Little clarification on the Vince Young wonderlic issue

[dbair1967]

actually they didnt lie...was listening to ESPN radio today and Colin Cowherd, he said they have confirmed an "embrassingly low score of 6" and that Young took it a 2nd time and made the 16

he then quoted numbers as fact as saying 95% of successful NFL starting QB's scored at least a 26...I didnt hear where he got that from but he said it several times

honestly I dont care what he made, the other issues with him were enough for me to know I didnt want him...incredibly bad passing mechanics, questionable at best arm strength, no experience whatsoever in a drop back offense, he ran a shotgun/option offense in college with no advanced pass patterns or reads, questionable accuracy

when you factor in the investment for the guy to get him, he isnt worth it...major, major risk

David

 

[JonJon]

I wouldn't take this data too seriously. There's no information backing up how they got it, what the sample size was or what verifcation methods were used to determine occupation.

Anyone else take the test on ESPN.com? I got 14/15, skipped the size of font one because it's much too early in the morning for me to do math.

I took it and got 12/15 also skipping the size font...The calculations would take too long, and using my SAT method, I returned to that one after all other questions were answered. I still had a whole minute to work on it, so I guess I could make 50 questions in 12 minutes. I am assuming that guys like Vince Young aren't stupid, they just ran out of time and ended up getting a bunch of questions wrong.

Edit:
I also remember my 40 time from about two years ago, which was a 4.55. I just ran out in the garage and did the benchpress, and that is 235 ( that's all the weights that I have, so I assume I could do more).

:

 

[TheHustler]

but did you do it in 3 minutes 40 seconds? that would be the correct timing (the regular version is 50 questions in 12 minutes)

Took me just under 3 minutes.

It's not really fair though, I just took the LSATs last June.

 

[playit12]

I wouldn't take this data too seriously. There's no information backing up how they got it, what the sample size was or what verifcation methods were used to determine occupation.

Anyone else take the test on ESPN.com? I got 14/15, skipped the size of font one because it's much too early in the morning for me to do math.

The NFL doesn't provide wonderlic scores to the public, but they do provide them to each of the teams and scouts every year. Between the combine and junior testing I would guess that nearly all players in the league have been tested at some point. The sheets passed to scouts and teams are routinely copied and given to reporters who then paste some of the interesting information in their articles. The public unfortunately only gets the interesting tidbits. However for any of these reporters it would be trivial to find out the stats listed above. Just going back 8 years or so would account for the vast majority of current players. Then matching up scores to positions would give you the averages posted. I have no reason to doubt the scores, given that all the information needed to calculate the averages would be available to a scout or reporter. I'd actually expect those numbers to be someting that a scouting department would work up.

 

[poke]

very intersting research on average scores........

i sure would like to see the Wonderlic scores for message board posters !!

(well everybodys but mine..that i would prefer to keep a secret )

 

[TheHustler]

The NFL doesn't provide wonderlic scores to the public, but they do provide them to each of the teams and scouts every year. Between the combine and junior testing I would guess that nearly all players in the league have been tested at some point. The sheets passed to scouts and teams are routinely copied and given to reporters who then paste some of the interesting information in their articles. The public unfortunately only gets the interesting tidbits. However for any of these reporters it would be trivial to find out the stats listed above. Just going back 8 years or so would account for the vast majority of current players. Then matching up scores to positions would give you the averages posted. I have no reason to doubt the scores, given that all the information needed to calculate the averages would be available to a scout or reporter. I'd actually expect those numbers to be someting that a scouting department would work up.

I don't doubt the scores for the players positions.

I question the scores for other occupations.

 

[playit12]

I don't doubt the scores for the players positions.

I question the scores for other occupations.

Oh I missunderstood. I think that is taken from the Wonderlic's doccumentation. It list suggested minimum scores for each occupation. I did some research on the test last year and came up with very similar numbers. The ones that stuck our where 31 for a programmer and 16 for a garbage man. Though I could certainly be off by one or two points.

Wonderlic does take the test very seriously. My guess would be that they administered the test en masse and then looked for coorelations in occupational success and test scores. For instance decide what miniumum scores relates to a 75% occupational success rate (as judged by management reviews or surveys). Spot checking some 200 or so results would give you a pretty accurate result.

 

[playit12]

very intersting research on average scores........

i sure would like to see the Wonderlic scores for message board posters !!

