Look at our roster without the fan glasses

[Vanilla2]

Anybody else peep that fresh Tommy Hilfiger/cowboy gear! I’m ordering 2 of everything. 1 to rock and 1 to stock baby. Keep up the good work Jerry!

 

[gongjr]

If we sure up the core of our defense(DT, LB, S), we have enough talent to compete in the NFC. I get your concerns and labeling things as weaknesses, but in reality its about figuring out ways to consistently play to your strength while protecting the rest. This offense, with Dak and 77s health or retirement, should be able to manage that.

 

[willia451]

Obviously, this is subjective on my part. Super Bowl !!!

FTFY.

 

[Bobhaze]

Agenda much? i.e. Sounds more like I am not interested in any data that does not fit my agenda.

Agenda? Lol. It’s laziness. It takes a lot of time to put that stuff together. I would welcome your version to this thread.

 

[Stash]

Before labelling Zeke a weakness you should look as his total productivity per game over the last several years. The line has not been even close to what it once was and our play calling became predictable and stale. Yet he still produced. This isnt a conversation about who is the best back in the league. Its a conversation about if the man is considered a weakness.

Before Daltons first game what did the Cards defense say they need to do to win? They said they needed to make Dalton beat us. That only eliminates Zeke as a weakness.

And what in fact did Zeke DO?

He fumbled twice, on back to back possessions, and gave the Cards 14 points and control of the game. And effectively took himself and the running game out of it.

'That only reinforces Zeke as a weakness.'

 

[Bobhaze]

The problem is how the FO looks at them and if you want to change a W to a S for them, put a Star on that player's helmet. They actually believe every player wants to be a Cowboy and will play better once he is.

The issue with these contracts for Elliott, Lawrence, J. Smith and even Cooper goes back to one of the dumbest things I've ever heard Booger say and there are many to choose from but I do think he believes it because it's a basic tenet of business.

Right after Romo got his last contract, Booger was asked about the level of it and his response was "he's getting paid better, he'll play better". I think he believes that is the incentive. He pays them more and expects more based solely on that. He expects them to raise their level of play up to meet the salary. If he wants them to be an A player, he needs to pay them an A salary.

But that's a minor problem compared to the real one, ego. One of the real payoffs for his ego is when a risk pays off like a 2nd and 3rd for Lawrence, Elliot at 4 going against the grain or Smith in the 2nd. How else can anyone explain that Smith contract after watching him and knowing he will never even be at his college level again?

Booger tries to prove he was right by doubling down. He makes the mistake that 30 other owners do not make, he lets hi ego get involved with his business and as long as that continues, this franchise's woes continue.

You nailed one of Jerry’s fundamental flaws as a GM that consistently kills this team. He foolishly believes- even brags that he can take chances no other GM can. But in reality, Jerry takes stupid risks on players no other good GM would.

And in addition, he’s driven by the ghost of Jimmy Jump Up. I swear Jimmy Johnson owns acres of real estate in Jerry’s head. Especially after Jimmy being named to the HOF. He will never be to accept that Jimmy was primarily responsible for those 3 SBs in the 90s, This has become Jerry’s white whale. He is forever chasing something he will never catch- football credibility. He’s made more money than he could ever spend but he’s still driven to get that almighty credit. He will take it to his grave.

 

[Pantone282C]

If anyone thinks this is a talented enough roster to be better than 2-5, let us take the fan glasses off and take a hard look at each position on both offense and defense.

For the purposes of this evaluation let’s look at each position on the filed and use this terminology to evaluate it: Position of Strength (S), or Position of Weakness (W). I’ve always believed whatever player is not a strength is automatically a weakness. You are either Strong or Weak, no in-between.

OFFENSE
LT- Tyron Smith- (W) What was once a top 3 LT in the league is probably headed for retirement.
LG- Connor Williams (W) In his third season, haven’t seen enough to say it’s a strength
C- Tyler Biadaz (W) I would actually label TB as an unknown. He may develop, but he’s no T-Fred.
RG- Zack Martin (S) Still an All Pro
RT- La’el Collins (S) Injured now but if he’s back in form next year, he’s legit.
TE- Blake Jarwin/Dalton Schultz- (S) This may be generous but Dalton’s development and the return of Jarwin may make this a strength.
WR- Amari Cooper, Michael Gallup, Cedee Lamb- (S) Frankly, wasted riches
RB- Zeke Elliott- (W) Can’t believe I just typed W but Zeke’s bad contract coupled with his lost burst makes him above average but based on his cap space, he’s a weakness.
QB- Dak Prescott (S)- I know there are fans here who don’t like Dak, but assuming his leg is good next year, he’s proven to be a top 5-8 QB.
Offense Total- 5 positions of strength, 6 positions of weakness. The LT position is one of the hardest to find quality, so that may become a draft priority.

