Linebackers

[Sasquatch]

In the lastest round of mock drafts many people, like those on this board, are predicting linebacker. I was wondering if I could get the opinion (pros and cons) of some of the more hardcore drafniks out here on the following prospects:

1. Chad Greenway
2. Bobby Carpenter
3. Manny Lawson
4. Demeco Ryans
5. DQwell Jackson

Thanks.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Personally, I think Bobby Carpenter would be the best fit for this team at the strong side OLB position. He is the biggest of all 5 you mentioned there, and not only does he have the size, but his strength and intensity would be a major plus for this or any team. He is the complete package. He can rush the passer, stop the run, and is pretty good in coverage as well. He has played against top competition for years and I think would be able to step in and make an impact right away. He's my pick for us, maybe not at #18, but if we were to target a LB in the first, I want Carpenter.

I do like Lawson too though. If we somehow didn't end up with or didn't want Carp, I think Lawson would be my next choice. Sure some people say he is a Ware clone and we don't need another DeMarcus on this team, but honestly...how bad would it be to have to great pass rushing LB's on the outside? He's a pretty big guy himself, at about 6'5" 242lbs., depending on where you get your info, and I think would be strong enough to do a decent job against the run as well. He is just another one of those "freak of nature" types and is superior athletically to most of the other OLB choices for as big as he is. He would also bring good energy and intensity to this defense and better pass rushing ability than all the others too. That's my take.

 

[Dayton Cowboy]

Personally, I think Bobby Carpenter would be the best fit for this team at the strong side OLB position. He is the biggest of all 5 you mentioned there, and not only does he have the size, but his strength and intensity would be a major plus for this or any team. He is the complete package. He can rush the passer, stop the run, and is pretty good in coverage as well. He has played against top competition for years and I think would be able to step in and make an impact right away. He's my pick for us, maybe not at #18, but if we were to target a LB in the first, I want Carpenter.

I do like Lawson too though. If we somehow didn't end up with or didn't want Carp, I think Lawson would be my next choice. Sure some people say he is a Ware clone and we don't need another DeMarcus on this team, but honestly...how bad would it be to have to great pass rushing LB's on the outside? He's a pretty big guy himself, at about 6'5" 242lbs., depending on where you get your info, and I think would be strong enough to do a decent job against the run as well. He is just another one of those "freak of nature" types and is superior athletically to most of the other OLB choices for as big as he is. He would also bring good energy and intensity to this defense and better pass rushing ability than all the others too. That's my take.

If I were to have to choose between either Bobby Carpenter and Manny Lawson, it would be Carpenter. The thing that seperates the two in my mind is the fact that Carpenter is experienced as a linebacker so IMO the transition shouldn't be as time consuming. I don't really want to go through the learn on the fly process that was involved with Ware last season.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Definately a good point. I too would prefer Carpenter, and that is a big reason why. The fact that he could come in and make a significant impact right away would be great for this defense. And he is the type of hard nosed, tough guy LB that I like.

 

[jbsg02]

you left out ernie sims

 

[Clove]

Ware was a pretty fast learner while being doubled a ton as a Rookie. BTW, 8 sacks/58 tackles/ 12 QB pressures/ 10 tackles for loss.

I'll take that for a rookie anyday,everyday, and particularly on Sundays and Monday nights. I do like Carpenter though, except if we're going to slam Lawson for his inexperience, then the slamming goes both ways.

Hawk played OLB and put up almost 3 times the tackles and 1 more sack, so maybe Carpenter is overrated. (just looking from both sides of the ball)

 

[MiStar]

1. Chad Greenway - Excellent in coverage, and can chase and tackle from sideline to sideline with the best of them. However, he struggles to disengage from blocks and plays much better in space than he does around the line of scrimmage. His game is very similar to that of Derrick Johnson.

2. Bobby Carpenter - Good all around player, with excellent passrushing abilities. He's big and strong and can hold his own at the point of attack and has tremendus closing speed. He's more effective when playing around the line of scrimmage than when trying to sift through traffic.

3. Manny Lawson - Has the speed to abuse unathletic tackles off the edge, and will throw in the occasional spin move. He doesn't doesn't have the size, leverage, or powerful base needed to stuff blockers at the point of attack. He is essentially a taller Dwight Freeney, without the bulk or the freakishly quick passrushing moves.

