Melvin Ingram is a beast

[Future]

I don't see this burst problem people keep talking about. I guess he could be faster but I think he still has great speed to get around the corner.

He reminds me alot of Terrell Suggs.
But other than Ingram Upshaw, Hightower, and Irvin is our only options if we don't bring Spencer back.
I'm not going to trust a 2nd round or 3rd round OLB to start day one.

I just think he looks slow for a guy whose supposed to be a ridiculous athlete. It's hard to tell I guess.

I don't think any of them are going to give us the production Spencer does, believe it or not. And if signing Spencer we can use #14 on a CB or OLine, it's totally worth it imo.

I think he was talking about Red Bryant

You're correct, I misread.

 

[supercowboy8]

I just think he looks slow for a guy whose supposed to be a ridiculous athlete. It's hard to tell I guess.

I don't think any of them are going to give us the production Spencer does, believe it or not. And if signing Spencer we can use #14 on a CB or OLine, it's totally worth it imo.

I agree for this year for sure. That why I said if Spencer walks then your pick at 14 has to be OLB. I guess we could spend big money on Avril and hope he can play SOLB, but this was the first year Avril has ever had double digit sack number and he is playing in a 4-3 next to Suh. So Suh get doubled every down and Avril is one on one, shouldn't he get more than 11 sacks?

The only think we can do is
1. spend big money on Spencer
2. spend big money on Avril
3. use the 14th pick on a SOLB
4. draft a OLB later and play against the odds and hope he can come on and play atleast as good as Spencer day one.

 

[jnday]

I agree for this year for sure. That why I said if Spencer walks then your pick at 14 has to be OLB. I guess we could spend big money on Avril and hope he can play SOLB, but this was the first year Avril has ever had double digit sack number and he is playing in a 4-3 next to Suh. So Suh get doubled every down and Avril is one on one, shouldn't he get more than 11 sacks?

The only think we can do is
1. spend big money on Spencer
2. spend big money on Avril
3. use the 14th pick on a SOLB
4. draft a OLB later and play against the odds and hope he can come on and play atleast as good as Spencer day one.

Unless an OLB blows up the combine , I don't want to reach just to say that the position was addressed with the 14th pick . I would like another Ware too , but reaching at 14 is not the way to get one .

 

[rooler]

Unless an OLB blows up the combine , I don't want to reach just to say that the position was addressed with the 14th pick . I would like another Ware too , but reaching at 14 is not the way to get one .

Walters Mock

16 Jets Courtney Upshaw, DE/OLB, Alabama
18 SD San Diego Chargers: Nick Perry, DE/OLB, USC
20 Tennessee Titans: Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina
27 Steelers Dont'a Hightower, ILB, Alabama

I think we better grab the one we like the best at 14 no screwing around

you can make a plea for any of those guys at 14 IMO

 

[tm1119]

Walters Mock

16 Jets Courtney Upshaw, DE/OLB, Alabama
18 SD San Diego Chargers: Nick Perry, DE/OLB, USC
20 Tennessee Titans: Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina
27 Steelers Dont'a Hightower, ILB, Alabama

I think we better grab the one we like the best at 14 no screwing around

you can make a plea for any of those guys at 14 IMO

I love Ingram, his size and athleticism is extremely rare. However, after him Im not sure what separates the other 3 from the likes of Vinny Curry, Brandon Lindsey, Ronnell Lewis, Andre Branch, Shea McClellin, or Bruce Irvin who can all be had in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. I guess we are going to have to rely on combine #'s and make the best choice if we do decide to go the route of OLB early on.

 

[Woods]

I agree for this year for sure. That why I said if Spencer walks then your pick at 14 has to be OLB. I guess we could spend big money on Avril and hope he can play SOLB, but this was the first year Avril has ever had double digit sack number and he is playing in a 4-3 next to Suh. So Suh get doubled every down and Avril is one on one, shouldn't he get more than 11 sacks?

