to do with Lance. They could just as well be giving in support of Lance, as a screw you' to the cycling agencies. There are plenty of cancer organizations that people can donate to, not just Lance's. I didn't say all of them were not intending well, which I admitted.

Guess what, Lance stepped down. That's a fact and that too, after claiming he was not going to defend himself anymore, and focus on his charity.

The fact that he started a charity doesn't make Lance any less of a poor human being. There are plenty of gangsters that give to their churches as well. The Italian mafias were 'staunch' Catholics and baptized their kids.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

So Miguel Indurain's belief in Lance's innocence becomes evidence, but all the other people that rode with Lance and witnessed his cheating is not evidence... nice..

I don't believe it's evidence that he says he doesn't believe he was dirty. Indurain was probably dirty as well. I do believe that what Indurain said has relevance in that he says that Armstrong was never caught cheating and that the rules applied to Lance were different then what were ever applied before.

 

[Mash]

Could not disagree more Mash. The entire sport is dirty. You can not even compete in the sport unless you are willing to do what is required. This is not a sport where a single rider can compete. In order to be able to compete in this sport, you have to have a ride. It's like Professional Car racing in that respect. You can't just take your own gear and go out and ride in events. You have to be part of a team. In order to make a team, you have to be invited and in order to be invited, you have to be willing to do what the team wants you to do. We spent 20 years getting ignored in the sport before America Riders embraced the idea of doping. It's true. American's basically ignored the entire sport and then bang, we adopted European methods, we won races and the sport started getting some interest. Then came Armstrong and the sport took off.

If you want to say that you just don't like the sport because they are all cheaters, I'm cool with that. If you want to say that you think it's a lessor sport because of what they do, I'm OK with that. However, I think it's wrong to take one guy and use him as the sacrificial lamb. They are all doing the same thing. All the top riders are jerks. Heck, bigger jerks then even Lance and that's true. In Europe, and this is what we are really talking about here, Cyclists are treated like Gods. If you are a Tour de France champion, it's even worse. Europeans hate the fact that an American is the greatest athlete their sport has ever had. They can not stand it. It would be like having a Frenchman come to the U.S. and be the best Football Player the world has ever seen. Americans would not like it. Same with Armstrong. From the very first time Armstrong started winning, the Europeans started trying to get him. Seriously, they have been out for Armstrong for 20 years.

I would be OK if the sport were clean and Armstrong were cheating but the sport is dirty and that's how they want it. If you want to compete in that sport, you have to play by their rules and these are their rules.

I understand what your saying.....I just dont accept cheating.....it doesnt really matter if everyone else is doin it. Some Olympic sports are known for their doping....I still wont accept it....just because its the norm.....sorry

We witness European soccer players flop like they been shot.....I consider that unsportsman like....I sure dont want Canadian soccer too adopt that kind of playing.....just so they can compete.

Was their a witch hunt for Lance.....maybe so....but I dont really care about that. And if they all cheated in this sport and it was accepted....then IMHO Lance was better off admitting this ....at least the public would of maybe accepted it.

I just dont agree...that its acceptable to cheat because everyone else is cheating....I rather lose then......but money and fame is what they are after....so be it.....I still consider them a fraud.

JMHO

 

[rickjameschinaclub]

I don't believe it's evidence that he says he doesn't believe he was dirty. Indurain was probably dirty as well. I do believe that what Indurain said has relevance in that he says that Armstrong was never caught cheating and that the rules applied to Lance were different then what were ever applied before.

The point is, you got to start somewhere...