Let's talk about the defense some more

[Sydla]

The reality is that the defense is what it is. You just have to hope that it's not bad enough that it prevents you from at least staying in the WC race. But looking bigger picture, seeing that game last night should have made you realize how far, or better yet, how many holes we have on defense.

Someone in another thread referred to the middle of the defense (DTs LBs Ss) as the "spine" of the defense. When you look at ours, it's really somewhat disheartening. Compare our "spine" to that of the Eagles, for example.

Their DTs are Cox and Jernigan. Their LBs aren't big names but are very effective as a group. And they have two good to very good safeties in Jenkins and McLeod.

We have one DT probably worth anything. Lee is a very good LB but that's about it at this point and our safeties aren't very good, especially Heath.

You watch that game and you see how their spine (or even the Panthers for that matter) spine plays, and it's night and day and you realize man, just how far we are away from being a really good defense. The speed, the talent that both defenses last night showed was impressive. DTs collapsing the pocket, LBs and Ss attacking the LOS and shutting down the run.

Now scheme plays a part in that, as both teams last night are very aggressive in what they do and we are not. So we are likely going to look "slower" just because of our style. But just being rational about it, the talent levels are pretty stark.

The front office needs to have a real plan this offseason because they pretty much have to revamp the entire spine of our defense if they have any hope of being able to field a legit Top 10ish defense in the nar future.

 

[HungryLion]

 

[CyberB0b]

We have some nice young players in the secondary. That is about all I can say.

Defensive line: DLaw and David Irving are really the only ones I'm interested in keeping.
LB: Aging Sean Lee, Inexperienced/Broken Jaylon Smith, Anthony JAG Hitchens, Justin Journeyman Durant, Kyle Wilber, Wilson, and some other garbage. Almost no talent, and almost no depth here.
CB: By far our deepest and most talented unit.
S: What can we say? Byron Jones can play man against inferior athletes, and that's about it. He's unwilling to make tackles, and can't play zone. Heath is all over the place and isn't an NFL starter. Really no depth here, either.

I can't believe how thin and devoid of talent this defense is. Marinelli is well past his prime, as well. It looks like a really bleak situation.

 

[Sydla]

We have some nice young players in the secondary. That is about all I can say.

Defensive line: DLaw and David Irving are really the only ones I'm interested in keeping.
LB: Aging Sean Lee, Inexperienced/Broken Jaylon Smith, Anthony JAG Hitchens, Justin Journeyman Durant, Kyle Wilber, Wilson, and some other garbage. Almost no talent, and almost no depth here.
CB: By far our deepest and most talented unit.
S: What can we say? Byron Jones can play man against inferior athletes, and that's about it. He's unwilling to make tackles, and can't play zone. Heath is all over the place and isn't an NFL starter. Really no depth here, either.

I can't believe how thin and devoid of talent this defense is. Marinelli is well past his prime, as well. It looks like a really bleak situation.

I am bullish on the secondary, especially if Woods is given a chance to play more at S. I think he was a steal in this draft.

I also am not totally down on the DEs, although we still lack a real speed rush freak. But I think you can live with the DEs, especially if Lawrence continues to show to be a stud and Irving continues to play well.

The rest of the defense is a real nightmare IMO.

 

[Alexander]

The front office needs to have a real plan this offseason because they pretty much have to revamp the entire spine of our defense if they have any hope of being able to field a legit Top 10ish defense in the nar future.

I don't think this front office has the first clue how to revamp the entire spine of this defense.

They go off the whim of the coaches. Until that side of the football gets a quality coach who can also spot talent, good luck.

 

[Sydla]

I don't think this front office has the first clue how to revamp the entire spine of this defense.

They go off the whim of the coaches. Until that side of the football gets a quality coach who can also spot talent, good luck.

Unfortunately, I agree.

And I think it's going to take a bottoming out of this season for them to even think about a total overhaul of the defensive coaching staff.

 

[bark]

Linebackers are needed in the worst way.
Safety I don't feel so bad about. Just a matter of time till either awuzie or woods take over there for Heath.
A new defense philosophy would be nice.
The one free agent I wanted was Jonathan Hankins. Would have made a difference in the middle. At least we were able to pick up paea

 

[DogFace]

Give Swartz our players and they’d be even better.
“They work well as a group” translates to the scheme isn’t inherently flawed.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Now scheme plays a part in that, as both teams last night are very aggressive in what they do and we are not.