4. DeMeco Ryans - Jack of all trades, master of none. He's pretty good at sifting through trash and will rarely miss tackles, but he doesn't have the speed or explosiveness to be a sideline to sideline defender. He's better than average when it comes to sheding blocks and defending the pass. I guess I would call him a righ man's Al Singleton.

5. DQwell Jackson - I haven't seen too much of Jackson, but from what I've seen, he is a tough and instinctive player who will make big plays all over the field. He can make plays in space, or do the dirty work around the line of scrimmage. The best comparison I can come up with is a poor man's Ray Lewis.

 

[dwmyers]

4. DeMeco Ryans - Jack of all trades, master of none. He's pretty good at sifting through trash and will rarely miss tackles, but he doesn't have the speed or explosiveness to be a sideline to sideline defender. He's better than average when it comes to sheding blocks and defending the pass. I guess I would call him a righ man's Al Singleton.

Is DAT the right comparison? Sounds like a just-retired MLB for the Boys to me.

 

[MiStar]

Is DAT the right comparison? Sounds like a just-retired MLB for the Boys to me.

Dat is a pretty good comparison, with DQwell being a bit better at shedding blocks and holding up at the point of attack.

 

[Sasquatch]

1. Chad Greenway - Excellent in coverage, and can chase and tackle from sideline to sideline with the best of them. However, he struggles to disengage from blocks and plays much better in space than he does around the line of scrimmage. His game is very similar to that of Derrick Johnson.

2. Bobby Carpenter - Good all around player, with excellent passrushing abilities. He's big and strong and can hold his own at the point of attack and has tremendus closing speed. He's more effective when playing around the line of scrimmage than when trying to sift through traffic.

3. Manny Lawson - Has the speed to abuse unathletic tackles off the edge, and will throw in the occasional spin move. He doesn't doesn't have the size, leverage, or powerful base needed to stuff blockers at the point of attack. He is essentially a taller Dwight Freeney, without the bulk or the freakishly quick passrushing moves.

4. DeMeco Ryans - Jack of all trades, master of none. He's pretty good at sifting through trash and will rarely miss tackles, but he doesn't have the speed or explosiveness to be a sideline to sideline defender. He's better than average when it comes to sheding blocks and defending the pass. I guess I would call him a righ man's Al Singleton.

5. DQwell Jackson - I haven't seen too much of Jackson, but from what I've seen, he is a tough and instinctive player who will make big plays all over the field. He can make plays in space, or do the dirty work around the line of scrimmage. The best comparison I can come up with is a poor man's Ray Lewis.

Thank you. So how would you rank these players, and would rank them differently if we were seeking a particular type of player for linebacker (pass rusher, ILB, OLB, etc.)?

 

[Sasquatch]

1. Chad Greenway - Excellent in coverage, and can chase and tackle from sideline to sideline with the best of them. However, he struggles to disengage from blocks and plays much better in space than he does around the line of scrimmage. His game is very similar to that of Derrick Johnson.

2. Bobby Carpenter - Good all around player, with excellent passrushing abilities. He's big and strong and can hold his own at the point of attack and has tremendus closing speed. He's more effective when playing around the line of scrimmage than when trying to sift through traffic.

3. Manny Lawson - Has the speed to abuse unathletic tackles off the edge, and will throw in the occasional spin move. He doesn't doesn't have the size, leverage, or powerful base needed to stuff blockers at the point of attack. He is essentially a taller Dwight Freeney, without the bulk or the freakishly quick passrushing moves.

4. DeMeco Ryans - Jack of all trades, master of none. He's pretty good at sifting through trash and will rarely miss tackles, but he doesn't have the speed or explosiveness to be a sideline to sideline defender. He's better than average when it comes to sheding blocks and defending the pass. I guess I would call him a righ man's Al Singleton.

5. DQwell Jackson - I haven't seen too much of Jackson, but from what I've seen, he is a tough and instinctive player who will make big plays all over the field. He can make plays in space, or do the dirty work around the line of scrimmage. The best comparison I can come up with is a poor man's Ray Lewis.

Here's what I've read on these players:

1. Greenway - Good all around player but needs to increase strength to be more effective at dealing with blockers. Very productive college player who is still improving.

2. Carpener - Takes on Carpenter seem to be mixed. Some think he is a good player who is ready for the NFL but one that will not improve beyond his current level. Others have suggested he's overrated form playing alongside Hawk, struggles to shed blocks, and is not a particularly reliable tackler.

3. Lawson - Excellent athlete and good production as a DE. Many seem to think that he will be an excellent pass rushing OLB who has the athletic skills to cover the pass. I've also read that he will not be force in the running game as he is average at stopping the run.

