Least deserving Hall of Famers?

THUMPER

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Hostile;2845784 said:
To me, these are the 5 guys who are currently snubbed who are the most glaring absentees. In no particular order.

Chuck Howley
Karl Mecklenberg
Bob Kuechenberg
Cliff Harris
Tommy Nobis

Great list, I would add Jeff Van Note to that list as well. Centers tend to get overlooked anyway and he was a great one but played for a lame team.

The only one I might disagree with on your list is Bob Kuechenberg but that is probably because of my anti-Dolphins bias. They've got enough guys in the HoF already. :D
 

THUMPER

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AbeBeta;2845773 said:
If you make this argument then you have to concede that your belief that Pearson should be in the Hall if Swan is totally inconsistent with your desire for a Hall of Greatness

Not necessarily since I believe it should be a hall of FAME. It is only that because the selection committee is made up of mediots and not former players/coaches. Mediots are focused on who was more "famous" and not on who was the better player/coach. Former players/coaches would be more likely to select inductees based on their success on the field, not in the media.
 

ZeroClub

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magic-sword;2845641 said:
Joe Namath and Lynn Swann do not deserve to be in the HOF - flat out ridiculous. Sounds like "man crush" rather than based upon reality.

I HATE man crush selections - ESPN is full of this BS.

Yeah, Namath was the first name that came to my mind.

Agreed on Swann.

I also like Thumper's Dan Hampton pick. .... I never saw him as a Hall of Famer. He was a solid, above average player for many years. But I was surprised to see him get voted in.
 

burmafrd

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JOe made it to the HOF because he was the first QB to lead an AFL team to victory in the SB. After the way the Pack had embarrassed the AFL for two years in a row (and we all know that they were past their prime and aging and they still won) the merger was starting to look like a mistake. A lot of old time AFL people give Joe a lot of credit for making the AFL finally look competitive. And the coverage he got as a jet also helped there. I remember reading what an old time AFL defensive lineman said- after they won the SB no one from the old AFL ever took a shot at Joes knees ever again. THey always hit him high. That is the biggest reason that he made it to the HOF.
 

THUMPER

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burmafrd;2846374 said:
JOe made it to the HOF because he was the first QB to lead an AFL team to victory in the SB. After the way the Pack had embarrassed the AFL for two years in a row (and we all know that they were past their prime and aging and they still won) the merger was starting to look like a mistake. A lot of old time AFL people give Joe a lot of credit for making the AFL finally look competitive. And the coverage he got as a jet also helped there. I remember reading what an old time AFL defensive lineman said- after they won the SB no one from the old AFL ever took a shot at Joes knees ever again. THey always hit him high. That is the biggest reason that he made it to the HOF.

Namath was also the first QB to throw for more than 4000 yards in a season (4007 in 1967). That and the win in SBIII (and the results from that win) were what got him into the HoF.

His career stats were certainly nothing special as he completed barely 50% of his passes and threw 47 more INTs than TDs.

He was never the same after the 1969 season although he had a resurgence in 1972 and played in one of the greatest games I ever saw when he and Johnny Unitas fought a passing duel that was one for the ages! Unitas was done and in his final year with the Colts, but he mustered up one last great game against Namath. It seemed to me as if he were saying "See what would have happened if you had faced me in the SB instead of Morrall".

Unfortunately for Unitas, he was 39 and Namath was only 29 and Johnny U's arm was shot by that time. Even worse, the Colts great defense of the last decade was gone and they jjust couldn't stop the Jets. Still he threw for 26 of 45 for 376 yards and 2 TDs with 0 INTs. Pretty good for a guy everyone thought should have retired prior to the season.

Namath had the game of his life as he threw for 15 of 28 for 496 yards, 6 TDs and 1 INT. Yes you read that right, 4 yards short of 500! Joe had 4 TD passes of 65 yards or more! Rich Caster had 3 TD catches and 204 yards receiving on the day.

Namath had a few good games after that but his knees were a mess and h ended his career with the Rams in 1977 in a loss to the Bears where he threw 4 INTs and no TDs as they lost 23-24. At least he threw for 204 yards in that game. In his final game with the Jets he also threw 4 INTs but only completed 4 passes for 20 yards for the game as the Jets were crushed t home by the Bengals 42-3!

Namath had as much talent as any QB that has ever played. He had a great arm, was a good leader, had poise and courage, was tougher than people give him credit for, but his biggest weakness was his decision making. He took too many chances and relied on his arm strength to get the ball into tight spots. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't but it cost his team too much when it didn't work. He only had 2 seasons where he threw more TDs than INTs.

