McShay Mock 4.0 4/4/23

[big dog cowboy]

18. Detroit Lions - Bijan Robinson RB Texas

53. Chicago Bears (Baltimore) - Zach Charbonnet RB UCLA

That would disappoint a lot of people.

 

[J-man]

All the media types want us to reach for a TE because we lost Shultz. I don't see it at all. They like the 3 they have and we have bigger need areas to add a starter than TE. Interesting to see he has PSU TE Brenton Strange going 54 to the LAC. I know he's better than most people realize, but I haven't seen anyone mock him anywhere near that high. I guess he knows too.

But IMHO, OL, WR, CB, DE, LB are the areas to watch.
Going off of his draft board, I'd have taken either WR Addison, OG Torrence or OLB White instead.

 

[xwalker]

Mayer is meh in the 1st to me…but would be a giant whiff in this scenario considering what’s available when we pick.

Let's keep your post for a year...

 

[cnuball21]

Let's keep your post for a year...

That’s fine, but we should probably keep it longer than 1 year unless you think we’ll know everything we need to know about Mayer as a pro after his rookie season.

 

[CherBoyWade]

All the media types want us to reach for a TE because we lost Shultz. I don't see it at all. They like the 3 they have and we have bigger need areas to add a starter than TE. Interesting to see he has PSU TE Brenton Strange going 54 to the LAC. I know he's better than most people realize, but I haven't seen anyone mock him anywhere near that high. I guess he knows too.

But IMHO, OL, WR, CB, DE, LB are the areas to watch.
Going off of his draft board, I'd have taken either WR Addison, OG Torrence or OLB White instead.

We have bigger starter needs than TE? Mayyyyyybe OG or DT but not even sure that's true. I can totally see the argument of "a starting TE isn't as important as just grabbing a talented guy at a more important position" but Hendershot and Ferguson have officially become overrated on here. We all like their flashes, but neither is even close to a lock to even be an average starting TE.

If any other position was relying on 2 guys that young and inexperienced, we'd say it's one of or the weakest starting spots on this roster.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Mayer - - per the review up above

- Not Much Of A Vertical Threat
-His feet are a little heavy getting into and through his routes,

NFL Draft Buzz -

• Athletic profile limiting factor - Lacks Run-Away Athlete Speed
• Nightmare to fight at catch point
• Functional strength is good but not dominant
• Blocking technique not always clean
• Not likely to win foot races with defensive backs
• Does not have an expansive route tree

Draft Network -

• Traditional positional value will scorn his draft range as a tight end
• Not the most dynamic player in the passing game; more of a possession player
• Tight ends typically require extended runway upon NFL transition to maximize potential

Pro Football Network -

The major concern for NFL analysts over Mayer is his lack of elite athleticism. There are faster tight ends in the class who can get vertically far more quickly than the Fighting Irish phenom. Additionally, there are more laterally exceptional tight ends prospects who can break from routes with more sharpness and, thus, are more likely to create separation.

Although he’s routinely a reliable target in the passing game, there were several concentration drops on film. Meanwhile, there were some bobbled efforts that you’d like to see snagged more securely to minimize the chances of having the ball knocked away.

Athlon -

He isn't unathletic, but Mayer is clearly a notch below the NFL's top tight ends when it comes to explosiveness. He didn't turn in many big plays at Notre Dame, functioning more as an intermediate target who competes but doesn't create a ton after the catch. As a blocker, he often relied on pure strength and competitiveness to handle collegiate opponents, but he will have to become more refined in the NFL.

Bleacher -

— Somewhat underwhelming blocker for his size; more functional than good.

— Average speed, both with and without the ball.

***************************************

What about lack of separation do you folks not read into this guy's negatives?

Not explosive. Not top flight athleticism. Slow footed. Competes but doesn't create a ton of catches.
All I heard this past season as people spit on Schultz was Hendershot and Ferguson will take his place nicely. Now the hue and cry is to go get a lumbering TE that blocks, but will not challenge anywhere but intermediate routes yet doesn't create catches.

If you are looking for a blocker, why not just take a guard and select a TE later?

 

[J-man]

We have bigger starter needs than TE? Mayyyyyybe OG or DT but not even sure that's true. I can totally see the argument of "a starting TE isn't as important as just grabbing a talented guy at a more important position" but Hendershot and Ferguson have officially become overrated on here. We all like their flashes, but neither is even close to a lock to even be an average starting TE.