DEFENSE
LDE- DeMarcus Lawrence (W) He’s playing hurt and not playing up to his contract, but unlike Jaylon, he still plays hard.
DT- Neville Gallimore- (W) too early to tell if he’s got anything but we’re still thin here
DT- Antuan Woods- (W) perhaps a decent backup, but not starter quality
RDE- Ty Crawford, Aldon Smith, Randy Gregory (W) Smith has shown flashes but he’s too old, RG is completely unreliable and Crawford should have been cut already.
MLB- LVE (W) Talented but a China doll. The clock is ticking for his retirement announcement.
WLB- Jaylon Smith (W)- Out position a lot and can’t cover anyone. Bad contract now,
S- X. Woods, D. Thompson, etc. (W) Pathetic frankly.
CBs- C. Awuzie, A. Brown, J Lewis, T. Diggs- (W) Diggs is probably decent, Brown has been a disappointment, Awuzie has been injured and inconsistent as is Lewis. Depleted.
Defense Total- All 11 positions are Weak. Obviously lots of draft capital will be needed. 2021 would be a great year to stockpile extra picks.

Obviously, this is subjective on my part, and I realize some young guys like Biadaz, Diggs and Gallimore may develop into decent starters, But right now, we don’t know that.

Seems pretty obvious that even at full strength- with no injuries- this team’s weaknesses are glaring. This won’t be fixed easily, and probably not immediately. This is not a very talented team overall.

One other concern- I’m certain Mike McCarthy wasn’t hired for a rebuild. Has Jerry accepted the truth of how big the holes are on this roster? If so, he may need to find a guy who can build from scratch.

I took off my fan glasses, and now I need a seeing eye dog.
Yeah, Bob, good eval, sad to say.
How the mighty have fallen.

 

[superonyx]

And what in fact did Zeke DO?

He fumbled twice, on back to back possessions, and gave the Cards 14 points and control of the game. And effectively took himself and the running game out of it.

'That only reinforces Zeke as a weakness.'

Well Tom Brady threw a few interceptions at the start of the season and cost the Bucs a game, I guess he is a weakness also.
Based on your thought process everyone is a weakness. Gotch

 

[Stash]

Well Tom Brady threw a few interceptions at the start of the season and cost the Bucs a game, I guess he is a weakness also.
Based on your thought process everyone is a weakness. Gotch

Yeah, go with that strawman rather than admitting the truth.

No, got you...

 

[ESisback]

We just need to revamp the defense and bring in a new DC.

Assuming the core of our OL and Dak returns healthy we have a top 5 offense. If they can stop turning the ball over. Which they hadn’t done in recent history.

Focus the draft and FA on defense , primarily DT , LB and S, and perhaps a LT.

An average to slightly below average defense with our healthy offense could win back the division. That’s not a total rebuild.

Nice to agree with you!

 

[Bobhaze]

Before labelling Zeke a weakness you should look as his total productivity per game over the last several years. The line has not been even close to what it once was and our play calling became predictable and stale. Yet he still produced. This isnt a conversation about who is the best back in the league. Its a conversation about if the man is considered a weakness.

Before Daltons first game what did the Cards defense say they need to do to win? They said they needed to make Dalton beat us. That only eliminates Zeke as a weakness.

Super, regarding what Zeke has given us the last few years, I tend to rate hyped and expensive players based on how they helped the team achieve something. Zeke has had some really good years on paper, but that has not translated to much as far as playoff success. Using that as a metric, the 4th player in the 2016 draft has helped us making the playoffs twice, winning one wc game.

 

[Stash]

Super, regarding what Zeke has given us the last few years, I tend to rate hyped and expensive players based on how they helped the team achieve something. Zeke has had some really good years on paper, but that has not translated to much as far as playoff success. Using that as a metric, the 4th player in the 2016 draft has helped us making the playoffs twice, winning one wc game.