4. Ryans - People seem to think that he is an outstanding football player with average measurables. Many think he needs to bulk up and increase his strength (although his weight seems similar to others). Like Carpenter, the general outlook is that he will be a solid pro but not one who has a lot of room for "improvement."

5. DQwell - Haven't read anything negative about Jackson, except for his size.

In sum, I have no idea who I want the cowboys to pick.

 

[MiStar]

Thank you. So how would you rank these players, and would rank them differently if we were seeking a particular type of player for linebacker (pass rusher, ILB, OLB, etc.)?

Rankings for 3-4 OLB:

1. Carpenter


::Big Gap::


2. Lawson


::Big Gap::


3. Greenway
4. Ryans
5. DQwell

Rankings for 3-4 ILB:

1. DQwell
2. Ryans
3. Greenway
4. Carpenter




::Huge Gap::




5. Lawson



Analysis:
Carpenter is the only player with the capability to stop the run, rush the passer, and drop into coverage from the OLB spot. Lawson can rush the passer, and might be able to cover, but who knows. Everyone else is either too small or too weak to play on the line of scrimmage, and Greenway is the only one of those three with exceptional cover skills.

At ILB, Jackson and Ryans are far and away the best at shedding blocks and making plays, while both are good in zone coverage. Greenway, is a little bit worse at sifting through trash. Carpenter doesn't play as well in space as the top 3, and Lawson has shown no aptitude for playing the middle of the field, nor do I think he will ever be able to do more than chase and tackle from an ILB position.

 

[Sasquatch]

Rankings for 3-4 OLB:

1. Carpenter


::Big Gap::


2. Lawson


::Big Gap::


3. Greenway
4. Ryans
5. DQwell

Rankings for 3-4 ILB:

1. DQwell
2. Ryans
3. Greenway
4. Carpenter




::Huge Gap::




5. Lawson



Analysis:
Carpenter is the only player with the capability to stop the run, rush the passer, and drop into coverage from the OLB spot. Lawson can rush the passer, and might be able to cover, but who knows. Everyone else is either too small or too weak to play on the line of scrimmage, and Greenway is the only one of those three with exceptional cover skills.

At ILB, Jackson and Ryans are far and away the best at shedding blocks and making plays, while both are good in zone coverage. Greenway, is a little bit worse at sifting through trash. Carpenter doesn't play as well in space as the top 3, and Lawson has shown no aptitude for playing the middle of the field, nor do I think he will ever be able to do more than chase and tackle from an ILB position.

Good stuff, man. Thanks.

 

[MiStar]

anytime, if you want my opninion on other "big name" linbackers, just let me know.

 

[dallasfan]

Rankings for 3-4 OLB:

1. Carpenter


::Big Gap::


2. Lawson

Are you basing this on our specific need for an OLB opposite of Ware or just a 3-4 OLB in general? If you're basing it on a 3-4 OLB in general, then you must also believe that there is a big gap between Carpenter and D.Ware as a prospect last year. Because Ware had zero experience as a LB and Lawson actually played LB for 2 years at NC state. Not to mention Lawson's workout #s are slightly better than Ware's and Lawson last 2 years are just as productive on the field as Ware's, not to mention Lawson played in the ACC.

If you are basing this on the type of LB we need opposite of Ware, then I also disagree. Carpenter is a better run defender now, but with Lawson's size (6'5 1/2) he could easily end up around 255, while I believe Carpenter is about as big as he'll get. Lawson also is a much better pass rusher. Carpenter had a good year last year getting like 8 sacks, but he only had 2 the year before. When he gets to the NFL I think he'll be a 4-6 sack guy, while Lawson will be a 9+ guy. The only place Carpenter has an advantage is pass coverege, and this isn't as important for a 3-4 olb, than a 4-3 olb. In passing situations, Lawson and Ware will both be DEs, and James/Ayodele/Burnett would be the LBers.

 

[ghst187]

Carpenter is flat out the best LB of that list and second only to AJ Hawk IMO.
Carpenter will probably excel from day 1 in the NFL. He's big, he's pretty fast, he's smart, and he's a leader. He could develop into a heart and soul of a unit. He's a safe pick that will make an impact. He's ideal at the ILB position IMO but is capable of playing ILB effectively too. Would love to grab him but I think the Ayodele signing may keep us from targeting Carpenter.