If any other position was relying on 2 guys that young and inexperienced, we'd say it's one of or the weakest starting spots on this roster.

I think a starter at either OG, WR, CB, DE, LB are all needed more than at TE.
Remember that big Mike is calling the plays now and he has never valued the TE very highly.

Dalton will be missed because he could get open underneath and make the catch. That gave Dak the security blanket he needed, which got him a lot of touches and highlights. If we don't get good production out of Cooks or a drafted WR, we will miss him badly. But from day 1, I thought that Shultz was a progress stopper for those other guys.
I personally see a lot of Jason Witten in Ferguson. He isn't flashy like Shultz, but he can get open, catch and block well. I think he can be a legit high quality all around TE for us.
And I see a nasty fireplug in Hendershot. He can make plays and start fights. He will knock the crap out of DB's getting under their skin while blocking for WR's. And then streak down the side line for a TD no one saw coming.

 

[InPhiltraitor]

We haven't even drafted him yet and you're already hating.

Nah...not hating.

That's why I stated my comment was based on one game which is not really fair and I suggested he just may have better tape out there.

I gave him a compliment on his lateral movement and that the guy looks the part of an athlete. He's been given plenty of props by others that get paid lots of money to build-up/tear-down prospects. I'm aware that I don't count.

Think that's a far cry from the all-to-typical, "he sucks, I don't want him", that periodically crops up on this board. Give me a game where he excelled and I'll gladly watch the whole thing.

 

[Carson]

Which means nothing.

Disagree.

Jerry doesn’t draft TE, DT, Safety (other than Roy) high.

They are typically obvious with which way they are going.

Guarantee if it’s a OL, TE or DE at 26, they go DE

 

[DanA]

I think a starter at either OG, WR, CB, DE, LB are all needed more than at TE.
Remember that big Mike is calling the plays now and he has never valued the TE very highly.

Dalton will be missed because he could get open underneath and make the catch. That gave Dak the security blanket he needed, which got him a lot of touches and highlights. If we don't get good production out of Cooks or a drafted WR, we will miss him badly. But from day 1, I thought that Shultz was a progress stopper for those other guys.
I personally see a lot of Jason Witten in Ferguson. He isn't flashy like Shultz, but he can get open, catch and block well. I think he can be a legit high quality all around TE for us.
And I see a nasty fireplug in Hendershot. He can make plays and start fights. He will knock the crap out of DB's getting under their skin while blocking for WR's. And then streak down the side line for a TD no one saw coming.

No way is CB and DE are needed more than TE in 2023. I get the contract situation and that you are drafting for 5-years but you want a 1st round pick to start day 1 and I struggle to see that happening in these positions. We also have too many guys in both positions, I don’t want us to carry 7 CB’s and 6 DE’s which is likely to be the case if we drafted either in the 1st round. I’m okay carry four TE’s though and McKeon could easily be cut trimming us to three.

You can make an argument for CB or DE on positional value grounds but it’s definitely not a bigger need.

 

[reddyuta]

No way is CB and DE are needed more than TE in 2023. I get the contract situation and that you are drafting for 5-years but you want a 1st round pick to start day 1 and I struggle to see that happening in these positions. We also have too many guys in both positions, I don’t want us to carry 7 CB’s and 6 DE’s which is likely to be the case if we drafted either in the 1st round. I’m okay carry four TE’s though and McKeon could easily be cut trimming us to three.

You can make an argument for CB or DE on positional value grounds but it’s definitely not a bigger need.

this is a good argument but i will still draft BPA in RD 1.

 

[CherBoyWade]

I think a starter at either OG, WR, CB, DE, LB are all needed more than at TE.
Remember that big Mike is calling the plays now and he has never valued the TE very highly.

Dalton will be missed because he could get open underneath and make the catch. That gave Dak the security blanket he needed, which got him a lot of touches and highlights. If we don't get good production out of Cooks or a drafted WR, we will miss him badly. But from day 1, I thought that Shultz was a progress stopper for those other guys.
I personally see a lot of Jason Witten in Ferguson. He isn't flashy like Shultz, but he can get open, catch and block well. I think he can be a legit high quality all around TE for us.
And I see a nasty fireplug in Hendershot. He can make plays and start fights. He will knock the crap out of DB's getting under their skin while blocking for WR's. And then streak down the side line for a TD no one saw coming.

