Mason Graham

[visionary]

You don’t believe a franchise DT can have the impact of a franchise DE?

“Franchise DT” dont go top 10 for a reason

They take time to develop and are unpredictable

Can you list all top 10 franchise DTs in last 20 years?

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

“Franchise DT” dont go top 10 for a reason

They take time to develop and are unpredictable

Can you list all top 10 franchise DTs in last 20 years?

Top 10 draft picks?

Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Jalen Carter, Quinnen Williams, Dexter Lawrence

It’s a hard list to make, because it seems pretty rare for a DT to be as high in his draft class as Mason Graham. Looking back, I didn’t start seeing them until 2010ish. There’s a reason few teams have these guys, making their value that much higher

 

[visionary]

Top 10 draft picks?

Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Jalen Carter, Quinnen Williams, Dexter Lawrence

It’s a hard list to make, because it seems pretty rare for a DT to be as high in his draft class as Mason Graham. Looking back, I didn’t start seeing them until 2010ish. There’s a reason few teams have these guys, making their value that much higher

Now, how many of them were picked after a trade up from outside the top 10? Which would mean that you would give up at least your 2 and 3 or possibly next years 1

This is why my rule is the right rule

You never trade up from outside the top 10, into the top 10 except for franchise QB, franchise LOT or franchise DE

Period

Drafting and team building are not that difficult if you understand the game, its history and follow simple rules without emotion

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Now, how many of them were picked after a trade up from outside the top 10? Which would mean that you would give up at least your 2 and 3 or possibly next years 1

This is why my rule is the right rule

You never trade up from outside the top 10, into the top 10 except for franchise QB, franchise LOT or franchise DE

Period

Drafting and team building are not that difficult if you understand the game, its history and follow simple rules without emotion

Counter argument: Teams that have the opportunity to draft one of a kind DT’s like this are significantly less willing to part with the pick than other positions

 

[visionary]

Counter argument: Teams that have the opportunity to draft one of a kind DT’s like this are significantly less willing to part with the pick than other positions

I have idea what that means

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

I have idea what that means

There are fewer dominant DT’s in the NFL than there are pro bowl caliber QBs or LT’s, and it’s also a position where you can give 2(or more) significant playing time. If you have the 3rd pick and Dexter Lawrence is on the board, you are significantly less likely to trade out of that pick than if you had the 3rd overall pick and had just taken Tua the year prior with SF on the line wanting to give 3 1sts to take Trey Lance.

I’m saying the scarcity of top 10 DT trades isn’t because they’re not worth it, it’s because the opportunity to trade up for a premium DT is dramatically rarer. We moved up to 9 to get Jalen Carter because Chicago didn’t trust his off the field behavior. If he were a saint, there wouldn’t be a (reasonable) draft haul conceivable that they would have let go of that player.

Now if you’re saying Mason is overvalued and he’ll be there at 12, that’s your opinion and that’s fair. But otherwise; If someone says “sure we’re listening and Mason Graham is on the board”, this is a once in a lifetime

 

[visionary]

There are fewer dominant DT’s in the NFL than there are pro bowl caliber QBs or LT’s, and it’s also a position where you can give 2(or more) significant playing time. If you have the 3rd pick and Dexter Lawrence is on the board, you are significantly less likely to trade out of that pick than if you had the 3rd overall pick and had just taken Tua the year prior with SF on the line wanting to give 3 1sts to take Trey Lance.

I’m saying the scarcity of top 10 DT trades isn’t because they’re not worth it, it’s because the opportunity to trade up for a premium DT is dramatically rarer. We moved up to 9 to get Jalen Carter because Chicago didn’t trust his off the field behavior. If he were a saint, there wouldn’t be a (reasonable) draft haul conceivable that they would have let go of that player.

Now if you’re saying Mason is overvalued and he’ll be there at 12, that’s your opinion and that’s fair. But otherwise; If someone says “sure we’re listening and Mason Graham is on the board”, this is a once in a lifetime

By your logic they should be the number 1 overall pick then if theyre more scarce than top QB, LOT and franchise DE

You have not shown my any instance any team trading up for one in the top 10 even once in the last 20 years. Yet there are multiple instances of teams trading up for other positions with multiple rd 1 picks

Are you seriously telling me that if a team had offered Philly 3 rd 1 picks they wouldnt have traded down?

Argument makes zero sense so im done with it

Thx

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

By your logic they should be the number 1 overall pick then if theyre more scarce than top QB, LOT and franchise DE

You have not shown my any instance any team trading up for one in the top 10 even once in the last 20 years. Yet there are multiple instances of teams trading up for other positions with multiple rd 1 picks

Are you seriously telling me that if a team had offered Philly 3 rd 1 picks they wouldnt have traded down?

Argument makes zero sense so im done with it

Thx

That’s a hyperbolic way to misrepresent it. I’m not saying they’re more valuable than QBs, I’m simply pointing out the flaw in your philosophy that positions with only 1 starter are traded more often.

There are less consistently pro bowl Caliber DTs in the NFL, as well as fewer that come out in the draft every year, and it is a position that 2 or 3 can be sustained on a team at any time. By logic, the probability of a team declining to take said player and trading down will be far lower than a position that only starts 1 player and has (on average) a more prevalent draft pool within the first 10 picks. IE if you have a LT and an LT is the top guy on the board, you will more likely trade down to get the best value in the trade package.

And I brought up Jalen Carter, we traded up to 9 to get him. If all I need is 1, that’s 1. Your trade hypothetical with the 3 1sts is unreasonable, no one would offer that for a DT (or a LT, or a DE). Great DT’s are comparably valuable to team success as DE’s and LT’s, but their scarcity in pre-draft projections makes them that much less likely to be over-scrutinized. Doesn’t mean you have to overdraft them or offer an impossible draft capital proposal.

 

[ChronicCowboy]

How anyone can want a Michigan d-lineman after our recent history with them is beyond me.