Lawson, flat out FREAK of an athlete. Makes Ware look slow and cumbersome, but he's also lighter. Played mostly DE in college but played some LB too so moving him full-time to OLB won't be an overwhelming transition. He played ST's, blocked a punt, ran track, jumped so high that the stick didn't measure high enough. He has the most upside to be a bigtime impacting playmaker and its a fairly safe pick but not as safe as Carpenter. Lawson could be bigtime but will probably take some time to learn the nuances of the OLB position like Ware. He'll also probably need to put on a few pounds.

Greenway is flat out overrated. He's a good player that should find his place in the NFL but he's not a first round talent IMO.
Jackson is a great player but definitely a second round talent, not on the same level as Carpenter or Lawson. Good player, definitely limited to playing the OLB position in a 3-4.

 

[marchetta]

1. Chad Greenway...
Good size/speed ratio, but the guy doesn't like contact. He's a drag down tackler, and he runs around blocks instead of contacting the OLman. He's going to drop like a rock during the draft, so he'll be there at the bottom of rd#1, but I wouldn't touch him.

2. Bobby Carpenter...
Great size, and great athlete. Really smart, but occasionally plays down to the level of his opposition. He doesn't dominate the way a person of his skill level should on a consistent basis. But still a great LB prospect. He's not the pass rusher that Lawson or Wembley(sp?) are, but he's a good stout SOLB.

3. Manny Lawson...
I've seen him mocked anywhere from the #12 pick of rd1 to the middle of rd2. He's a guy that going through the D.Ware syndrome. You know, a guy that's not on anyone's radar until the draft approaches. All his agility drills and comparisons that I've heard are similar to D.Wares. When Ware came out everyone was comparing him to Jason Taylor, and they're comparing Lawson to Ware as well. I've compared Ware's analysis to that of Lawson's, and the analyst used the same descriptions (adjectives) when describing both players. It was as if they just changed the name of their analysis from Ware to Lawson. So, while I haven't seen him play, or heard of him during the season, he seems to be a Ware/Taylor clone, but don't expect him to get up to 260lbs like Ware is this year. He'll top off at 250lb in a year though.

4. Demeco Ryans...
He may be too small to even be considered by us, and I don't know much about him, so no comment.

5. DQwell Jackson...
This guy is intriguing. He's considered by many analyst to be the 2nd best LB in the draft (2nd only to Hawk). He's often called a smaller version of Hawk. He plays in the inside and is a sideline-to-sideline player that has the same ability as Hawk, it's just in a smaller package. After hearing that BP is really high on Hawk, I started looking into this guy as an option. However, there's 2 problems. 1) He's a bit undersized, so I'm not sure BP would choose him despite of how good he is, 2) He won't last until the 18th pick. Everyone knows about this kid, and the cat is out of the bag, so he's going to jump up the board on any team that runs a 4-3.

 

[marchetta]

Chad Greenway OLB Iowa ​

Strengths
Chad has excellent athleticism for his position. He does a good job when defending against the pass and shows good enough speed to cover RB’s coming out of the backfield. Chad is a smart player and knows his responsibilities and plays them well.

Needs to Improve
Watch my lips…Chad is a lousy tackler! He is a “drag down from behind” tackler that does not like straight on contact. He doesn’t wrap up and he drops his head.

Bottom Line
I don’t care how good a linebacker is at all his other responsibilities if he doesn’t like contact and won’t tackle. If he doesn’t do these two things well, then I don’t want him on my team. I am sick and tired of hearing about LB’s that are athletic, have excellent speed and how impactful they are and when I go to watch them and the most fundamental skill that is needed to play their position (like tackling) is lacking. How does this happen? Especially with a team that prides itself on their tackling! Tackling is mental. You have to want to do it. You have to like the contact. If you teach a kid over and over how to tackle and he still refuses to do it, that should send a signal that he doesn’t like contact! Now I ask you, why would you draft a LB that doesn’t want, or like, contact? Why…because he’s a great athlete? Chad will be drafted in the first day no doubt and if you use him as a situational LB, he could make some big impact plays for you; however, if you’re looking for an every down LB, then you would be making a mistake drafting Chad unless he discovers the light and all of a sudden decides he likes contact. I have a rule: If you are a poor tackler in college, then you’ll be a poor tackler in the pros. Head up, wrap up, squeeze and drive -- it’s that simple.

