Lets compare SOLBs

[JIGGYFLY]

What fans are looking for from that SLOB is not another Ware but a Tony Tolbert and 8-10 sack guy who was costinet in his play and could be counted on to take advantage of the double and triple teams on Ware

So why not draft a DE who can do that and cause havoc in the run game?

Why is Spencer the only one catching heat for not taking advantage?

 

[Kangaroo]

So why not draft a DE who can do that and cause havoc in the run game?

Why is Spencer the only one catching heat for not taking advantage?

because the job of the SLOB is pass rush the job of a 3-4 de is about giving those LB the ability to rush the passer. Most 3-4 DE average 1-4 sacks a year

 

[Hoofbite]

It's not going against the cap for several years so it's really not that big of a deal and the following season we might have been able to address a few more pressing needs trough the draft so we can look for a replacement there, Spencer might have improved to the point where he's worth his asking price or someone better might be available in FA.

We already have several needs on this team, Franchise him and we give our selves another year to figure out where we want to go at OLB without creating another, it's far more preferable then over paying someone for a long term deal for what's probably going to be the same production at best

If you sign a guy longterm, you can manipulate the contract to be favorable for a number of years.

If you franchise him, you cannot. You guarantee that amount this year.

Either the guy is worth a long-term contract or he isn't. If he's not, then he's not worth the franchise tag. You don't use the tag as a means of delaying the inevitable for a season. That's just ridiculous.

If you use the tag and he plays lights you, you've just cost yourself more money the following offseason for a guy who's had a history of good play, piss poor play and great play in a franchise year.

 

[TheRat]

Here's another fact that should be considered.

Anthony Spencer: Only starting SOLB to play opposite of DeMarcus Ware.

greg ellis

 

[shockandroll]

I think Spencer is a "good" but not "great" OLB.

If the Cowboys had a chance to get someone better, I would support the move, but I wouldn't diss them staying with Spencer either.

Same, as long as they don't have to overpay him.

 

[Stash]

It's not going against the cap for several years so it's really not that big of a deal and the following season we might have been able to address a few more pressing needs trough the draft so we can look for a replacement there, Spencer might have improved to the point where he's worth his asking price or someone better might be available in FA.

We already have several needs on this team, Franchise him and we give our selves another year to figure out where we want to go at OLB without creating another, it's far more preferable then over paying someone for a long term deal for what's probably going to be the same production at best

First you mention franchise tag and then say it won't count for several years? I'd re-check your cap facts on that.

I'd prefer to draft a young player with potential and upside for about $2 million per year than to spend $7 million plus for average, to say nothing of what effort Spencer will give once he gets big guaranteed money.

 

[Hoofbite]

greg ellis

Greg Ellis is starting?

Hell, is he still playing?

 

[Ren]

If you sign a guy longterm, you can manipulate the contract to be favorable for a number of years.

If you franchise him, you cannot. You guarantee that amount this year.

Either the guy is worth a long-term contract or he isn't. If he's not, then he's not worth the franchise tag. You don't use the tag as a means of delaying the inevitable for a season. That's just ridiculous.

If you use the tag and he plays lights you, you've just cost yourself more money the following offseason for a guy who's had a history of good play, piss poor play and great play in a franchise year.

But you're not guaranteed they play up to that contract no matter how friendly it is. If it comes down to FA then we're going to have to over pay for someone no matter what and we're not really in a great position in regards to other needs to spend yet another premium pick on a OLB.
So it really comes down to if you want to over pay someone for a year or for several years, to me it's a no brainer if you got to overpay someone do it for a season and have the contract of the books as soon as possible with no dead money

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Man, people really fade away once they leave here. Except Anthony fasano and Kevin Burnett.

And I think I saw RW11 put a killer block on someone a few weeks ago

 

[JIGGYFLY]

because the job of the SLOB is pass rush the job of a 3-4 de is about giving those LB the ability to rush the passer. Most 3-4 DE average 1-4 sacks a year

That is not there only job, go look at what the Steelers DE's have averaged or the Patriots.

Most DE in the a 3/4 average 4 sacks a year we get about 1.5 so yeah that position is in need of a bigger upgrade because Spencer is about average at his position.

 

[Hoofbite]

Man, people really fade away once they leave here. Except Anthony fasano and Kevin Burnett.

And I think I saw RW11 put a killer block on someone a few weeks ago

:laugh2:

 

[Deep_Freeze]

That is not there only job, go look at what the Steelers DE's have averaged or the Patriots.

Most DE in the a 3/4 average 4 sacks a year we get about 1.5 so yeah that position is in need of a bigger upgrade because Spencer is about average at his position.

Don't know why we needed another thread to say the same things all over again, but anyway, both positions need an upgrade. The main difference that you have a tendency to ignore is we would be substantially upgrading Spencer's pay in the process of keeping him. We are just not spending much on our DEs, whereas Spencer would probably get a contract close to 2-3 of our DEs combined per year.

 

[Hoofbite]

But you're not guaranteed they play up to that contract no matter how friendly it is. If it comes down to FA then we're going to have to over pay for someone no matter what and we're not really in a great position in regards to other needs to spend yet another premium pick on a OLB.
So it really comes down to if you want to over pay someone for a year or for several years, to me it's a no brainer if you got to overpay someone do it for a season and have the contract of the books as soon as possible with no dead money

You're right, there's no guarantee to do anything, including play up to the Franchise Tag salary.

I'm not sure why you assume the team will have to overpay no matter what.