(well everybodys but mine..that i would prefer to keep a secret )

The Wonderlic is by far the easist standardized test out there (for the most intelligent test takers). I certainly would not compare it to the SAT for instance. The major problem with the wonderlic is that it doesn't scale well at the highest levels. Test like the SAT and LSAT are scaled logorithmitically at the high and low ends. This allows for a more sizeable distinction at the upper numerical scores. For instance on the most recent LSAT there were about 100 questions. You scored a 168 if you missed 12 questions. That puts you in the top 3.5% of the nation. If you missed, for instance, 3 less questions you scored a 171 and would be in the top 1.1% of the nation. Comparing that to a middle of the range score, getting 50 questions right gives you a 145 while getting 53 questions right only improves your score one point to 146.

This is important on all test where the question difficulty is designed to reach a broad audience. The most successful students might only miss one or two questions on the 50 question test, and it becomes difficult to measure differences in applicants. The reason I say all of this is because the Wonderlic is not overall a good measure of above average intelligence people. Selecting from the group that post here would probably yeild very high scores accordingly. I took two different sample Wonderlics and found the questions to be very easy. I didn't miss any of them and finished well under the alloted time. Perhaps had they added some spelling questions... ;-)

 

[DLCassidy]

I don't have any comment on the "Wonderlic" per se, it's a test the NFL uses so I assume they put some credence in it but there's no such thing as a perfect test. Having said that, I do know QB in today's NFL is not a good place for a dumb guy. If you said you had a RB or a DL that scored single digits my reaction would be "so what". What they do is more instinctive and intuitive than analytical. But the QB's job is different. Just learning the playbook and all the options that go along with every play is a big job.

I remember watching a segment on NFL Network showing John Gruden working with Chris Simms and the length of the playcalls was a joke. When you add in the need to audible, blitz pickups, yada yada yada, you need a guy with some gray matter to succeed IMO. Is VY dumb? No idea. But a low score on the test would be a red flag for me if I was about to invest millions in the guy as a QB. I'd certainly want to check out the matter thouroughly.

 

[conner01]

After Careful Study. It Appears After His Second Try That Vince Could Be One Heck Of A Security Guard. Good Speed To Run Down Them Shoplifters

 

[devotedfan]

After Careful Study. It Appears After His Second Try That Vince Could Be One Heck Of A Security Guard. Good Speed To Run Down Them Shoplifters

Ya and if they got away the first time, they would have a do-over and 32 percent of the time, Vinny would catch the correct guy.

 

[BlueWave]

who cares about wonderlic scores? that green bay fs they took in the 3rd this year, scored less than a 10, and he wound up pretty good his rookie year

It matters. It can give an idea how fast a person can process and return information. That, tends to be important at the NFL QB position if I'm not mistaken. Maybe not a DB or a DT, but certainly a QB at the NFL level.

 

[TEK2000]

After Careful Study. It Appears After His Second Try That Vince Could Be One Heck Of A Security Guard. Good Speed To Run Down Them Shoplifters

If I typed with that kind of grammar, I wouldn't be making jokes about someone else's intelligence.

 

[neosapien23]

Does anyone else find it a bit odd that Vince Young was allowed to take the test again?

 

[TEK2000]

Does anyone else find it a bit odd that Vince Young was allowed to take the test again?

No, not when many of them take it 2 or 3 times prior to the draft.

 

[playit12]

No, not when many of them take it 2 or 3 times prior to the draft.

You can lift as many times as you want before or after the Combine. Basically as often as scouts want to count your lifts... but only once at the Combine. Same for everything else... jumps, sprints, cone drills... everything. I think it's very suspicious that he was allowed to take the test again, and it sets a very bad precident. I also think it reflects poorly on whomever administered the Wonderlic exam.

 

[TEK2000]

You can lift as many times as you want before or after the Combine. Basically as often as scouts want to count your lifts... but only once at the Combine. Same for everything else... jumps, sprints, cone drills... everything. I think it's very suspicious that he was allowed to take the test again, and it sets a very bad precident. I also think it reflects poorly on whomever administered the Wonderlic exam.

Bottom line.. it should reflect poorly on the test GIVERS not the test TAKERS if there is controversy over a scoring error.

If you took that test and scored incredibly low (a 6 perhaps) and there was some questions about errors in the scoring of your test, would you stil think it was wrong to allow a retest?
My guess is.. you'd feel cheated if you DIDN'T get an opportunity to clarify your test results by either taking it again or having a full review of your original test.

 

[CactusCowboy]

So Young should securing a warehouse????

 

[BlueWave]

Bottom line.. it should reflect poorly on the test GIVERS not the test TAKERS if there is controversy over a scoring error.

If you took that test and scored incredibly low (a 6 perhaps) and there was some questions about errors in the scoring of your test, would you stil think it was wrong to allow a retest?
My guess is.. you'd feel cheated if you DIDN'T get an opportunity to clarify your test results by either taking it again or having a full review of your original test.

Why not just regrade the original test? How hard is that?

Something stinks here.