Marshall/Williams Trade values

SnakePliskin

SnakePliskin

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I know everyone (myself included) is upset about what we gave up for Williams and what the Dolphins gave up for Marshall and on the surface it does look like we gave way more, but I thought about it and this is what I found out after digging a little. First, Dallas gave a 1st, 3rd and 6th for Williams and a 7th. Now, I will throw out the seventh for the sixth because they are basically a wash. Dallas got a high 7 for a mid 6th.

Dallas' 1st last year was the 20th pick overall worth 850 points on the trade value chart.

Dallas' third last year was worth 180 points for a total of 1030 points


Detroit selected Brandon Pettigrew TE and Derrick Williams WR respectively with those two picks.

Pettigrew 30 rec 346 yd 3 TD in 11 games
D. Williams 6 rec 52yds 0TD 42 ret 951 yds 22.2 avg 2 fum in 13 games

Roy Williams 38 rec 596 yds 7 TD 15.7 avg in 13 games

Brandon Marshall 101 rec 1120 yds 10 TD 11.1 avg in 15 games

Miami gave a #2 this year and next for Brandon Marshall. This year's 2nd is worth 470 points. Now, of course, I do know that we do not know what the second will be worth next year but the Dolphins have a lot of holes and question marks. I suppose Marshall could lead them to the Super Bowl, but I think we all doubt that. So, if Miami finishes about the same that pick will again be worth around 470 points. for a total of 840. The 2011 2nd could be as high as 580 or as low as 270, for a total of anywhere from 1050 to 740.

Now, do I think Dallas overpaid for what we are getting so far? Yes. Is Roy paid too much yes he is. Is Brandon Marshall a beast? Yes, of course.

But...purely on the basis of the trade on what we gave for what we thought we were getting and what Miami gave for what they are getting it is really not that far off.

This is not a defense of Roy so much as the trade is not as out in left field as it appears. Plus, I know it is too early to tell but while Pettigrew is a nice player so far Detroit is not lighting up the NFL with those picks.

Lastly, just for fun I looked up another former Dallas receiver's stats


35 rec 821 yds 8td 2 fum
36 rec 777 yds 7td 1 fum
35 rec 562 yds 4td 1 fum

These are Alvin Harper's best years in the NFL. Dallas won the Super Bowl twice. So, as long as Austin can play like Irvin and although he gets paid too much to do it if Roy can just play like Alvin we can win a Super Bowl. It can be done, so smile it is not all doom and gloom and the draft is in less than a week!!!:starspin
 
"Snake Pliskin. I thought you were dead?"

Great username from one of my favorite movies. :bow:

Two things. Good post. Prepare thyself.
 
One of the biggest factors everyone leaves out is that Dallas made the trade at the trade deadline which usually means you have to overpay to get the player you want. Dallas made the trade to put them over the top for a superbowl run that year. It didn't work but Jones made the attempt which is all we can ask for as fans.

You also have to factor in that Marshall is a knucklehead and the entire league knows Denver wants him gone. That diminishes his value on the open market. If Marshall wasn't a knucklehead, he probably wouldn't be available but if he was and you tried to trade for him at the deadline, it would be two 1st at a minimum.
 
This has to be one of the lamest threads I've ever read on this forum. Seriously, is this some sort of joke, designed to rub the wounds in deeper?

1. Who Det selected with their picks has nothing to do with anything. The issue is who/what we would have selected with those picks.
2. Marshall is arguably the best receiver in the game, but with huge personal issues. Think: T.O., but with a different Ben and Jerry's flavor set of issues. Marshall would be worth two first round picks if he weren't a head case.
3. Roy has the talent of a #3 or #4 receiver. And he also has issues: his mouth. He might not see any PT at all with most clubs if it weren't for his salary.
4. Even bringing up the production of Det's rookies is irrelevant. Rookie receivers aren't supposed to produce. It's what they do *after* their first year that matters.
 
Miami's trade is better.

Spin cycles and white washing won't change that. Their trade is better. No big deal really but they got a better deal.

Now they just have to hope that Marshall can behave himself.
 
Hoofbite;3350263 said:
Now they just have to hope that Marshall can behave himself.
Click to expand...

Or he will be suspended by the NFL for his next infraction.

The Dolphins are really rolling the dice on Brandon Marshall not becoming a problem off the field.
 
Bluefin;3350283 said:
Or he will be suspended by the NFL for his next infraction.

The Dolphins are really rolling the dice on Brandon Marshall not becoming a problem off the field.
Click to expand...

I'd bet his contract says a little something about behavior.
 
They are going to crush you for posting this.

We gave up to much for RW and I have defended the guy for a long time. The folks that annoy me are the ones who were jumping for joy after the trade happened and now are just beating Roy to death. I did not think we needed him then and we don't need him now, but the situation is what it is.
 
We have painfully fickle fans. 90%+ of those trashing out this trade were absolutely, positively on board with doing it when we did it. They are the kings of myopia and hindsight being 20/20 type observers.

He hasnt been worth it, but it doesnt mean it was the wrong decision at the time it was made. The other issue is everyone assumes (wrong) that Dallas was the ONLY team that wanted Roy Williams.

Maybe he'll turn it around some this yr and make it worthwhile.
 