On a career trajectory that looks like this:



While being far and away the league's priciest running back:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/running-back/

Not a strength!

 

[Corso]

I want to be able to root for Zeke again.

 

[superonyx]

Yeah, go with that strawman rather than admitting the truth.

No, got you...

Strawman or analogy which makes your comment look as awful as it was?

 

[superonyx]

Super, regarding what Zeke has given us the last few years, I tend to rate hyped and expensive players based on how they helped the team achieve something. Zeke has had some really good years on paper, but that has not translated to much as far as playoff success. Using that as a metric, the 4th player in the 2016 draft has helped us making the playoffs twice, winning one wc game.

I understand that but considering Zeke as a weakness just doesn't hold up. You may not be happy with his production this year. The role of the OL in this and also the fact that our defense had us in deep holes in every game right away obviously contributes to stats. The same reason people were saying daks passing yards were inflated is the same reason or contributing factor to Zeke's rushing yards.
No doubt Zeke has not had a Zeke level of season. He wouldnt even argue that he has. But to consider a player that the other teams you are playing against need to come out and publicly state they are game planning to make sure he doesn't beat them just cannot be considered a roster weakness. Also regardless of where he was drafted or his salary neither of these factor into him being a weakness or strength.

Cowboys fans are in kill everyone mode right now. Especially some of the drama queens around here (not you). The reality is our roster was ranked the 5th or 6th most talented roster coming into this season and that doesnt just change to the worst because of terrible defensive play and major injuries to your OL and QB. These guys will be back..... our defense with Nolan... well thats a different story.

 

[Pantone282C]

If anyone thinks this is a talented enough roster to be better than 2-5, let us take the fan glasses off and take a hard look at each position on both offense and defense.

For the purposes of this evaluation let’s look at each position on the filed and use this terminology to evaluate it: Position of Strength (S), or Position of Weakness (W). I’ve always believed whatever player is not a strength is automatically a weakness. You are either Strong or Weak, no in-between.

OFFENSE
LT- Tyron Smith- (W) What was once a top 3 LT in the league is probably headed for retirement.
LG- Connor Williams (W) In his third season, haven’t seen enough to say it’s a strength
C- Tyler Biadaz (W) I would actually label TB as an unknown. He may develop, but he’s no T-Fred.
RG- Zack Martin (S) Still an All Pro
RT- La’el Collins (S) Injured now but if he’s back in form next year, he’s legit.
TE- Blake Jarwin/Dalton Schultz- (S) This may be generous but Dalton’s development and the return of Jarwin may make this a strength.
WR- Amari Cooper, Michael Gallup, Cedee Lamb- (S) Frankly, wasted riches
RB- Zeke Elliott- (W) Can’t believe I just typed W but Zeke’s bad contract coupled with his lost burst makes him above average but based on his cap space, he’s a weakness.
QB- Dak Prescott (S)- I know there are fans here who don’t like Dak, but assuming his leg is good next year, he’s proven to be a top 5-8 QB.
Offense Total- 5 positions of strength, 6 positions of weakness. The LT position is one of the hardest to find quality, so that may become a draft priority.

DEFENSE
LDE- DeMarcus Lawrence (W) He’s playing hurt and not playing up to his contract, but unlike Jaylon, he still plays hard.
DT- Neville Gallimore- (W) too early to tell if he’s got anything but we’re still thin here
DT- Antuan Woods- (W) perhaps a decent backup, but not starter quality
RDE- Ty Crawford, Aldon Smith, Randy Gregory (W) Smith has shown flashes but he’s too old, RG is completely unreliable and Crawford should have been cut already.
MLB- LVE (W) Talented but a China doll. The clock is ticking for his retirement announcement.
WLB- Jaylon Smith (W)- Out position a lot and can’t cover anyone. Bad contract now,
S- X. Woods, D. Thompson, etc. (W) Pathetic frankly.
CBs- C. Awuzie, A. Brown, J Lewis, T. Diggs- (W) Diggs is probably decent, Brown has been a disappointment, Awuzie has been injured and inconsistent as is Lewis. Depleted.
Defense Total- All 11 positions are Weak. Obviously lots of draft capital will be needed. 2021 would be a great year to stockpile extra picks.

Obviously, this is subjective on my part, and I realize some young guys like Biadaz, Diggs and Gallimore may develop into decent starters, But right now, we don’t know that.

