LB Devin White of the Bucs speaking on Kellen Moore play calling

[BoysForLife]

AC, come on. Go watch the Pick 6 from last week. Dak stared down the receiver right from the start. The DB wasn't any near him until Dak started to throw and the DB took off knowing what was coming. No looking him off. No pump fake. This wasn't a separation issue at all. You're better than this.

#facts

Except your last sentence.

 

[America's Cowboy]

in this case, I agree with you on the point that the ball was out quick. But that's where our agreement ends.
the problem was, he stared at him the entire time and telegraphed it.

the DB was basically on a dead run, full sprint by the time he caught the ball. Dak's eyes and body told everyone where that ball was going from the moment it was snapped.

that's an issue, unless your arm is incredibly strong. Favre or Elway could get away with that because they throw lasers.
That was not on Brown. the way he telegraphed that pass, Dak may as well have handed it off to the DB.

I disagree because of Noah's rounded route, he never forced the DB to turn his hips or hesitate. It was too easy for the CB to run downhill and step in front of that pass no matter how hard Dak could have thrown that pass. The only way I could see how that pass had a chance would have been if Dak had lobbed that pass towards the sideline to where only Noah has a chance: either Noah is going to catch it or let it go out of bounds while never allowing the CB a chance to get his hands on the football.

 

[America's Cowboy]

#facts

Except your last sentence.

Except your brain...seriously lacking with no chance of ever getting smart.

 

[BoysForLife]

I disagree because of Noah's rounded route, he never forced the DB to turn his hips or hesitate. It was too easy for the CB to run downhill and step in front of that pass no matter how hard Dak could have thrown that pass. The only way I could see how that pass had a chance would have been if Dak had lobbed that pass towards the sideline to where only Noah has a chance: either Noah is going to catch it or let it go out of bounds while never allowing the CB a chance to get his hands on the football.

I disagree with your assessment of the route but playing devil's advocate with the bold, why didn't dak just do that?

Why put it in a spot on the inside where the DB can get it? Why not throw it where only our guy has a shot at it?

By making this distinction aren't you at least in part making Dak complicit in this pick 6 by acknowledging that he has the option to put it higher and outside but chose to throw inside where the defender had more leverage?

 

[BoysForLife]

Except your brain...seriously lacking with no chance of ever getting smart.

Yawn.

 

[America's Cowboy]

I disagree with your assessment of the route but playing devil's advocate with the bold, why didn't dak just do that?

Why put it in a spot on the inside where the DB can get it? Why not throw it where only our guy has a shot at it?

By making this distinction aren't you at least in part making Dak complicit in this pick 6 by acknowledging that he has the option to put it higher and outside but chose to throw inside where the defender had more leverage?

I've said from the very beginning that Dak was as much responsible. The issue here is you don't want to hear anyone else accountable but Dak.

 

[EST_1986]

You find this old video meaningful because of what exactly?

Because absolutely zero has changed

 

[Bobhaze]

BECAUSE WE STILL RUN THESE ROUTES, NOTHING HAS CHANGED

The Cowboys run the simplest route trees in the NFL. Lots of come back curls, slants and other routes that require the WR to win one on one matchups or they don’t get open. It’s very high school. And too many of those routes take way too long to develop.

So many modern NFL offenses “scheme” receivers open with stacked formations that produce “rub routes“ where defenders are put in tough positions to cover. How often do we see the Cowboys run a “rub“ or “pick” route where receivers cross in front of defenders simultaneously? Rarely.

 

[foofighters]

Yes, that throw was on Dak, but Noah Brown ran a lazy rounded route. He never forced the CB to respect his route running, thus it was easy for the CB to run forward and jump his lazy route. Football 101. A better receiver with much better, crisp and 45° harder cut route running would have forced that CB to turn his hips and get open separation for what should have been an easy completion.

I can see that. Here's what worries me: We've been hearing for years that we are predictable. I don't really hear that much with other teams. Yes, you can only be so creative before everyone has seen what you do or what all teams do so in essence, yes, football is about lining up and beating the guy in front of you. However, as you've pointed out as well as several others...and I have yelled at the screen too...we have some weird routes/plays that we run. Outside of Ceedee (and maybe TY), I don't think our guys really scare anyone. I put that more on the WR coach and Boy Wonder.

Our offense still has the penchant for throwing to "open" guys. I have seen some plays this year where we are throwing to a spot more so that we ever have (and this is good imho). Although, we do fall back on tendencies of looking for open guys. I just feel like we need to line up (in the hurry up) and throw timing patterns. Never let the D get set. I don't know if this is Dak or Moore. I saw this with Garrett too. Moore has learned under Garrett (I don't know who calls that a strong coaching tree) so while Dak has his issues, I feel Moore is one of our biggest issues. Sure our offense has done well with numbers. To me, that's the old Garrett style of being great Monday-Saturday. Moore isn't a game time coach (just like JG wasn't). Moore may be a good strategist but when the game starts, is it too fast for him? Are we seeing his inexperience? Yes, those stats show Moore's planning but he's like that guy who is awesome until he's punched in the mouth and he starts bleeding for the first time.

Just my ramblings while I am waiting for my coffee to get into my veins...

 

[America's Cowboy]

I can see that. Here's what worries me: We've been hearing for years that we are predictable. I don't really hear that much with other teams. Yes, you can only be so creative before everyone has seen what you do or what all teams do so in essence, yes, football is about lining up and beating the guy in front of you. However, as you've pointed out as well as several others...and I have yelled at the screen too...we have some weird routes/plays that we run. Outside of Ceedee (and maybe TY), I don't think our guys really scare anyone. I put that more on the WR coach and Boy Wonder.