SnakePliskin;3350217 said:
I know everyone (myself included) is upset about what we gave up for Williams and what the Dolphins gave up for Marshall and on the surface it does look like we gave way more, but I thought about it and this is what I found out after digging a little. First, Dallas gave a 1st, 3rd and 6th for Williams and a 7th. Now, I will throw out the seventh for the sixth because they are basically a wash. Dallas got a high 7 for a mid 6th.

Dallas' 1st last year was the 20th pick overall worth 850 points on the trade value chart.

Dallas' third last year was worth 180 points for a total of 1030 points


Detroit selected Brandon Pettigrew TE and Derrick Williams WR respectively with those two picks.

Pettigrew 30 rec 346 yd 3 TD in 11 games
D. Williams 6 rec 52yds 0TD 42 ret 951 yds 22.2 avg 2 fum in 13 games

Roy Williams 38 rec 596 yds 7 TD 15.7 avg in 13 games

Brandon Marshall 101 rec 1120 yds 10 TD 11.1 avg in 15 games

Miami gave a #2 this year and next for Brandon Marshall. This year's 2nd is worth 470 points. Now, of course, I do know that we do not know what the second will be worth next year but the Dolphins have a lot of holes and question marks. I suppose Marshall could lead them to the Super Bowl, but I think we all doubt that. So, if Miami finishes about the same that pick will again be worth around 470 points. for a total of 840. The 2011 2nd could be as high as 580 or as low as 270, for a total of anywhere from 1050 to 740.

Now, do I think Dallas overpaid for what we are getting so far? Yes. Is Roy paid too much yes he is. Is Brandon Marshall a beast? Yes, of course.

But...purely on the basis of the trade on what we gave for what we thought we were getting and what Miami gave for what they are getting it is really not that far off.

This is not a defense of Roy so much as the trade is not as out in left field as it appears. Plus, I know it is too early to tell but while Pettigrew is a nice player so far Detroit is not lighting up the NFL with those picks.

Lastly, just for fun I looked up another former Dallas receiver's stats


35 rec 821 yds 8td 2 fum
36 rec 777 yds 7td 1 fum
35 rec 562 yds 4td 1 fum

These are Alvin Harper's best years in the NFL. Dallas won the Super Bowl twice. So, as long as Austin can play like Irvin and although he gets paid too much to do it if Roy can just play like Alvin we can win a Super Bowl. It can be done, so smile it is not all doom and gloom and the draft is in less than a week!!!:starspin
Click to expand...

with one caveat. next year's 2nd pick is worth this year's 3rd round pick in terms of draft trades. and miami probably won't have the 12th pick. they did address a great need at WR, and may be better this year than last, so lets say the pick is around 18th. what's the 18th pick of the 3rd round worth?

we gave up way way too much. you compared the stats of two rookies on a bad team with a rookie QB to, cowboys a veteran laden team that won a playoff game. Plus williams has been in the league a while. I say we got shafted if we got about the same production.

and its too much to pay for a WR with a 1st round pick. 1st round picks are at a premium, even if we thought of WIliams highly, which the scouting staff didn't.
 
CowboysFaninDC;3350426 said:
with one caveat. next year's 2nd pick is worth this year's 3rd round pick in terms of draft trades. and miami probably won't have the 12th pick. they did address a great need at WR, and may be better this year than last, so lets say the pick is around 18th. what's the 18th pick of the 3rd round worth?

we gave up way way too much. you compared the stats of two rookies on a bad team with a rookie QB to, cowboys a veteran laden team that won a playoff game. Plus williams has been in the league a while. I say we got shafted if we got about the same production.

and its too much to pay for a WR with a 1st round pick. 1st round picks are at a premium, even if we thought of WIliams highly, which the scouting staff didn't.
Click to expand...

Not trying to start anything with you, but can you direct me to the info that shows the scouting staff was against the Roy trade? Legit question. I had not seen that before. Thanks.
 
SnakePliskin;3350456 said:
Sorry, I'm a idiot.
Click to expand...
Try not to take some of the criticism that way, even though some of the aforementioned criticism offered may be more than what your post necessitated.
 
If you look at trade-value, Marshall was the better trade value.

If you look at stats, , Marshall was the better productivity pickup.

But if you look at circumstances, both players are identical, in that, regardless of their stats or pructivity, their formel teams who drafted them wanted to ofloead them instead of hold onto/renew their contracts.

Edit: Even more circumstances: The Dolphins just gave up two seconds and inherited a knucklehead. While Dallas gave up a first and third essentially for Williams, the move hellped justify getting rid of their knucklehead (T.O.). And Willimans still has a chance to improve this year, which I think he can. And if he does, Then both teams end up with good WRs, except Miami's will still be a knucklehead while Dallas' will be a team player (as always) and now contributor. So in that comparrison, who''s better off?
 
Draft picks the following year are worth one round less than the current year's picks. Miami's 2nd next year is considered equal in point value to their 3rd this year, so if Miami picks in the same spot again next year, Denver got trade value = 470 points for this year's pick + 215 points for next year's pick for a total of 685. That's not even close to the 1030 trade value points Dallas gave up.

When you consider that Marshall is one of the best receivers in the game, it isn't even close. Baltimore gave up their 3rd and 4th round picks for Boldin, who is also a much better receiver than Williams. This front office has made a number of good moves lately, but that trade was not one of them. They got absolutely taken to the cleaners, a fact your comparison only makes all the more evident.
 
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