The only think we can do is
1. spend big money on Spencer
2. spend big money on Avril
3. use the 14th pick on a SOLB
4. draft a OLB later and play against the odds and hope he can come on and play atleast as good as Spencer day one.

Do you consider either Upshaw or Ingram as appreciably better than Spencer? I don't mean getting 7 or 8 sacks vs. 6 sacks (like Spencer). But significantly better? Like getting double digit sacks and much more consistent pressure?

From what I can make out from various posters on this forum, neither of those two guys really stick out as THAT much better than Spencer - if they are even projected better than Spencer at all.

But I have to admit, I don't watch college football so I'm just trying to piece together info from draft sites and posters on this forum.

What's your opinion?

 

[jnday]

Walters Mock

16 Jets Courtney Upshaw, DE/OLB, Alabama
18 SD San Diego Chargers: Nick Perry, DE/OLB, USC
20 Tennessee Titans: Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina
27 Steelers Dont'a Hightower, ILB, Alabama

I think we better grab the one we like the best at 14 no screwing around

you can make a plea for any of those guys at 14 IMO

Ingram is the only one that I would consider at 14 and I wonder if he would be an upgrade to Spencer . My first impression is that he won't .

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Do you consider either Upshaw or Ingram as appreciably better than Spencer? I don't mean getting 7 or 8 sacks vs. 6 sacks (like Spencer). But significantly better? Like getting double digit sacks and much more consistent pressure?

From what I can make out from various posters on this forum, neither of those two guys really stick out as THAT much better than Spencer - if they are even projected better than Spencer at all.

But I have to admit, I don't watch college football so I'm just trying to piece together info from draft sites and posters on this forum.

What's your opinion?

That's how I see it.

I don't think any of these guys is going to blow Spencer's production out of the water... meaning one of these guys pulling down 12 sacks a year and giving the same kind of defense vs the run that Spencer does.

Letting Spencer leave and spending a 1st round pick on a similar player? To me that's the team spinning its wheels.

 

[tm1119]

That's how I see it.

I don't think any of these guys is going to blow Spencer's production out of the water... meaning one of these guys pulling down 12 sacks a year and giving the same kind of defense vs the run that Spencer does.

Letting Spencer leave and spending a 1st round pick on a similar player? To me that's the team spinning its wheels.

Makes sense to me. However, I would like to take a situational pass rusher to team with Spencer in the 3rd or 4th round. Let Spencer play running downs, and have a pure pass rusher for obvious passing downs.

 

[jnday]

That's how I see it.

I don't think any of these guys is going to blow Spencer's production out of the water... meaning one of these guys pulling down 12 sacks a year and giving the same kind of defense vs the run that Spencer does.

Letting Spencer leave and spending a 1st round pick on a similar player? To me that's the team spinning its wheels.

I don't mind using a second on a player like V. Curry where need meets value , but we have too many holes to target just one position . Especially when that position is considered weak in this draft . I agree with your thinking on this . You make some good points .

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Makes sense to me. However, I would like to take a situational pass rusher to team with Spencer in the 3rd or 4th round. Let Spencer play running downs, and have a pure pass rusher for obvious passing downs.

I like that option.

Resign Spencer and get a developmental player part-way through the draft.

 

[Future]

I love Ingram, his size and athleticism is extremely rare. However, after him Im not sure what separates the other 3 from the likes of Vinny Curry, Brandon Lindsey, Ronnell Lewis, Andre Branch, Shea McClellin, or Bruce Irvin who can all be had in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. I guess we are going to have to rely on combine #'s and make the best choice if we do decide to go the route of OLB early on.

EXACTLY. It's the same with corner back after Kirkpatrick.

That's why we HAVE to get DeCastro if he's available. HAVE to.

I'd be totally fine with your sig.