Seems pretty obvious that even at full strength- with no injuries- this team’s weaknesses are glaring. This won’t be fixed easily, and probably not immediately. This is not a very talented team overall.

One other concern- I’m certain Mike McCarthy wasn’t hired for a rebuild. Has Jerry accepted the truth of how big the holes are on this roster? If so, he may need to find a guy who can build from scratch.

I tried looking at them with glasses - still don't feel good.

 

[Bobhaze]

I understand that but considering Zeke as a weakness just doesn't hold up. You may not be happy with his production this year. The role of the OL in this and also the fact that our defense had us in deep holes in every game right away obviously contributes to stats. The same reason people were saying daks passing yards were inflated is the same reason or contributing factor to Zeke's rushing yards.
No doubt Zeke has not had a Zeke level of season. He wouldnt even argue that he has. But to consider a player that the other teams you are playing against need to come out and publicly state they are game planning to make sure he doesn't beat them just cannot be considered a roster weakness. Also regardless of where he was drafted or his salary neither of these factor into him being a weakness or strength.

Cowboys fans are in kill everyone mode right now. Especially some of the drama queens around here (not you). The reality is our roster was ranked the 5th or 6th most talented roster coming into this season and that doesnt just change to the worst because of terrible defensive play and major injuries to your OL and QB. These guys will be back..... our defense with Nolan... well thats a different story.

Well said brother. But I don’t think I have made my point very well. What I’m saying is this: Yes Zeke has been an excellent RB. Stats prove it. But the key to us taking the next step to playoff relevance does not center on Zeke. I’m not saying he isn’t good. But I am saying I would never in today’s NFL build an offense around a RB. I wouldn’t have paid him- I would have moved on. We wouldn’t be any worse off- maybe even better in the long run because we wouldn’t have his albatross contract now.

In the last decade or more, I can’t think of a team winning a SB that has centered their offense around a bell cow RB who soaked up big cap space. There have been plenty of teams who had good RBs but they were almost always still on their rookie deals. We are getting less than 70 yards a game from Zeke and his yds per game has dropped some each year. The time to utilize Zeke was on his rookie deal, and we wasted that opportunity.

 

[superonyx]

Well said brother. But I don’t think I have made my point very well. What I’m saying is this: Yes Zeke has been an excellent RB. Stats prove it. But the key to us taking the next step to playoff relevance does not center on Zeke. I’m not saying he isn’t good. But I am saying I would never in today’s NFL build an offense around a RB. I wouldn’t have paid him- I would have moved on. We wouldn’t be any worse off- maybe even better in the long run because we wouldn’t have his albatross contract now.

In the last decade or more, I can’t think of a team winning a SB that has centered their offense around a bell cow RB who soaked up big cap space. There have been plenty of teams who had good RBs but they were almost always still on their rookie deals. We are getting less than 70 yards a game from Zeke and his yds per game has dropped some each year. The time to utilize Zeke was on his rookie deal, and we wasted that opportunity.

I think people tend to put Zekes contract higher than it actually is. The majority of the money he will never see. It’s not really a $90m deal. Remember if Zeke wasn’t here you would be paying someone else so it’s not Zeke or free RB. A 2nd or 3rd tier back like Kenyon Drake is making $9m this year. David Johnson is making around 13m.
You may be surprised at the contract of some other RBs also.
This idea that Zekes contract is what’s holding us down is not factual.

 

[Bobhaze]

I think people tend to put Zekes contract higher than it actually is. The majority of the money he will never see. It’s not really a $90m deal. Remember if Zeke wasn’t here you would be paying someone else so it’s not Zeke or free RB. A 2nd or 3rd tier back like Kenyon Drake is making $9m this year. David Johnson is making around 13m.
You may be surprised at the contract of some other RBs also.
This idea that Zekes contract is what’s holding us down is not factual.

Good points. And I get that about his money. I’m not saying the contract alone is holding us back.I just think it was foolish for this front office to do the deal to begin with. This organization had a nice 4 season window to do something with Zeke on his rookie deal and it didn’t happen. I’m just saying I think it’s foolish in today’s NFL to sign any RB to a big second contract when you clearly have bigger needs that would have the opportunity to make you much more competitive.

You make some good points my friend. Appreciate the discussion. I’m just gonna have to disagree withcha on this one.

 

[Stash]

Strawman or analogy which makes your comment look as awful as it was?

None. I’m just fine thanks.