They didn't overpay for a safety. They got a hell of a bargain in Abe and Sensy has been playing well, too. They didn't overpay for Coleman or Spears.

And it's not just overpaying for one year vs. several.

If you tag him and he explodes, you've dramatically increased the price to retain him the following season.

10M + Difference between long-term now long-term later.

Either he's worth keeping or he's not. You don't tag a guy to find out.

 

[Ren]

You're right, there's no guarantee to do anything, including play up to the Franchise Tag salary.

I'm not sure why you assume the team will have to overpay no matter what.

They didn't overpay for a safety. They got a hell of a bargain in Abe and Sensy has been playing well, too. They didn't overpay for Coleman or Spears.

And it's not just overpaying for one year vs. several.

If you tag him and he explodes, you've dramatically increased the price to retain him the following season.

10M + Difference between long-term now long-term later.

Either he's worth keeping or he's not. You don't tag a guy to find out.

The safety position don't change much from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and most FS can play SS and vice versa so there's always going to be a bigger marked and more chances to get someone cheap. We need a 3-4 OLB if he walks which means slim pickings for us and jackpot for player like Spencer if more then 1 team is looking for one. He'll be one of the better 3-4 OLBs available in FA

You don't tag him to find out about him, we already know what we're getting with him you tag him to buy your self another year to let you upgrade your team without adding another hole to it.

 

[TheRat]

Greg Ellis is starting?

Hell, is he still playing?

I thought you meant historically

 

[burmafrd]

Looking at what we NEED is the key right now.

Next draft a primary need will be Center since unless Kowalski is thought to be a real improvement on Costa we need a good one. FA would be a possibility but you can get a real good Center in the second round probably. So that would leave the first rd spot for a shot at replacing Spencer.

If the boys believe that Nagy and Arkin are our future at guard then the only spot left to improve is Center.

As regards the rest of the team CB is a thought; depending on whether they are going to keep Newman. Outside of that there really is not any big need right now.

I agree that DE might be something to think about but we did resign Spears; and Hatcher. Now an upgrade there would be a good thing as well.

So you have Center, OLB (if they do not think Butler can get it done); DE; and maybe Guard if they are unsure of either Arkin or Nagy.

Between FA and the Draft it is not unreasonable to get 4 improvements or replacements next year.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Looking at what we NEED is the key right now.

Next draft a primary need will be Center since unless Kowalski is thought to be a real improvement on Costa we need a good one. FA would be a possibility but you can get a real good Center in the second round probably. So that would leave the first rd spot for a shot at replacing Spencer.

If the boys believe that Nagy and Arkin are our future at guard then the only spot left to improve is Center.

As regards the rest of the team CB is a thought; depending on whether they are going to keep Newman. Outside of that there really is not any big need right now.

I agree that DE might be something to think about but we did resign Spears; and Hatcher. Now an upgrade there would be a good thing as well.

So you have Center, OLB (if they do not think Butler can get it done); DE; and maybe Guard if they are unsure of either Arkin or Nagy.

Between FA and the Draft it is not unreasonable to get 4 improvements or replacements next year.

Well I guess I'm more greedy when it comes to needs/wants.

An interior OL would be needed, BPA whether its a C or a G(2nd or 3rd). What we do with Spencer will be huge(1st or 2nd if he walks), later round pick if he stays cause we need one anyway. CB(1st or 2nd) is a big need and S (2nd or 3rd) should be high if a BPA ball hawk is there to be had.

LBs are the engine of a 3-4, I could see a FA ILB to rotate with or maybe a late round pick. Also a DE(3rd or 4th), Coleman starts but is getting up there, and Spears ain't going to cut it. I also want a QB to develop(4th).

Guess thats a long list, but most can be done with FAs and a good draft. That list is also the reason why I would like to resign Spencer, so we would have less needs, but the money it would cost makes the decision there real tough cause of the situations we already know about.

 

[Hoofbite]

The safety position don't change much from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and most FS can play SS and vice versa so there's always going to be a bigger marked and more chances to get someone cheap. We need a 3-4 OLB if he walks which means slim pickings for us and jackpot for player like Spencer if more then 1 team is looking for one. He'll be one of the better 3-4 OLBs available in FA

You don't tag him to find out about him, we already know what we're getting with him you tag him to buy your self another year to let you upgrade your team without adding another hole to it.

But you severely limit your opportunity to upgrade the team in other areas by consuming 10M on one guy.

You don't really think Dallas can fill all of it's holes in the draft do you?

You gotta believe they re-up Sensy and Elam if they can. There's probably a few other guys who they will bring back.

What does that leave after keeping the guys that are slated to be FA?

Whatever number that might be, take 10M from it.

I guess we just don't agree. I don't see the Franchise Tag as a tool to put off replacing a player by 1 year. I think that's a pretty irrational way to look at the Tag. Aside from not having an additional position to fill, what are the positives of that scenario?

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I agree. I think he is doing fine but would not be opposed should the spot be upgraded. At this time I would not think that would be a priority pick for the Cowboys

and that's the tricky part. we could spend a first on a DE/OLB, but that's also a first that could've been spent else where. then what do we do if he isn't as good as Spencer?

 

[Hoofbite]

and that's the tricky part. we could spend a first on a DE/OLB, but that's also a first that could've been spent else where. then what do we do if he isn't as good as Spencer?

The same thing you'd do if the player wasn't as good as the guy he was replacing at any of the other positions. Keep looking for a better option.