Linebackers Are A Dime A Dozen.

[JonJon]

 

[Bob Sacamano]

That's one area that I will give props to the Skins. They have assembled one of the best coaching staff's that money can buy. And, it doesn't cost em a lick in the cap. The biggest signings, by far, that the Skins have made won't play a down this year.

SS

but there's the saying, no matter how much you polish a turd, it's still a turd

coaching can only take you so far, I personally have never seen a team coached to a Super Bowl

 

[dwmyers]

but there's the saying, no matter how much you polish a turd, it's still a turd

coaching can only take you so far, I personally have never seen a team coached to a Super Bowl

Were you a Cowboy's fan in 1975? Just curious .

David.

 

[im2deep4u]

Guys the reason I wrote this is because the Steelers are still doing the same thing today. I believe its their scheme that makes their Linebackers so good. For example, the Denver Broncos zone blocking. Their offensive line has perfected this blocking technique so that pretty much any RB they stick in the backfield will be successful. Thus the reason they traded Clinton Portis.

I see the Steelers defensive scheme as being the same. They can stick any linebacker in any slot whether it be outside, inside, strongside or weakside and still be successful. I was not trying to downgrade the importance of the linebacker position but I don't see the EMERGENCY need that we here on this
forum is placing on drafting a Linebacker?

I would not draft a Linebacker at #18. Just my opionion. I would draft a OT or OG, FS, WR, CB, DT,LB.

And yes Urlacher is a great Linebacker who did NOT play linebacker in college?

 

[InmanRoshi]

If you want to look at a winning franchise, Patriots have won three times as many Superbowls in the past 5 years as the Steelers with a Top 10 draft pick at OLB and a big money free agent in Willie McGinnest and Rosie Colvin.

Just because Cowher has finally won a Superbowl in 14 tries does not mean he's the model franchise.

 

[Doomsday101]

After we lost Norton we did slide a little... but really it was because we lost Jimmy Johnson rather than Norton, IMO.

After Kenny Norton we had, Robert Jones, wasn't it? Then we got Randall Godfrey, who was a good LB. IMO, Norton wasn't that hard to replace. They might not have been quite as good, but really Norton was the beneficiary of being in the right place at the right time. Those defenses and teams he was on in the early 90's were really, really good. If you put Godfrey in his spot on that '92 team, I think we would've been just fine.

Now take away Haley from that team and I think you would've seen a rapid decline. That's what I'm saying... 43 teams are impacted by DE's while 34 teams are impacted by OLB's.

JMO, though.

LB is important in the 3-4 but they are just as important in the 4-3 you take Urlacher off the Bears D and they are not near as good. Guy who make an impact and have the ability to change the game are important regardless of the position they play. The ideal that LB are a dime a dozen is not true by any means and there role of a LB in the 3-4 or the 4-3 is still a big part of the defense

 

[JIGGYFLY]

If you want to look at a winning franchise, Patriots have won three times as many Superbowls in the past 5 years as the Steelers with a Top 10 draft pick at OLB and a big money free agent in Willie McGinnest and Rosie Colvin.

Just because Cowher has finally won a Superbowl in 14 tries does not mean he's the model franchise.

Colvin has been hurt most of his time with the patriots I do not think he adds to your argument. Mcginest was drafted as a DE and the playmakers of that D has been Vrable and Bruschi 2 players that were not high draft choices.

I have to agree with the original poster it seems that the 3/4 lb,s of todays teams seem to be the lower round tweeners.

 

[MissionCoach]

Everywhere I read it is like the Cowboys must draft a SOLB, why?? Linebackers are a dime a dozen. Lets take a look at the Steelers linebackers.

Now the Steelers has been running the 3-4 scheme for a long time now and back in the day they had Greene, and Greg Lloyd. They let both go and replaced them with Chad Brown and others. Chad Brown wanted more money so then they shipped him off and replaced him. Now the Steelers have Joey Porter drafted in the 3rd round, Larry Foote drafted in the 4th round, Farrior drafted in the 1st round by the Jets in 1997, and Haggans- not drafted.

You would be hard pressed to find a better set of linebackers in the NFL than what Pittsburgh has. Maybe its the Steelers scheme that puts their linebackers in positions to succeed? The Steelers can blitz anyone of their linebackers at any time, and thats what makes them dangerous. And of course all of them can RUN and cover and are sure tacklers. MLB, OLB, SOLB to me are all a dime a dozen. Yes you do have your LT and Singletary, Butkas, and others but in large the Linebackers must play as a collective unit knowing where each other is at all times.

