LVE - the downside, coverage

[Cowboy Brian]

I'll throw myself into the onslaught, but despite all of the positive media coverage, LVE did have a big flaw in his game on Sunday.

Leighton Vander Esch was targeted 11 times and allowed 10 receptions for 92 yards, 47 yards after the catch, and had his first career interception.

Source: PFF

 

[blindzebra]

PFF as a source is worthless. He was playing mostly zone so how do they base being targeted?

 

[Cowboy Brian]

PFF as a source is worthless. He was playing mostly zone so how do they base being targeted?

Lord knows, but the stat is slightly alarming and something I think we should keep an eye on in coming weeks. He won us the game on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[reddyuta]

I am not sure they were targeting LVe but it seem more that they were determined to to throw it to Ertz even after the INT.

 

[Cowboy Brian]

I am not sure they were targeting LVe but it seem more that they were determined to to throw it to Ertz even after the INT.

That was the point I was waiting to make.

He was up against one of the 3? top TE's in the game right now, so he should get a bit of leeway, but if LVE can improve his coverage game assuming PFF's stat is correct, then he is not only a stud, but a 5+ time all-pro caliber player. This seems to be the only weakness in his game.

 

[Blackspider214]

PFF as a source is worthless. He was playing mostly zone so how do they base being targeted?

PFF is indeed worthless. The grading system is the most arbitrary thing going. None of it has any substance at all. No clear explanation on how they even really get to these grades they give out. It's new age junk that is thrown around a lot these days.

And yes, he absolutely was playing zone. Ertz would find the soft spot and sit down. They were not directly targeting LVE nor was he running with Ertz directly. Unless PFF knew each assignment for every player (they don't), they can't know this and who was supposed to be where. It's always tricky with zone coverage to assign who exactly was targeted. Not saying LVE is perfect in coverage but this stat is very misleading.

 

[blindzebra]

Lord knows, but the stat is slightly alarming and something I think we should keep an eye on in coming weeks. He won us the game on the defensive side of the ball.

The stat is what is questionable. Again, we played zone, he was rarely if ever in man coverage, so PFF has no idea if he was targeted or not. They are just throwing numbers out.

 

[adamknite]

In all fairness, two things...

1. He's a linebacker, not a safety or cb. Sure those numbers look bad, but you have to take his position into account.

2. Again... Lb'er how many of those "targets" are from zone coverage and he literally didn't have much say in the pass being caught or not? I know a lot of times they just look at who was closest and say that guy was targeted when really it was probably just a hole in the zone.

 

[Cowboy Brian]

The stat is what is questionable. Again, we played zone, he was rarely if ever in man coverage, so PFF has no idea if he was targeted or not. They are just throwing numbers out.

As they do, that's how they get their clicks and their $, but no player is perfect, no rookie is perfect, and so far, this may be the only real weakness in his game.

 

[Blackspider214]

I am not sure they were targeting LVe but it seem more that they were determined to to throw it to Ertz even after the INT.

Ertz is Wentz's version of Witten. He's a safety valve. All be it a much more athletic version who can stretch the field. Like Witten was early in his career with Romo. For better or worse, he is going to target him. Sometimes he locks in on him too much and the offense stalls. Or he stares him down and gets picked. Like LVE did early on. Not sure why Dallas did not tighten up on Ertz and make Wentz use his WRs on the outside.

 

[Blackspider214]

In all fairness, two things...

1. He's a linebacker, not a safety or cb. Sure those numbers look bad, but you have to take his position into account.

2. Again... Lb'er how many of those "targets" are from zone coverage and he literally didn't have much say in the pass being caught or not? I know a lot of times they just look at who was closest and say that guy was targeted when really it was probably just a hole in the zone.

This is why you can't judge a game or player just based on stats on paper. You have to watch the game to get full context. For any sport.

 

[CapnB]

What I noticed, is we seemed to play a WHOLE LOT more Cover2/Cover3 zone than i remember. Might be wrong there. But, I just wonder how much of those numbers were tweaked because he was in the area, therefore, was responsible for that man as if he were playing man to man

 

[buybuydandavis]

I'll throw myself into the onslaught, but despite all of the positive media coverage, LVE did have a big flaw in his game on Sunday.

Leighton Vander Esch was targeted 11 times and allowed 10 receptions for 92 yards, 47 yards after the catch, and had his first career interception.

Source: PFF

Average target distance at around 4 yards over the middle. In lots of situations you let teams have that and hope to stop them before a first down.

As is, this stat doesn't scare me much. It doesn't line up with impressions from the game either. Gotta see the plays before I think there is a problem. Early in the season, they were talking up his coverage skills more than anything else.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Not sure why Dallas did not tighten up on Ertz and make Wentz use his WRs on the outside.

Because our coaches are too lame to tweak our system. Byron specialized in covering TEs last year. He was good at it. Ertz is their main guy. Duh. Take out their main guy.

And if not Byron, someone else. Jaylon has the size, speed and agility. We send him downfield covering WRs, but won't put him on Ertz.

Cowboy coaching. Next man up. Players are interchangeable cogs.

 

[ClintDagger]

I think coverage was his strength in college. One, I think they played a lot of zone and really good TEs like Ertz can kill zones. And two, Ertz is one of the very best TEs and he probably did outplay the rookie here and there. I bet you give LVE a few years and he will be shutting guys like Ertz down. He has the skill set to be a great cover LB.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

PFF is indeed worthless. The grading system is the most arbitrary thing going. None of it has any substance at all. No clear explanation on how they even really get to these grades they give out. It's new age junk that is thrown around a lot these days.

And yes, he absolutely was playing zone. Ertz would find the soft spot and sit down. They were not directly targeting LVE nor was he running with Ertz directly. Unless PFF knew each assignment for every player (they don't), they can't know this and who was supposed to be where. It's always tricky with zone coverage to assign who exactly was targeted. Not saying LVE is perfect in coverage but this stat is very misleading.

Except when it reflects positively in favor of a Cowboy. Then PFF stats get trotted around here like a ring girl with a round card.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

That was the point I was waiting to make.

He was up against one of the 3? top TE's in the game right now, so he should get a bit of leeway, but if LVE can improve his coverage game assuming PFF's stat is correct, then he is not only a stud, but a 5+ time all-pro caliber player. This seems to be the only weakness in his game.

I wonder what his coverage stats are for the season.

I dont think PFF is worthless when it comes to their stats. It is alarming, but that was also a strength of his in college. Lets see if its a trend or a blimp against a strong opponent.

 

[charron]

Love wasn't in single man coverage vs ertz. I give them ertz ran into love zone area. Also it's not like you see love missing tackles either. Maybe ertz or whoever falls forward for a yard or 3 after they caught the ball ala Jason witten but they make it seem like he's missing tackles.

 

[jrumann59]

in the NFL coverage is the last thing to come with LB. In college coverage schemes are not as complicated as NFL schemes.

 

[sbark]

Because our coaches are too lame to tweak our system. Byron specialized in covering TEs last year. He was good at it. Ertz is their main guy. Duh. Take out their main guy.

And if not Byron, someone else. Jaylon has the size, speed and agility. We send him downfield covering WRs, but won't put him on Ertz.

Cowboy coaching. Next man up. Players are interchangeable cogs.

Yup, saw jaylon pretty much remove Commanders top level te last year, but from the slb position.....Wilson at that spot at present has athletism, but hasn't shown the anticipation