Marcel Dareus vs Cam Jordan

[realtick]

I'm far from advocating 3-4 DE at 9.

The best pass rushers at 3-4 DE for the last 10 years or so.

Seymour 4.8 sacks per year.

Aaron Smith 4.4 sacks per year.

I'll take a 3-4 DE high when I see Peppers, Mario, Bruce or Reggie.

Then you're failing to see the hidden numbers i.e. QB pressure.

As one of the members of the Lunch Break put it, "Close is only good in horseshoes and hand grenades....and pressuring the QB"

Pressure makes QB do funny things; whether it's forcing them up in the pocket; forcing a throw; firing a pass too early; taking their eyes off their receivers; et cetera.

Let's be honest, Marcus Spears and Igor Olshansky don't bring pressure. The few sacks they do rack up (a total of 4 in the past 32 games between two players!) are typically from a total collapse of the pocket.

If I can get a 34 end that can play the run, bring pressure and rack up 5 sacks a year, I'll take it.

Besides, it is a position of need. Spears, Bowen and Hatcher are all up, the Cowboys need some talent at the position if for no other reason to fill out a roster.

JMO.

 

[jterrell]

Then you're failing to see the hidden numbers i.e. QB pressure.

As one of the members of the Lunch Break put it, "Close is only good in horseshoes and hand grenades....and pressuring the QB"

Pressure makes QB do funny things; whether it's forcing them up in the pocket; forcing a throw; firing a pass too early; taking their eyes off their receivers; et cetera.

Let's be honest, Marcus Spears and Igor Olshansky don't bring pressure. The few sacks they do rack up (a total of 4 in the past 32 games between two players!) are typically from a total collapse of the pocket.

If I can get a 34 end that can play the run, bring pressure and rack up 5 sacks a year, I'll take it.

Besides, it is a position of need. Spears, Bowen and Hatcher are all up, the Cowboys need some talent at the position if for no other reason to fill out a roster.

JMO.

The only thing I buy in your last dozen posts are the JMO part.

Dallas obviously can re-sign their own players if they desire. In fact they probably are certain to retain a couple of those guys.

I like Cam Jordan and would definitely consider him at 9. But 3-4 DE is definitely not a position of huge focus. Bill Parcells wanted to draft Spears instead of Ware. for once a Jerry Jones overrule saved us. A great 3-4 DE is not going to carry a team. GB and Pitt play in the SB and have very good defenses but the 3-4 DE's on those squads get very little pressure. They occupy blockers and clog lanes for the LBs to run free.

Best case Jordan is another Ratliff. A quick off the ball penetrating DL. Playing him at a 3-4 DE might work in some schemes but the players around him better be able to control 2 gaps.

 

[realtick]

The only thing I buy in your last dozen posts are the JMO part.

Dallas obviously can re-sign their own players if they desire. In fact they probably are certain to retain a couple of those guys.

I like Cam Jordan and would definitely consider him at 9. But 3-4 DE is definitely not a position of huge focus. Bill Parcells wanted to draft Spears instead of Ware. for once a Jerry Jones overrule saved us. A great 3-4 DE is not going to carry a team. GB and Pitt play in the SB and have very good defenses but the 3-4 DE's on those squads get very little pressure. They occupy blockers and clog lanes for the LBs to run free.

Best case Jordan is another Ratliff. A quick off the ball penetrating DL. Playing him at a 3-4 DE might work in some schemes but the players around him better be able to control 2 gaps.

Then count yourself as part of the clueless.

Making statements like "the 3-4 DE's on those squads (GB & Pitt.) get very little pressure," is indicative of that. You're not watching the games, you're sifting through a stat sheet looking for eye-popping sack numbers. It's about pressure; sacks are just a quantitative stat that are sometimes the end result of bringing pressure.

"I like Cam Jordan and would definitely consider him at 9. But 3-4 DE is definitely not a position of huge focus."

Love the fuzzy logic here. So you would definitely consider him #9, but then state it's definitely not a position of huge focus.

I think the Cowboys should take the BPA at a position of need. That being (in no specific order) CB/S, OT, DE.

I don't want to reach to take an OL at #9 if a guy like Jordan or Quinn are still available. Likewise, I don't want to select a 34 DE if all the top tier talent (Fairley, Jordan, etc.) are off the board and a guy like Patrick Peterson is still available.

This is all assuming we don't trade back and choose to stay at #9.

Yes, you've stated the obvious, the Cowboys can resign those named players (Spears, Bowen, Hatcher), but there is a great possibility that at least one, if not two of those said players will be allowed to walk.

Where's the DE depth? Clifton Geathers, Jimmy Sadler-McQueen?

Do you want to bypass a prospect like Cam Jordan because we got Sean Lissemore?

Bottomline, you take the BPA at a position of need.

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

As impressive as Jordan was to me, I think it would be harder for him to do what he was going as a 5 technique. Theres much less room to operate and you dont have the edge to rush. He might be a better player as a LE in a 4-3.

 

[baj1dallas]

Dareus.

 

[CATCH17]

As impressive as Jordan was to me, I think it would be harder for him to do what he was going as a 5 technique. Theres much less room to operate and you dont have the edge to rush. He might be a better player as a LE in a 4-3.

True but the guy will be a 300+ pounder and he is going to go 100% every single play and there is something to be said for that.


On a team full of quitters he would be a guy you know wouldn't stop.

 

[TheCount]

True but the guy will be a 300+ pounder and he is going to go 100% every single play and there is something to be said for that.


On a team full of quitters he would be a guy you know wouldn't stop.

How do we know he's going to be 300+ lbs?

I like the guy, and I like how far ahead he is already as a pass rusher but I can't shake thinking he's a little small for a 3-4 DE.

If I could be convinced he will add some extra weight and maintain all that, that would go a long way but in convincing me. As it stands I think he'd be a steal for a 4-3 team, not so sure about a 3-4 team.

 

[The Realist]

Cam is wreaking havoc like Spears did as a 4-3 DE at LSU.

Nothing like being head up on an OT to put the kybosh to that.

 

[CATCH17]

How do we know he's going to be 300+ lbs?

I like the guy, and I like how far ahead he is already as a pass rusher but I can't shake thinking he's a little small for a 3-4 DE.

If I could be convinced he will add some extra weight and maintain all that, that would go a long way but in convincing me. As it stands I think he'd be a steal for a 4-3 team, not so sure about a 3-4 team.

Just look at him. His frame can carry a lot more weight.

 

[Avery]

Jordan, but I only take him if we can't trade down and Prince/PP are off the board. I think we could find someone for the 3-4 later at a cheaper price.

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

True but the guy will be a 300+ pounder and he is going to go 100% every single play and there is something to be said for that.


On a team full of quitters he would be a guy you know wouldn't stop.

Well like I said hes winning me over. These drills are so intense for these guys w/ it being 1 on 1 so anyone like him or Tyson Alualu who dominates catches my attention. But I didnt want Alualu in R1 last year and I still dont think he would have been as good a pick as Dez, Pounecy, Iupati, Anthony Davis, and even McCourty.

This is similar IMO. His talent looks to be top 10, but if you graded him as a prospect as a 5 technique is it still as high? Sure he crapped on Schilling and everthing but you cant rush the same way on the inside. You have a limited number of moves and have to maintain some semblance of a pass-rush lane.

Would Cameron Jordan have the same impact at end that a Quinn or PP would have on defense?