Alot of people on this site is suggesting that the Cowboys need a SOLB. Carpenter, Lawson, Wimbley....etc. Yes they are all good players that produced in colllege. Yes they had good combines and pro day. The numbers add up to draft one on draft day. I say that you give me someone who has a nose for the ball and make plays. There are 117 Division 1 teams in College Football and each team either plays a 4-3 or 3-4 so lets say 117 times 3 equals 351 linebackers in Division 1 alone add in the other divisions and thus you have more linebackers than any other position on the field. And that is why I say they are a dime a dozen.

You can grab a linebacker in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th or undrafted. I just don't see the need for making it a priority when there are other players on the board that we could use.

peace.

I posted this link in a different thread...it supports your LB theory

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/200...fl-draft/3828/

 

[InmanRoshi]

Mcginest was drafted as a DE and the playmakers of that D has been Vrable and Bruschi 2 players that were not high draft choices.

No, he wasn't. He was drafted to play OLB in the 3-4.

This is the problem with the original argument ... you're categorizing all linebackers in a broad brushstroke, but there is a world of difference in the skillsets and their value. When you talk about OLB's in the 3-4, you're talking about pass rushers ... which is always a premium skillset and always go high in the draft. Yeah, maybe the Steelers won one championship with a couple of midround OLB's in a 3-4. The Giants won multiple Superbowl with Lawrence Taylor and Carl Banks. Taylor was the #2 overall pick in the draft, and Carl Banks was the #3 overall pick in the draft. The Ravens drafted Boulware and Suggs with Top 15 picks.

 

[lspain1]

I would not draft a Linebacker at #18. Just my opionion. I would draft a OT or OG, FS, WR, CB, DT,LB.

Wow, im2deep....you are indeed 2deep4me. You are drafting in the 1st round for impact players at impact positions. How many OG's have been drafted at 18 or sooner?

2005 - 0
2004 - 0
2003 - 0
2002 - 0
2001 - 1 (It was Steve Hutchinson)

The Tackle position is an impact position and the 3 OT's drafted between 15-20 in the last 5 years have been impact players.

The Safety position has had two players drafted 15-20 in the last five years. Polamalu and Archuleta are both strong safeties.

Of all the positions you mention, CB, WR, LB and OT predominate in round 1 and there is a reason. This draft is supposedly weak at WR and I'll use that as a reason not to select one at #18. OT would be a reasonable selection at 18 if the right guy was there. The CB position would be a reasonable selection, particularly if it let you move another DB into the FS positon and you fill that hole.

The LB position is an impact position on the 3-4 defense. There are a number of teams selecting behind the Cowboys looking to fill the same position. It seems like good strategy on the Cowboys part for them to fill the highest impact position with the highest impact player. The Cowboys will wait until they see how the board falls out to make a final selection, but I can easily see an LB meeting the impact criteria I just stated.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Were you a Cowboy's fan in 1975? Just curious .

David.

hey, I said personally and no, I wasn't alive till '83

 

[JIGGYFLY]

No, he wasn't. He was drafted to play OLB in the 3-4.

This is the problem with the original argument ... you're categorizing all linebackers in a broad brushstroke, but there is a world of difference in the skillsets and their value. When you talk about OLB's in the 3-4, you're talking about pass rushers ... which is always a premium skillset and always go high in the draft. Yeah, maybe the Steelers won one championship with a couple of midround OLB's in a 3-4. The Giants won multiple Superbowl with Lawrence Taylor and Carl Banks. Taylor was the #2 overall pick in the draft, and Carl Banks was the #3 overall pick in the draft. The Ravens drafted Boulware and Suggs with Top 15 picks.

Hey I could be wrong but I seem to remember him as a DE prospect. You cannot
deny the success of what pittsburg has done drafting tweeners in the lower rounds and anyway you slice it LB is not the reason they did not win a superbowl before last year, they have allways had high quality OLB,s who were not picked in the first round.

 

[skinsscalper]

but there's the saying, no matter how much you polish a turd, it's still a turd

coaching can only take you so far, I personally have never seen a team coached to a Super Bowl

I disagree completely. Case in point, Parcells' guided the Cowboys to the playoffs in his first year in Dallas with virtually the same team that he inherited from the Campo staff. Yes, we were bounced in the first round and Bill drank enough of the kool-aid to stand pat to a certain extent the following year. But, the main difference between the team that Parcells led to the playoffs and the team that Campo did not was purely coaching (and Campo had the almighty Emmitt to boot).

While I agree that you can only polish a turd so much, a good coach can get more out of that turd than an inept one can.