What crazy is the Rod doesn't like to blitz and wants to rely on the four man (or even three man) rush--Philly and Carolina, on the other hand, were sending blitzes like crazy--yet, somehow, we are still getting pressure on the QB (top ten, in fact). Though, I do wish he'd send more on third & long, but I don't think he trusts the man coverage.

I'm convinced the main issue is with the LBs and hopefully the return off Lee and an improving Hitchens will address this.

The safeties are not great, but there is some hope in that Woods will begin to play more to spell Heath. I like the idea of trying Awuzie at safety and moving Bryon to CB, but I'm not sure if he's ready or can stay on the field

I would like to see Brown moved to slot, where he has played better ball and he can get away with more of his handsy style. Lewis coming on is going to help a lot (I love his tackling). So Byron & Lewis on the outside with Brown in the slot and Scandrick coming in on dime packages is, I think, our best bet.

We have a opening at 1-tech now and I'd like to see Price get a shot at starting. He's listed at 315 and has flashed in limited snaps. I think he could help against the run.

Bottom line is we have options, the question is will the FO consider them.

 

[Chuck 54]

The front office made the first big move by doing what all fans were calling for, letting go of the vets in the secondary and going for youth, but no one wants to go through the growing pains of that, which is something to be expected. We thought our LBs would be just as good as last year with Jaylon getting some experience here and there...no one expected to play early games without Hitchins or Lee. The DL should have been better or just as good. We basically swapped out McClain for Paea....injury killed us just as it has in the past with McClain, and the non-athletic plodders at the #1 that had helped us vs the run were all gone, much to fan delight.

Just one of those years where things have fallen poorly for us so far.

 

[Sydla]

The front office made the first big move by doing what all fans were calling for, letting go of the vets in the secondary and going for youth, but no one wants to go through the growing pains of that, which is something to be expected. We thought our LBs would be just as good as last year with Jaylon getting some experience here and there...no one expected to play early games without Hitchins or Lee. The DL should have been better or just as good. We basically swapped out McClain for Paea....injury killed us just as it has in the past with McClain, and the non-athletic plodders at the #1 that had helped us vs the run were all gone, much to fan delight.

Just one of those years where things have fallen poorly for us so far.

You watch those two defenses last night and then watch ours and unless you are totally in the tank for the Cowboys, the realization is that we are pretty far from being either of those defenses both from a talent perspective and a scheme perspective. This isn't about bad breaks, it's about a bad plan.

The Eagles, in just two seasons, went from a torched 3-4 defense to now a likely elite defense. When they canned Kelly, they brought in a new DC, who brought in a new scheme and they went out and added quality players (not bargain bin guys like Carroll and Paea) in FA (Bradham, McLeod) and in trades (Jernigan, Darby). They have done a nice job in drafting on defense as well with Douglas playing OK for them as a rookie CB and Barnett logging time at DE and getting a sack last night. They supplemented Cox and Graham and Jenkins with better talent, like we should have supplemented Lawrence and Lee.

They rebuilt on the fly in basically one season (two offseasons). We apparently, though, have to take the "long" view and understand that rebuilding this defense is a "process" and revamping the secondary was just the first step and the rest will come in the next few offseasons.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

You watch those two defenses last night and then watch ours and unless you are totally in the tank for the Cowboys, the realization is that we are pretty far from being either of those defenses both from a talent perspective and a scheme perspective. This isn't about bad breaks, it's about a bad plan.

The Eagles, in just two seasons, went from a torched 3-4 defense to now a likely elite defense. When they canned Kelly, they brought in a new DC, who brought in a new scheme and they went out and added quality players (not bargain bin guys like Carroll and Paea) in FA (Bradham, McLeod) and in trades (Jernigan, Darby). They have done a nice job in drafting on defense as well with Douglas playing OK for them as a rookie CB and Barnett logging time at DE and getting a sack last night. They supplemented Cox and Graham and Jenkins with better talent, like we should have supplemented Lawrence and Lee.

They rebuilt on the fly in 2 seasons. We apparently, though, have to take the "long" view and understand that rebuilding this defense is a "process" and revamping the secondary was just the first step and the rest will come in the next few offseasons.

By the time the defense is fixed ( and I'm not sure it ever will be) it'll be time to fix the offense. You can already see some cracks on that side of the ball.

 

[Sydla]

By the time the defense is fixed ( and I'm not sure it ever will be) it'll be time to fix the offense. You can already see some cracks on that side of the ball.

I mean that's a real possibility. We already likely need a new TE or two. We may need to upgrade OT or OG, depending on the eventual resting place for Collins. Who knows what's going on with Elliott and if his suspension holds, he's one dumb move from a longer one. And Bryant is getting up there in age and production.