Our offense still has the penchant for throwing to "open" guys. I have seen some plays this year where we are throwing to a spot more so that we ever have (and this is good imho). Although, we do fall back on tendencies of looking for open guys. I just feel like we need to line up (in the hurry up) and throw timing patterns. Never let the D get set. I don't know if this is Dak or Moore. I saw this with Garrett too. Moore has learned under Garrett (I don't know who calls that a strong coaching tree) so while Dak has his issues, I feel Moore is one of our biggest issues. Sure our offense has done well with numbers. To me, that's the old Garrett style of being great Monday-Saturday. Moore isn't a game time coach (just like JG wasn't). Moore may be a good strategist but when the game starts, is it too fast for him? Are we seeing his inexperience? Yes, those stats show Moore's planning but he's like that guy who is awesome until he's punched in the mouth and he starts bleeding for the first time.

Just my ramblings while I am waiting for my coffee to get into my veins...

I'm 100% in agreement and feel the same way bro.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

How many players and teams do y'all need to hear say how simple our playbook is?

 

[Birch_Wood]

How many players and teams do y'all need to hear say how simple our playbook is?

Why is it simple?

 

[CWR]

Dak is throwing pick-6s because WE'VE GOT NO WEAPONS AT WR!!!!!!!!

It's not that hard to figure that out. Watch film and see. No separation whatsoever because we've got no weapons at receiver (except for CeeDee).

Cowboys seriously need to get Dak another receiving weapon. Once they do that, watch how much better Dak and this Offense will run.

We really need speed at the position, or at the least some more shiftiness. I was just looking at the peanuts the Jags gave up for a stud like Ridley and thinking why the hell didn't we try to make that deal.

 

[Strykerscm]

Avoid their corners, attack their safeties with your TEs. They cannot stop it

Kellen and fatass are the only people on earth who don’t realize we have good tight ends.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Why is it simple?

Because you have a simple OC who learned from simple OC's in Garrett and LInehan.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

We really need speed at the position, or at the least some more shiftiness. I was just looking at the peanuts the Jags gave up for a stud like Ridley and thinking why the hell didn't we try to make that deal.

I was playing Madden and someone had the Jags....had no clue they had Ridley. I mean I knew they did when they traded for him but with him missing the season I forgot all about him. Nice little receiving group there.

 

[visionary]

I disagree because of Noah's rounded route, he never forced the DB to turn his hips or hesitate. It was too easy for the CB to run downhill and step in front of that pass no matter how hard Dak could have thrown that pass. The only way I could see how that pass had a chance would have been if Dak had lobbed that pass towards the sideline to where only Noah has a chance: either Noah is going to catch it or let it go out of bounds while never allowing the CB a chance to get his hands on the football.

I agree with this
I was surprised at the say Brown ran that route
But this is where the coach has to tell Brown that he won’t play and this is where Dak has to be a leader and hold the player accountable. If his bad route caused the interception then Dak needs to tell him that he did that and he won’t go to him again unless he improves his route running but Dak wants to be their ‘buddy’
A leader is not a buddy (same problem that Romo had) a leader has to command respect and hold players accountable and Dak is not that

 

[America's Cowboy]

I agree with this
I was surprised at the say Brown ran that route
But this is where the coach has to tell Brown that he won’t play and this is where Dak has to be a leader and hold the player accountable. If his bad route caused the interception then Dak needs to tell him that he did that and he won’t go to him again unless he improves his route running but Dak wants to be their ‘buddy’
A leader is not a buddy (same problem that Romo had) a leader has to command respect and hold players accountable and Dak is not that

100% agreed! My cousins said as much recently. Dak needs to stop being the players' buddy during the game.

 

[zeke21]

Bucs feel very comfortable they have our number. So do a lot of teams. We have faced this before.. most teams will be honest that they know exactly what we are going to do.. the weaker teams just can't stop it and the stronger teams can.

THAT is exactly the reason why we 'run up' wins against weaker oppo and then struggle against any decent teams. Kellen Moore is a joke of an OC. Every team knows that they plug the middle.. force us to go out wide.. and then watch us abandon the run game after 2 failed attempts.. then you just sweat on Dak staring down his receivers.. and jump the route. Rinse and Repeat.

The teams that struggle against us are those that know we are going to run up the middle but can't stop it.

 

[Omegasupreme]

I just posted Kurt Warner’s breakdown and at 20:10, Devin White had an easy pick, but dropped it. The point being this problem of Dak goes back to his very first game this season. It exemplifies one of Dak’s biggest flaws.

Kurt has been very critical of the Dallas offense mainly because he ran the same system but with Mike Martz, a true genius of that scheme, as OC. While Kurt does point out some missed opportunities and bad decisions on Dak, the two biggest pass play flaws that Kurt points out are: 1st- plays that were not really going to work/based on hoping the defenders make a mistake in coverage (which he said is not a basis for a successful play). And 2nd-the routes themselves are not well run.
Now it still looks like the Cowboys are a tale of two cities right now. Quinn personally coaches and sets up his defense himself, makes adjustments, takes responsibility for errors, adds depth and keeps things organized. Kellen seems to be more like draws up plays up in his room on his bunk bed on his etch a sketch and really doesn’t personally coach the players, the precision, and the permutations when things fail.

But my biggest question and what I think is the biggest flaw is Kellen is pushing Dak into the scheme rather than making a scheme around what works for Dak. It really seems to be about Kellen succeeding with his thoughts on playcalling rather than whether something is effective and wills the team to win.