And, to be honest, without Belichek (sp?) and his outstanding coaching staff the Pats don't even sniff a Super Bowl with that roster. I think you HAVE seen a team "coached to a Super Bowl" for three out of the last five years. Whether you choose to acknowledge is up to you. Peace.



SS

 

[DipChit]

The ideal that LB are a dime a dozen is not true by any means and there role of a LB in the 3-4 or the 4-3 is still a big part of the defense

But 4-3 LB's are a "dime a dozen" at least compared to virtually any other group or individual in the starting 22.

They dont need to be able to throw a football like a QB, they dont have to have particularly good speed like CB's and most WR's. They dont have to have any shake and bake moves like most RB's, they dont have to have great hands like a TE, they dont have to be athletic AND be 280 to 340 lbs like linemen, etc etc.

So whats the qualification then? A decent athlete thats what.. mean?

 

[J-DOG]

Times are changing. When Pittsburgh was plucking LBers in later rounds, it was because only a few teams ran the 3-4 and were looking for tweener types to play OLB.

Now, there are a boatload of teams looking for those guys and they are shooting up draft boards.

In a 4-3, I usually agree. Don't waste a lot of resources on LBers. In a scheme predicated on linebacker play, however, I don't mind spending some money/draft picks on them.

You're right on target with those remarks.
For years Pittsburgh was one of the few teams that ran a 3-4.
There are a lot of tweener type DE/LB's. Pittsburgh was in a good situation with thier pick of those types pretty much every year.
I do think there is something to the way they use thier blitz package that we should learn from.
Pittsburgh is the best, and the best by a BIG MARGIN, at timing thier blitz and disquising thier blitz.
Our coaches should be going to school on the Steeler's tapes and trying to learn as much of that as possible.
Another dynamic lb'er with Ware would really help our pass rush overall but our overall scheme of blitzing could be much better.
We need to get Roy involved in blitzing much more in my opinion.
That won't happen until we sure up the FS position and get another speed rush lb'er.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I disagree completely. Case in point, Parcells' guided the Cowboys to the playoffs in his first year in Dallas with virtually the same team that he inherited from the Campo staff. Yes, we were bounced in the first round and Bill drank enough of the kool-aid to stand pat to a certain extent the following year. But, the main difference between the team that Parcells led to the playoffs and the team that Campo did not was purely coaching (and Campo had the almighty Emmitt to boot).

While I agree that you can only polish a turd so much, a good coach can get more out of that turd than an inept one can.

And, to be honest, without Belichek (sp?) and his outstanding coaching staff the Pats don't even sniff a Super Bowl with that roster. I think you HAVE seen a team "coached to a Super Bowl" for three out of the last five years. Whether you choose to acknowledge is up to you. Peace.



SS

the Pat's team that won 3 Super Bowls was pretty talented

Ty Law
Rodney Harrison
Brady
Mike Vrable
Teddy Bruschi
Richard Seymour
Willis McGinnest
Troy Brown for 2 years
Deion Branch
David Givens
Corey Dillon for a year
Ted Washington when he was still good

and Parcells 1st year here was part coaching, part weak schedule, but even then, we got knocked out of the 1st round

 

[Q_the_man]

Wow, im2deep....you are indeed 2deep4me. You are drafting in the 1st round for impact players at impact positions. How many OG's have been drafted at 18 or sooner?

2005 - 0
2004 - 0
2003 - 0
2002 - 0
2001 - 1 (It was Steve Hutchinson)


.

So in reality if u draft an OG at 18 or b4. u would get a great player, since one player was drafted 18 or b4 and became a star

We might draft an OG, looking at the last 5 years u can't go wrong!

 

[Doomsday101]

But 4-3 LB's are a "dime a dozen" at least compared to virtually any other group or individual in the starting 22.

They dont need to be able to throw a football like a QB, they dont have to have particularly good speed like CB's and most WR's. They dont have to have any shake and bake moves like most RB's, they dont have to have great hands like a TE, they dont have to be athletic AND be 280 to 340 lbs like linemen, etc etc.

So whats the qualification then? A decent athlete thats what.. mean?

LB are the guys calling the plays on defense they have to get the lineman set they have to be able to look at the formation and figure out what the offense is doing and adjust. The responsibility range for pass coverage, run stopping and pass rushing. When you have good LB it is easy to say they are a dime a dozen but when your LB play is poor it will kill a defense. Personally I think all the position are of great importance and any weak link on a defense will be exposed and taken advantage of. As for drafting a LB in the 1st rd it happens every year if that players skill level is such to justify taking him in rd 1.