He was a great QB but IMO doesn't belong in the HoF. He had a losing record over his career and is in the negative in TD/INT ratio by a large margin. He also missed a lot of playing time with injuries.

That's my take on Joe Namath.
 

Yakuza Rich

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I don't believe Monk should be in the HOF, but I wouldn't say least deserving either. I actually think Charlie Joiner deserves to be in the HOF less than Monk. Swann is pretty bad as well.



YAKUZA
 

Yakuza Rich

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Hostile;2845784 said:
To me, these are the 5 guys who are currently snubbed who are the most glaring absentees. In no particular order.

Chuck Howley
Karl Mecklenberg
Bob Kuechenberg
Cliff Harris
Tommy Nobis

I would put in Richard Dent over Mecklenberg any day of the week. Stunned Dent doesn't even come close. That guy was a bonafide beast.




YAKUZA
 

bigE79

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These are the ones i think should be in... Ken Anderson,Harvey Martin,Chuck Howley,Cliff Harris,Drew Pearson,and if they can put dan hampton in,then i can put in Johnny Tooz...as for the one that has no business in the hall,its gotta be Swann.:star:
 

Bill Wooten

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Namath's interview with Suzy Kolber gets him in my Hall of Fame on the first ballot!!
 

THUMPER

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Bill Wooten;2846639 said:
Namath's interview with Suzy Kolber gets him in my Hall of Fame on the first ballot!!

"I wanna kiss you." Definitely the low point of his life.
 

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THUMPER;2845535 said:
Who do you consider to be the players least deserving to be in the HoF (that are already in of course)?

I have a few who I don't believe should b in the HoF, or at least should not have gone in ahead of other, more deserving players. I believe it was because of the hype surrounding them or the effective campaign to get them in.

Here we go:

CB Emmitt Thomas - class of 2008 - played from 1966-78 - was named to 5 Pro-Bowls and 1 time 1st team All Pro. He did have 58 INTs in his career but so did a lot of other guys from that era. A couple of more deserving candidates would be:

FS Johhny Robinson - Played from 1960-71 - named to 7 Pro-Bowls and 1st team All-Pro 6 times - 57 INTs. Was Thomas' teammate with the Chiefs from 66-71.

FS Jimmy Patton - Played from 1955-66 - named to 5 Pro-Bowls and 1st team All-Pro 5 times - 52 INTs. Played on great Giants teams of the late 50s - early 60s an was considered the best Safety in the game for 5 straight years from 1958-62.
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Next is DE/DT Dan Hampton AKA "Danimal" from the 80s Bears, inducted in 2002. Played from 1979-90 - named to 4 Pro-Bowls and 1 time a 1st team All-Pro. Credited with 2 sacks (unofficially). His claim to fame was his ferocity and that he played on a great Bears' defense. A couple of others I think were more deserving are:

DE Claude Humphrey - Played from 1968-81 for the Falcons & Eagles - named to the Pro-Bowl 6 times and named 1st team All-Pro 2 times - unofficially credited with 126.5 sacks.

DE George Andrie - Played for the Cowboys from 1962-72 - was named to the Pro-Bowl 5 consecutive years and named to the 1st team All-Pro once - unofficially credited with 97 sacks.

Hampton was the product of the hype surrounding the Bears in the mid-80s but he was nowhere near as dominant a player as the media made him out to be. Andrie had more success than he did but gets no recognition. Humphries is overlooked because he played most of his career on a lousy team, the Falcons. He, C Jeff Van Note, and LB Tommy Nobis were great players but will never get the recognition they deserve because they were on a lame team.
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OLB Andre Tippett - Class of 2008 - Played from 1982-93 for the Patriots - named to 5 Pro-Bowls and 1st team All-Pro 2 times - credited with 100 sacks and 1 INT. Was an outstanding pass-rusher but was considered a liability in coverage and not a great run stopper. He was made famous by his involvement in martial arts which helped to hype him up with the media.
A couple of guys I feel are more deserving are:

ILB Karl Mecklenberg - Played for the Broncos from 1983-94 - named to the Pro-Bowl 6 times and 1st team All-Pro 3 times - credited with 79 sacks, 1104 tackles and 5 INTs. Getting 79 sacks from the inside LB position is quite a feat!

OLB Chuck Howley - Played from 1958-1973 - named to 6 Pro-Bowls and 1st team All-Pro 5 times - 25 INTs. Named MVP of SBV, the only time a player from the losing team has won it.