Mayer - - per the review up above

- Not Much Of A Vertical Threat
-His feet are a little heavy getting into and through his routes,

NFL Draft Buzz -

• Athletic profile limiting factor - Lacks Run-Away Athlete Speed
• Nightmare to fight at catch point
• Functional strength is good but not dominant
• Blocking technique not always clean
• Not likely to win foot races with defensive backs
• Does not have an expansive route tree

Draft Network -

• Traditional positional value will scorn his draft range as a tight end
• Not the most dynamic player in the passing game; more of a possession player
• Tight ends typically require extended runway upon NFL transition to maximize potential

Pro Football Network -

The major concern for NFL analysts over Mayer is his lack of elite athleticism. There are faster tight ends in the class who can get vertically far more quickly than the Fighting Irish phenom. Additionally, there are more laterally exceptional tight ends prospects who can break from routes with more sharpness and, thus, are more likely to create separation.

Although he’s routinely a reliable target in the passing game, there were several concentration drops on film. Meanwhile, there were some bobbled efforts that you’d like to see snagged more securely to minimize the chances of having the ball knocked away.

Athlon -

He isn't unathletic, but Mayer is clearly a notch below the NFL's top tight ends when it comes to explosiveness. He didn't turn in many big plays at Notre Dame, functioning more as an intermediate target who competes but doesn't create a ton after the catch. As a blocker, he often relied on pure strength and competitiveness to handle collegiate opponents, but he will have to become more refined in the NFL.

Bleacher -

— Somewhat underwhelming blocker for his size; more functional than good.

— Average speed, both with and without the ball.

***************************************

What about lack of separation do you folks not read into this guy's negatives?

Not explosive. Not top flight athleticism. Slow footed. Competes but doesn't create a ton of catches.
All I heard this past season as people spit on Schultz was Hendershot and Ferguson will take his place nicely. Now the hue and cry is to go get a lumbering TE that blocks, but will not challenge anywhere but intermediate routes yet doesn't create catches.

If you are looking for a blocker, why not just take a guard and select a TE later?

Gronk was not explosive. Witten was not explosive. Ertz is not explosive. Sharpe was not explosive.

Being explosive is not the only way to win as a TE (or WR—the list of "slow" elite WRs is also long starting with the GOAT Jerry Rice). You're making Mayer out to be Darnell Washington as a receiving prospect as if Mayer is not one of the most productive receiving TEs in CFB of the 21st century.

Explain to me how a guy with over 2000 career receiving yards in 3 years as a TE with mostly average-below average QB play "doesn't create catches". Give me a break man. You can just say you want more of a vertical threat at TE. You don't have to expose yourself for clearly never having watched the player. He had 800+ yards last year despite being consistently double-teamed pretty much every game. That tells you all you need to know about his route running and hands, it also tells you his "lack of athleticism" didn't really hold him back all that much.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Gronk was not explosive. Witten was not explosive. Ertz is not explosive. Sharpe was not explosive.

Being explosive is not the only way to win as a TE (or WR—the list of "slow" elite WRs is also long starting with the GOAT Jerry Rice). You're making Mayer out to be Darnell Washington as a receiving prospect as if Mayer is not one of the most productive receiving TEs in CFB of the 21st century.

Explain to me how a guy with over 2000 career receiving yards in 3 years as a TE with mostly average-below average QB play "doesn't create catches". Give me a break man. You can just say you want more of a vertical threat at TE. You don't have to expose yourself for clearly never having watched the player. He had 800+ yards last year despite being consistently double-teamed pretty much every game. That tells you all you need to know about his route running and hands, it also tells you his "lack of athleticism" didn't really hold him back all that much.

I would agree with you except it seems there are several sites which state the same thing. This guy is not a first round pick. You surely may see it your way. But this team needs something other than another big slow TE.

 

[ghst187]

If Avila drops that far and we don’t jump in the second to grab him I’m going to be upset

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Many other combos I would rather have in the first two rounds.
Do not hate it but not a big fan of that combo either.