We literally wasted Romo's prime years on bad coaching, bad defense and we seem to be repeating the exercise again with Prescott.

 

[Denim Chicken]

You watch those two defenses last night and then watch ours and unless you are totally in the tank for the Cowboys, the realization is that we are pretty far from being either of those defenses both from a talent perspective and a scheme perspective. This isn't about bad breaks, it's about a bad plan.

The Eagles, in just two seasons, went from a torched 3-4 defense to now a likely elite defense. When they canned Kelly, they brought in a new DC, who brought in a new scheme and they went out and added quality players (not bargain bin guys like Carroll and Paea) in FA (Bradham, McLeod) and in trades (Jernigan, Darby). They have done a nice job in drafting on defense as well with Douglas playing OK for them as a rookie CB and Barnett logging time at DE and getting a sack last night. They supplemented Cox and Graham and Jenkins with better talent, like we should have supplemented Lawrence and Lee.

They rebuilt on the fly in basically one season (two offseasons). We apparently, though, have to take the "long" view and understand that rebuilding this defense is a "process" and revamping the secondary was just the first step and the rest will come in the next few offseasons.

They've also had the luxury of playing the 26th, 22nd, 32nd, 31st ranked offenses before losing to Green Bay (who hung 24 on them) and playing a good game (albeit a close one) against Carolina. Let not anoint the Eagles defense as elite just yet.

 

[TheHerd]

I love this clip. This clearly shows the GB method of holding. They teach this and there was some discussion about this technique. The center immediately gets his hands on the jersey of the defender, and keeps everything inside hi shoulders while leaning into the defender. When the defenders tried to shed, the centers uses his grip to maintain balance and never lets go of the hold. As long as he keeps his hands inside and his body close to the defender, this is rarely called unless the defender falls down.

 

[TheHerd]

They've also had the luxury of playing the 26th, 22nd, 32nd, 31st ranked offenses before losing to Green Bay (who hung 24 on them) and playing a good game (albeit a close one) against Carolina. Let not anoint the Eagles defense as elite just yet.

They're not elite, but the front 7 is good and if Fletcher Cox is on the field they can get a big play anytime.

As an exercise, if we could swap defenses with Philly when we play them, I would predict an annihilation.

 

[Denim Chicken]

They're not elite, but the front 7 is good and if Fletcher Cox is on the field they can get a big play anytime.

As an exercise, if we could swap defenses with Philly when we play them, I would predict an annihilation.

True, and the big play is what our D is missing. Turnovers are a problem yet again.

 

[Alexander]

Let not anoint the Eagles defense as elite just yet.

They are good enough and that good enough is a world away from what we could even hope for with Dallas' sorry bunch. Schwartz has a defense that believes in what he is doing and it shows.

 

[Sydla]

They've also had the luxury of playing the 26th, 22nd, 32nd, 31st ranked offenses before losing to Green Bay (who hung 24 on them) and playing a good game (albeit a close one) against Carolina. Let not anoint the Eagles defense as elite just yet.

Even if you want to argue that they aren't "elite" they are still very good. Much better than we are. And to try to argue that they didn't rebuild that defense on the fly in less than 2 years with shrewd signings and trades is just poppycock.

But I get why some want to believe it. Because acknowledging that teams can do things like that would show better management than we have. Here, we have to believe the Cowboys are doing it right with the long, slow rebuild on defense.

 

[Macnalty]

You watch those two defenses last night and then watch ours and unless you are totally in the tank for the Cowboys, the realization is that we are pretty far from being either of those defenses both from a talent perspective and a scheme perspective. This isn't about bad breaks, it's about a bad plan.

The Eagles, in just two seasons, went from a torched 3-4 defense to now a likely elite defense. When they canned Kelly, they brought in a new DC, who brought in a new scheme and they went out and added quality players (not bargain bin guys like Carroll and Paea) in FA (Bradham, McLeod) and in trades (Jernigan, Darby). They have done a nice job in drafting on defense as well with Douglas playing OK for them as a rookie CB and Barnett logging time at DE and getting a sack last night. They supplemented Cox and Graham and Jenkins with better talent, like we should have supplemented Lawrence and Lee.

They rebuilt on the fly in basically one season (two offseasons). We apparently, though, have to take the "long" view and understand that rebuilding this defense is a "process" and revamping the secondary was just the first step and the rest will come in the next few offseasons.

You are looking at an outlier with the eagles, very few transition that easily to a top defense in two seasons. Fletcher Cox is a beast you can build around...