Tippett was a very good player but he was limited in what he could do. His involvement in martial arts made him a cult figure, which is fine but it shouldn't get you into the NFL HoF IMO. Mecklenberg is much more deserving IMO and Howley was a better all-around player and had more recognition for his football playing than Tippett. Yet another reason why the mediots shouldn't make up the selection committee.
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OK two more quick ones...

RB John Henry Johnson - inducted in 1987 - played from 1954-66 for the 49ERs, Lions, Stealers, & his final season with the Oilers. Named to the Pro-Bowl 4 times, was never named 1st team All-Pro. For the first 8 years of his career he didn't do much but then at 33 years old he ripped off an 1141-yard season in 1962. He had another 1000+ year in 1964 at 35 years old! That's an amazing feat but it isn't HoF worthy IMO. Two great years out of 13 is not a HoF career, even if they did come so late. He gained 6803 yards and 48 TDs rushing.
There are probably a lot of guys more deserving but I'll just throw out one...

RB Don Perkins - Played for the Cowboys from 1961-68 - named to the Pro-Bowl 6 times and 1st team All-Pro once. 6 PBs in 8 seasons is a pretty darn good career! Even though he never had a 1000+ yard season he was very consistent. Also, the offense Landry used did not have a feature RB but used at least 2 primary backs that were essentially interchangeable.
Considering he played 5 fewer seasons that Johnson his stats are pretty close: 6217 yards - 42 TDs rushing. neither guy was used as a receiver much and their stats there are very close as well: JHJ 186-1478, DP 146-1310.
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Last one for now...

WR Lynn Swann - inducted in 2001 - played from 1974-82 - named to the Pro-Bowl 3 times and 1st team All Pro once. His stats are pathetic and he is in SOLELY based on his circus catches in big games. Well, that and he played for the Stealers. He caught 336 passes for 5462 yards and 51 TDs. He never had a 1000+ yard season and he wasn't even the best WR on his team (Stallworth was) but he has been in every highlight reel from the late 70s onwards. The media loved this guy, particularly after he became one of them.
Definitely not deserving and there were a lot better WRs around back then. One was:

WR Drew Pearson - played for the Cowboys from 1973-83 - named to 3 Pro-Bowls and 1st team All-Pro 3 times. Drew also had his share of great catches in big games, none bigger than the "Hail Mary" play. Pearson caught 489 passes for 7822 yards and 48 TDs. How Swann is in and Pearson isn't is a travesty!
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So who are your picks for HoFers that should be?

well he's not a player but Hank Stram pops into mind
 

THUMPER

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fiveandcounting;2846733 said:
well he's not a player but Hank Stram pops into mind

Good choice. I never thought of him as a great coach, a very good one but not a great one.
 

2much2soon

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I was around back in the day, in the '70s, as a rabid, child, Cowboys fan. I hated seeing the Steelers punk the Cowboys every time they played them. Even once in the pre-season as I recall.

It used to make me physically ill.

But you people hating on Lynn Swann only makes me remember why he is in the HOF; he made big plays in the biggest games, consistently.

Dallas couldn't stop him when it counted in those 2 SBs.

Hate him or not, he was the epitomy of clutch. And in a league that plays for championships, clutch counts.
 

BAT

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Chuck Howley, Harvey Martin and Jerry Kramer should be in.
 

THUMPER

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BAT;2846822 said:
Chuck Howley, Harvey Martin and Jerry Kramer should be in.

I'm interested in why you think Kramer should be in. He was a very good player but there are other OLs from that era who I think were better that are still waiting. John Niland comes to mind as does the guy I brought up earlier, Jeff Van Note.

Just curious.

Totally agree on Howley & Martin, they should have been in a LONG time ago.
 

tyke1doe

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JackMagist;2845695 said:
I would point out that it is the Hall of FAME not the Hall of Accomplishment.

Or Hall of Stats.

I think Lynn Swann deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. You can't write NFL history and leave him or the Steelers out. Nor can you leave out his fabulous game against the Cowboys in Super Bowl 10. :mad:
 

tyke1doe

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2much2soon;2846814 said:
I was around back in the day, in the '70s, as a rabid, child, Cowboys fan. I hated seeing the Steelers punk the Cowboys every time they played them. Even once in the pre-season as I recall.

It used to make me physically ill.

But you people hating on Lynn Swann only makes me remember why he is in the HOF; he made big plays in the biggest games, consistently.

Dallas couldn't stop him when it counted in those 2 SBs.

Hate him or not, he was the epitomy of clutch. And in a league that plays for championships, clutch counts.

:clap:

Agreed.
 

HoleInTheRoof

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Art Monk.

He was consistant and good for a long time.

Never great.

The Hall should be reserved for greatness.
 
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