 

[xwalker]

Mayer - - per the review up above

- Not Much Of A Vertical Threat
-His feet are a little heavy getting into and through his routes,

NFL Draft Buzz -

• Athletic profile limiting factor - Lacks Run-Away Athlete Speed
• Nightmare to fight at catch point
• Functional strength is good but not dominant
• Blocking technique not always clean
• Not likely to win foot races with defensive backs
• Does not have an expansive route tree

Draft Network -

• Traditional positional value will scorn his draft range as a tight end
• Not the most dynamic player in the passing game; more of a possession player
• Tight ends typically require extended runway upon NFL transition to maximize potential

Pro Football Network -

The major concern for NFL analysts over Mayer is his lack of elite athleticism. There are faster tight ends in the class who can get vertically far more quickly than the Fighting Irish phenom. Additionally, there are more laterally exceptional tight ends prospects who can break from routes with more sharpness and, thus, are more likely to create separation.

Although he’s routinely a reliable target in the passing game, there were several concentration drops on film. Meanwhile, there were some bobbled efforts that you’d like to see snagged more securely to minimize the chances of having the ball knocked away.

Athlon -

He isn't unathletic, but Mayer is clearly a notch below the NFL's top tight ends when it comes to explosiveness. He didn't turn in many big plays at Notre Dame, functioning more as an intermediate target who competes but doesn't create a ton after the catch. As a blocker, he often relied on pure strength and competitiveness to handle collegiate opponents, but he will have to become more refined in the NFL.

Bleacher -

— Somewhat underwhelming blocker for his size; more functional than good.

— Average speed, both with and without the ball.

***************************************

What about lack of separation do you folks not read into this guy's negatives?

Not explosive. Not top flight athleticism. Slow footed. Competes but doesn't create a ton of catches.
All I heard this past season as people spit on Schultz was Hendershot and Ferguson will take his place nicely. Now the hue and cry is to go get a lumbering TE that blocks, but will not challenge anywhere but intermediate routes yet doesn't create catches.

If you are looking for a blocker, why not just take a guard and select a TE later?

All wrong.

Keep in mind Witten was a 3rd round pick.

I wanted to draft Witten in the 1st.

 

[John813]

My fear with Simpson is that he's Bruce Carter. Athletically gifted, looks the part, but can get lost and in the NFL his athletics won't be able to save his recognition issues most of the time.

 

[CowboyoWales]

We have bigger starter needs than TE? Mayyyyyybe OG or DT but not even sure that's true. I can totally see the argument of "a starting TE isn't as important as just grabbing a talented guy at a more important position" but Hendershot and Ferguson have officially become overrated on here. We all like their flashes, but neither is even close to a lock to even be an average starting TE.

If any other position was relying on 2 guys that young and inexperienced, we'd say it's one of or the weakest starting spots on this roster.

That smacks of drafting for position - a big no.
Draft talent.

that includes potentially a TE as we're judging Fergushot on TE2/3 production and expecting the same as a TE1. Neither of which gives much input in the run game, and Dak loves him a TE.

 

[Risen Star]

We have bigger starter needs than TE? Mayyyyyybe OG or DT but not even sure that's true. I can totally see the argument of "a starting TE isn't as important as just grabbing a talented guy at a more important position" but Hendershot and Ferguson have officially become overrated on here. We all like their flashes, but neither is even close to a lock to even be an average starting TE.

If any other position was relying on 2 guys that young and inexperienced, we'd say it's one of or the weakest starting spots on this roster.

If it was happening at cornerback these guys would all be on Valium.

 

[J-man]

Gronk was not explosive. Witten was not explosive. Ertz is not explosive. Sharpe was not explosive.

Being explosive is not the only way to win as a TE (or WR—the list of "slow" elite WRs is also long starting with the GOAT Jerry Rice). You're making Mayer out to be Darnell Washington as a receiving prospect as if Mayer is not one of the most productive receiving TEs in CFB of the 21st century.

Explain to me how a guy with over 2000 career receiving yards in 3 years as a TE with mostly average-below average QB play "doesn't create catches". Give me a break man. You can just say you want more of a vertical threat at TE. You don't have to expose yourself for clearly never having watched the player. He had 800+ yards last year despite being consistently double-teamed pretty much every game. That tells you all you need to know about his route running and hands, it also tells you his "lack of athleticism" didn't really hold him back all that much.

Why is my post included in this rant? I said nothing about the player, just the need for drafting him.