- Drew Boylhart (thehuddlereport.com)

 

[marchetta]

Bobby Carpenter LB Ohio St ​

Strengths
The size-speed ratio on this kid is very high. He is a good tackler and has excellent coverage skills. He is strong at the point of attack and can shed his blocker very easily. Bobby is a smart player and plays within the context of the game plan. He is a team player and can dominate a game when he wants to.

Needs to Improve
It looks to me that Bobby has a tendency to play to his competition. He doesn’t dominate in games against lesser talent and shines against the more talented teams. This is a problem for players that are smart and find it difficult to get inspired against less talented teams.

Bottom Line
Bobby is an excellent strong side LB and for a long time, I had a hard time figuring out what bothered me about his play. At first, I thought that perhaps he wasn’t the sharpest tool in the shed but, then I realized that it was just the opposite. He might be too smart for his own good. This kid knows his position and knows it well; however, I couldn’t figure out why he shows up for a game like Michigan St and then disappears against other teams. I thought for the longest time that it might be an injury that he was hiding or he wasn’t sure of his assignments. For a kid with as much talent as he has, he should be a lot more impactful on a consistent basis. Watching him closely from tape to tape, I realized that when he plays well and impacts, he plays with a lot of emotion. When he plays an efficient game, he plays with less emotion. Now I know some of you are going to criticize me and say I don’t know what I’m talking about, but this kid is way too athletic and smart to just be out there doing nothing more than his job. He should be ripping the place apart. Bobby recently had an ankle injury, but to be honest, I don’t think that it will make a difference in where he’s taken in the draft. He will be a high pick and I do like this kid’s game, but I hope the team that drafts him learns how to push his buttons for a 16 game schedule because if they can, he should be a dominating LB. When this kid wants to dominate a game, there is no other LB in this draft that is better. He is equal in talent and bigger in size than his counterpart A J Hawk, but his heart is not as big and his game is not as consistent.

Bobby reminds me of Cornelius Bennett. A very efficient LB, but not as dominating as everyone thought he would be. Cornelius was picked in 1987 in the 1st round -- the 2nd pick of the entire draft. Cornelius was efficient, but not dominating. If Bobby is picked sometime after the 20th pick in this draft, then I think that he will be considered good bang for the buck. If teams are going to draft him thinking they are going to build a defense around him, then they may be making a big mistake. Maybe a move to MLB in a 4-3 would unleash this kid’s consistency. Maybe it’s because he plays with Hawk and Schiegel. Personally, I think these are just excuses. I like his game, but not until later in the draft -- sometime after the 20th pick would be just about right. If he drops to the second round, he will be a steal. Remember this is a business and if Bobby has athletic talent equal to the best LB in this draft, but doesn’t impact like the best LB in this draft, then you aren’t being smart if you pick him with the thought that he’s going to impact. That’s just bad business.

- Drew Boylhart (thehuddlereport.com)

 

[marchetta]

Manny Lawson DE North Carolina St ​

Strengths
Manny is an excellent football player and athlete. He was moved from OLB to the DE position and I think it was a very good move for him. Despite his lack of bulk, he is strong at the point of attack and has a quick burst off the line to rush the passer. Right now, he really doesn’t have that many pass rushing moves so there is plenty of upside in his game. He could play as a DE in a 4-3 or an OLB in a 3-4. Manny is fast and strong and very smart. He has first round talent and he is one of my personal favorites in this draft.

Needs to Improve
He needs to bulk up, but not for strength. He needs to bulk up to help him take the pounding of a 16-game season.

Bottom Line
This kid will start to move up in this draft as soon as he completes his workouts. I don’t think the scouts realize how athletic Manny is because everyone is always watching the junior at the other end of the D-line. Manny just might be the better player in the long run. Manny reminds me a lot of Jason Taylor (DE-Miami Dolphins). He has the same kind of build and plays the game with the same mental toughness and leadership skills as Jason. I’m not sure how much bulk Manny can put on his frame, but I am sure that even if he can’t bulk up, it won’t hold him back from being a future Pro Bowl player for the team that drafts him. Manny is much better than you would think against the run and he is a more of a complete DE than most people give him credit for. He's only played DE for two years and is just now learning what he can accomplish at that position. He will grow into an intimidating player in a few years and a player for which teams are going to have to game plan. He has not received the credit he deserves, but I have a feeling that by draft time, he will. I call him Manny (Robert) Lawson because he must feel like the brother on Everybody Loves Raymond. Everybody comes to check out Mario and forgets all about Manny.

- Drew Boylhart (thehuddlereport.com)