Let's look at this without bias.

[Clove]

I have looked at almost every OLB prospect in the country for draft day. I just can't seem to figure this one out.

None of us like Chad Greenway, right? At the combine he ran a 4.7 something, but at his Pro-Day, I believe he ran a 4.57 which is great. Now, he didn't impress me at the senior bowl, but that's one game.

Here's the thing.. If you want a pure OLB, and you like Bobby Carpenter, then tell me why? Is it because he received WAY more face time because of A.J.Hawk and their having the best LB core in the country crap? AJ Hawk was the reason for all the POPULARITY.

But let's look at this without a prejudice eye if you can..

Chad Greenway - 156 tackles - 10 for loss - 3 ints - 2 sacks.
A.J. Hawk - 121 tackles - 16 for loss - 9 sacks
Bobby Carpenter- 49 tackles - 10 for loss - 8 sacks
Thomas Howard - 85 tackles - 7 for loss - 3 sacks - 1 int

THese are your top "Traditional" outside linebackers and Greenway put up the best numbers.

I'm not saying draft Greenway if he slips to us, but don't be mad if we do.

 

[Sitting Bull]

Valid question. I personally actually keep a journal of players that stand out to me throughout the college football season, regardless of year, team or position. Once the NFL season ends, I cross-reference my list of standouts with their projected draft-worthiness, further consider the type of player I believe the Cowboys are drafting these days, and then develop my wishlist. Using that forumla, I locked in on Carpenter. I readily admit that he benefitted from a great team, lots of exposure and I probably over-value the Parcells/Dad connection.

Greenway never stood out to me in the Iowa games I saw, and his speed and strength numbers do not seem to justify his mock position.

Stats are great, but everyone knows they are but one data point. I love Abilene Christian's Danieal Manning but have to admit I'm concerned his multitude of defensive and special teams TDs are the product of playing in Div I-AA.

Greenway may well be a star. He's just not mine in this draft...

 

[Rack]

Here's the thing.. If you want a pure OLB, and you like Bobby Carpenter, then tell me why?

Cuz I've seen him play. He's a great football player.


Stats can be misleading. If you ONLY go by stats, then you have no valid argument. Carpenter is better then Greenway.


Darrin Hambrick had 154 tackles for us once. Was he a great LB?

Scott Fujita had over 100 tackles a couple of times for the Chiefs. Is he a great LB?


High amounts of tackles does not mean you're a great LB.

 

[ghst187]

I just think that Carpenter's game translates well to the pros. Great size and speed. He is ready, willing, able, and even likes to mix it up with the big OLs. He can take them on. I don't think Greenway can do that. I don't think that playing on a great team or next to AJ Hawk exaggerated the player that Carpenter was at OSU. Perhaps playing next to Carpenter enhanced what Hawk was able to do? Aren't Carpenter's stats missing a few games from his injury?
I watched a ton of OSU games and sure I noticed and liked Hawk, but I remember Carpenter really standing out also and being all over the field.
I just think that Carpenter will be a better pro. I think he will be a very good pro and fiery leader that gives a defense some nastiness. He's a hard-nosed, competitive guy.

 

[MiStar]

Chad Greenway - 156 tackles - 10 for loss - 3 ints - 2 sacks.
A.J. Hawk - 121 tackles - 16 for loss - 9 sacks
Bobby Carpenter- 49 tackles - 10 for loss - 8 sacks
Thomas Howard - 85 tackles - 7 for loss - 3 sacks - 1 int

First of all, don't make a statistical argument using statistical catagories in which the statical category in question is not listed for all the players involved.

In this instance, you have interceptions listed for Greenway and Howard, but not for Hawk and Carpenter. Just off the top of my head, I can remember at least one interception that Hawk had.

It may be nitpicking, but presenting incomplete statistics can be very misleading.


As to my actual opinion on Greenway, I'm very impressed with his coverage and ball skills, but not much else. He's basically a slower, yet slightly more physical version of Derrick Johnson. He runs around and makes a lot of tackles 4 and 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage, which is all good and well except that other teams continure to pick up first downs in spite of the tackles he makes.

Furthermore, simply posting overall statistics is hardly an indicator of success on the field. Tim McGarigle from Northwestern has posted an unbelievable number of tackles over the course of his career, yet he is hardly considered an elite prospect. If you wanted to post a statistic with a modicrum or relavance, you should post the number of tackles per snap taken. No one cares about the number of completions that a quarterback has, they care about his completion percentage. The same goes for runningbacks, where the most telling stat is yards per carry. The same applies to defense.

 

[Bobo]

Greenway looks like more of a finess LB to me. More of a 4-3 Will. Carpenter is more smash mouth, and has been more of a pass rusher. I think he'd make a good 3-4 OLB. This seems to be the consensus thought on the 2 guys, and it's what most saw when watching them. Just gotta find out where the fit best.

 

[Clove]

All good points. I was just making sure we didn't get caught up in the Ohio State football team, since they received alot of TV time. Not saying that smart fans do this, but alot of people listen to the commentators and they instantly jump on a bandwagon without having an opinion of their own.

I've not seen Greenway play except in the Senior bowl, and he did nothing there, but I needed some perspective on people who have watched them both extensively.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

First of all, don't make a statistical argument using statistical catagories in which the statical category in question is not listed for all the players involved.

In this instance, you have interceptions listed for Greenway and Howard, but not for Hawk and Carpenter. Just off the top of my head, I can remember at least one interception that Hawk had.

It may be nitpicking, but presenting incomplete statistics can be very misleading.


