Mario Butler

[cowboyschmps3]

Do we have our future DB already? What is the word on him?

 

[CoCo]

Do we have our future DB already? What is the word on him?

I liked him in preseason but I think his next step up would probably be just to make the roster. Obviously we need way more help in the secondary than just someone off our practice squad.

 

[cielo07]

I thought at some point he would make game day roster, but he still hasn't been signed to a future contract.

 

[xwalker]

He ran a 4.65 forty at the combine. The odds are against any CB that runs slower than 4.5.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

He ran a 4.65 forty at the combine. The odds are against any CB that runs slower than 4.5.

Maybe so, but during Pre Season, he was always around the ball and always on his WR. I never saw a lack of speed with him. I think he makes the roster and replaces Ball this off season. He is a football player, regardless of what his combine numbers say.

 

[Hoofbite]

He ran a 4.65 forty at the combine. The odds are against any CB that runs slower than 4.5.

Screw the odds.

40 yard dash times are pretty worthless.

Unless a guy is incredibly fast or incredibly slow I don't think they mean anything at all.

You've got to run in the 4.3s to impress and be a hell of a lost slower than 4.6 to really disappoint.

 

[RealCowboyfan]

Mario Butler proably would have been a better option than Newman.

 

[Eskimo]

He'll have to play with a lot of guile to get by with mediocre speed like that.

It'll be interesting to see if he is able to step it up a notch and make the team next year.

He'd have a much better chance if we were going to be a zone heavy team but I think Ryan prefers to man up his corners more.

My own guess is we draft at least one and maybe two CBs this year with one of them in the first two rounds.

 

[Picksix]

Maybe so, but during Pre Season, he was always around the ball and always on his WR. I never saw a lack of speed with him. I think he makes the roster and replaces Ball this off season. He is a football player, regardless of what his combine numbers say.

It's tough to go by what a guy did in preseason games. They're usually going against backups themselves, and teams that aren't really showing anything. It's a good tool, but there's so much more that goes into the evaluation of a player.

Remember a couple of years ago when Cletis Gordon was intercepting everything? Last I knew, the guy wasn't even in the league anymore.

 

[TheRat]

Screw the odds.

40 yard dash times are pretty worthless.

Unless a guy is incredibly fast or incredibly slow I don't think they mean anything at all.

You've got to run in the 4.3s to impress and be a hell of a lost slower than 4.6 to really disappoint.

Actually that is not true at all. 83% of successful NFL CBs run under a 4.5 in the 40 yard dash.
http://www.ourlads.com/pdfs/PhysAttributes_NFLSuccess.pdf

But let me guess: you think the football is all about heart. LOL. There is a reason Rudy never made it to the NFL.

Doesn't mean Butler has no chance, but the odds are stacked against him.

 

[Hoofbite]

Actually that is not true at all. 83% of successful NFL CBs run under a 4.5 in the 40 yard dash.
http://www.ourlads.com/pdfs/PhysAttributes_NFLSuccess.pdf

But let me guess: you think the football is all about heart. LOL. There is a reason Rudy never made it to the NFL.

Doesn't mean Butler has no chance, but the odds are stacked against him.

Best I can tell, they define "successful" as being a starter which is far from any sort of indication of success.

And although I skimmed it, I didn't see how they define a "starter". 1 game? 4 games? All games? Where a player spent most of their time isn't some exact measure unless this guy watched every game of every player, something he'd likely mention had he done it. What if a player is in on 75% of the defensive snaps but doesn't start a single game? What if that player mans the #1 WR (by all means a "starting" position) but is worked into the game for the 1st quarter, at which point he plays the rest of the game?

Terrence Newman started this year, guess he was successful. Mike Jenkins last year, he must have been successful. Alan Ball, starter. Sean Taylor started the season before his death and gave up the most TDs in the NFL.

Their numbers would hold more weight if each sampled draft class had the same amount of time in the league. Being a 1st round CB basically means you start at some point during your rookie season. That in itself means that the 5 DBs who were taken in the first round of 2008 were starters and hadn't even played a down.

Being a 1st round CB in 2007 probably also means that you are starting in 2008. Barring an Alan Ball at FS-like season, what team concludes that a 1st round pick can't play a lick after 1 year?

It's no secret that a combine workout can make or break a player but that doesn't say anything in regards to how well they perform if the make the team. Combine performance only really impacts draft status which itself is a big determining factor if someone starts. Therefore, it's no shocker that faster times are drafted higher which would translate into a higher likelihood of starting from the get-go.

I'd also be interested in seeing the number of CBs who exceeded their peers in 40 yard dashes and are out of the league or are not "successful". If we assume a normal distribution, you'd have half the CBs from the period above and half below.

Of the nearly 120 CBs who were below, they've counted 24 starters who beat the average.

And of course, with other test measures coming up above 70% there's nothing that says that any given test is less likely to be a good predictor of "success" than the next or that any combination of 2 or 3 tests wouldn't be the true predictor.

At best, you could look at the 24 starters out of 120 potential starters for a 20% chance of having a good 40-yard dash time equating to a starting position. And even this is skewed because half the sample (2007 , 2008) includes players who are all but promised a starting job the moment they walk to the podium on draft day.

I'd like to see how the numbers come out if each class is assessed on it's 4th year.

And as I said earlier, I'd like to see how it looks in terms of on-the-field performance.

This article is interesting, I suppose. They've defined "success" in a manner that suggests nothing about how well a player performs, have different entry points into the study yet do not have consistent end points between draft classes, ignore players who test well in their gold standard measure and are not "successful" and all-in-all say nothing about how well their "successful" players have played.

 

[Cowboyz88]

Not that I have a dog in this fight (if Butler makes it great, but I'm not expecting greatness), but the great Everson Walls ran a 4.72.

Sometimes you CAN move beyond the measureables and stats.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

It's tough to go by what a guy did in preseason games. They're usually going against backups themselves, and teams that aren't really showing anything. It's a good tool, but there's so much more that goes into the evaluation of a player.

Remember a couple of years ago when Cletis Gordon was intercepting everything? Last I knew, the guy wasn't even in the league anymore.

I agree for the most part. But I have watched this guy during his college days and now with the Cowboys in some pre season action. He seems to always be around the ball. I think he has very good football instincts which can make up for a lot of sub par speed. Of course he could flop like many others have but I think he will be productive in the league. I didn't say great mind you, I said he would replace Ball on the roster, at the 4th or 5th CB spot.

 

[Mr Cowboy]

Here we go, let's hope our udfa's on our practice squad are the answers to our problems.

How about we quit drafting the Mickens, AOAs, Courtney Brown, Josh Thomas, Jamar Walls of the world and hope they pan out.

 

[RS12]

Here we go, let's hope our udfa's on our practice squad are the answers to our problems.

How about we quit drafting the Mickens, AOAs, Courtney Brown, Josh Thomas, Jamar Walls of the world and hope they pan out.

This. With the way this secondary leaked, seems like if he could play he would have been out there.