As to my actual opinion on Greenway, I'm very impressed with his coverage and ball skills, but not much else. He's basically a slower, yet slightly more physical version of Derrick Johnson. He runs around and makes a lot of tackles 4 and 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage, which is all good and well except that other teams continure to pick up first downs in spite of the tackles he makes.

Furthermore, simply posting overall statistics is hardly an indicator of success on the field. Tim McGarigle from Northwestern has posted an unbelievable number of tackles over the course of his career, yet he is hardly considered an elite prospect. If you wanted to post a statistic with a modicrum or relavance, you should post the number of tackles per snap taken. No one cares about the number of completions that a quarterback has, they care about his completion percentage. The same goes for runningbacks, where the most telling stat is yards per carry. The same applies to defense.

You're right about college stats meaning little, especially tackles. You have to remember that different schools account for what constitutes a "tackle" differently and some schools' SIDs are notorious for inflating totals to get a better shot at postseason awards for players.

 

[VACowboy]

Bobby Carpenter: (LB) 6-3, 255 - Ohio State
(Didn't work out at the Combine because of a broken ankle he suffered in the second to last game of the season, but he ran around 4.6 at his pro, and he wasn't 100%.)
Fifth on his team in tackles with 49 (AJ Hawk had 121), 10.5 for a loss and secoond in sacks with 8 (Hawk and Kudla each had 9.5 - OSU evidently doesn't record hurries). He broke up two passes. He had his sacks against: Miami - 1, Texas - 0, SD State - 2, Iowa - 1, Penn State - 0, MI State - 4, Indiana - 0, Minnesota - 0, Illinois - 0, Northwestern - 0, Notre Dame - DNP. Kudla sacked Vince Young zero times and Hawk failed to record a sack against SDSU. All three were shut out against Penn State, Minnesota and Michigan. Bottom Line: Carpenter is big, strong, tenacious and extremely versatile. He played every linebacker position on the field and put his hand on the ground as a down pass rusher. On a team with a superstar LB, a full-time pass-rusher at DE and a tackling machinne at MLB, Carpenter produced. He was the utility man, the grunt, and he did his job well. If there's a knock on him it's the broken ankle he suffered in the team's second to last game. For my money, he's the burly, ill-tempered mouth puncher that we need on the strong side.

 

[MiStar]

Bobby Carpenter: (LB) 6-3, 255 - Ohio State
(Didn't work out at the Combine because of a broken ankle he suffered in the second to last game of the season, but he ran around 4.6 at his pro, and he wasn't 100%.)
Fifth on his team in tackles with 49 (AJ Hawk had 121), 10.5 for a loss and secoond in sacks with 8 (Hawk and Kudla each had 9.5 - OSU evidently doesn't record hurries). He broke up two passes. He had his sacks against: Miami - 1, Texas - 0, SD State - 2, Iowa - 1, Penn State - 0, MI State - 4, Indiana - 0, Minnesota - 0, Illinois - 0, Northwestern - 0, Notre Dame - DNP. Kudla sacked Vince Young zero times and Hawk failed to record a sack against SDSU. All three were shut out against Penn State, Minnesota and Michigan. Bottom Line: Carpenter is big, strong, tenacious and extremely versatile. He played every linebacker position on the field and put his hand on the ground as a down pass rusher. On a team with a superstar LB, a full-time pass-rusher at DE and a tackling machinne at MLB, Carpenter produced. He was the utility man, the grunt, and he did his job well. If there's a knock on him it's the broken ankle he suffered in the team's second to last game. For my money, he's the burly, ill-tempered mouth puncher that we need on the strong side.

Where did you get this info?

 

[ghst187]

Bobby Carpenter: (LB) 6-3, 255 - Ohio State
the burly, ill-tempered mouth puncher that we need on the strong side.

I like that.

 

[VACowboy]

Where did you get this info?

Various websites, mostly OSU football.

 

[burmafrd]

One factor about Greenway: last year Iowa replaced their ENTIRE D line. They stank the place up early on, were somewhat better by the end of the year. THAT makes a big difference for LBs.

 

[MiStar]

One factor about Greenway: last year Iowa replaced their ENTIRE D line. They stank the place up early on, were somewhat better by the end of the year. THAT makes a big difference for LBs.

True, but he'd have to deal with blockers getting to the second level in a 3-4.

 

[burmafrd]

Yes, but its clear that when your D line sucks then that is going to affect how the LB plays. If you would have watched the PREVIOUS year when Iowa had a senior, VERY good D line you would have seen a different Greenway.
I don't care how good a LB you are, IF your D line sucks you are in trouble.

 

[MiStar]

I watched him his Junior year too. He was only the third best player on that team, behind Roth and Babineaux, imo.

 

[junk]

I watched him his Junior year too. He was only the third best player on that team, behind Roth and Babineaux, imo.

Roth was/is overrated as well.

I thought Hodge definitely outplayed him at times this year as well.

 

[Justis]

I actually do like Greenway. I like Lawson better but I'd have no problem with him. Carpenter if anything hurt his stock by having to play beside Hawk. He's a beast of a player with great size, speed, pass-rush ability, and one hell of a work ethic. Honestly I don't think we can go wrong with LBers.

 

[Clove]

I actually do like Greenway. I like Lawson better but I'd have no problem with him. Carpenter if anything hurt his stock by having to play beside Hawk. He's a beast of a player with great size, speed, pass-rush ability, and one hell of a work ethic. Honestly I don't think we can go wrong with LBers.

I agree there - it's sort of like Ware VS Merriman. Either way, you're going to end up with a great player.

 

[ghst187]

Roth was/is overrated as well.

I thought Hodge definitely outplayed him at times this year as well.

I have to agree, Hodge is the only LB from Iowa that I liked.