 

[supercowboy8]

Unless an OLB blows up the combine , I don't want to reach just to say that the position was addressed with the 14th pick . I would like another Ware too , but reaching at 14 is not the way to get one .

I don't think 14 is to early.
McShay has him 12th overall
CBS sports has him at 14th overall
Wes Bunting has him at 19th overall

I don't think that is much of a reach

Ingram reminds me alot of Terrell Suggs, he can play DT, DE, and OLB. He can get pressure up the middle, around the end, and can drop back into coverage.

 

[supercowboy8]

Do you consider either Upshaw or Ingram as appreciably better than Spencer? I don't mean getting 7 or 8 sacks vs. 6 sacks (like Spencer). But significantly better? Like getting double digit sacks and much more consistent pressure?

From what I can make out from various posters on this forum, neither of those two guys really stick out as THAT much better than Spencer - if they are even projected better than Spencer at all.

But I have to admit, I don't watch college football so I'm just trying to piece together info from draft sites and posters on this forum.

What's your opinion?

yes I think 3 or 4 years into the NFL both will be better than Spencer. I like Spencer and would bring him back but depends on the money.

Ingram, Upshaw, and Hightower can do it all if you can get a rookie that can come in day one and replace a starter of 5 years, thats a pretty good pick and a big money saver that you can use on other places.

I think Ingram can be Suggs good. The guy has amazing athleticism. Comparing him to Whitney or Curry is just flat out wrong.
SOLB is much more than just sacks, Can you stand up on your feet and flip your hips, can you cover, can you hold your ground and stop the run, and you drop a shoulder and get through a TE and RT to get to the QB. These are things I haven't seen from Curry or Whitney.

Ingram played QB,WR, safety, OLB, DE, DT, running back, and kicker in highschool. He has lined up at DT, DE, and OLB in college playing in the strong SEC and not some weak big 10 or playing Marshals weak schedule.

 

[supercowboy8]

EXACTLY. It's the same with corner back after Kirkpatrick.

That's why we HAVE to get DeCastro if he's available. HAVE to.

I'd be totally fine with your sig.

I like DeCastro but I can get a day one starter OG in the 3rd, but I can't get a day one starting CB or OLB in the 3rd. If you let Newman and Spencer go then who do replace him with? a 2nd and 3rd round pick.

 

[supercowboy8]

I like that option.

Resign Spencer and get a developmental player part-way through the draft.

so you pay Spencer 7-9 million a year and use a draft pick on another OLB, why? I mean why not use that pick on another position. Spencer will sign a long term deal so if he is resigned he is here for another 3-4 years.

 

[supercowboy8]

I love Ingram, his size and athleticism is extremely rare. However, after him Im not sure what separates the other 3 from the likes of Vinny Curry, Brandon Lindsey, Ronnell Lewis, Andre Branch, Shea McClellin, or Bruce Irvin who can all be had in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. I guess we are going to have to rely on combine #'s and make the best choice if we do decide to go the route of OLB early on.

I'm with you, after the top tier of Ingram, Upshaw and Hightower, tier 2 is all abot the same and you won't get much out of them.

Curry and Whitney, have never had to cover, play LB, and non are good vs the run.
Branch is just a pass rusher and struggles vs the run and in coverage.

Lewis looks like a true 4-3 SOLB and not enough speed to rush the passer.

Bruce Irvin and Nick Perry are two I need to see more of. Both are very athletic and good pass rushers. Irvin is hurt by the defense he plays in, a 3-3-5 defense is hard to get sacks and pressure in, which is what Irvin plays in.

Tier 1 early-mid round 1
Melvin Ingram
Courtney Upshaw
Donta Hightower


Tier 2 late round 1-mid 2
Nick Perry
Bruce Irvin

Tier 3 late round 2 -round 3
Vinny Curry
Whitney Mercilus
Andre Branch
Cam Johnson

 

[jnday]

I like DeCastro but I can get a day one starter OG in the 3rd, but I can't get a day one starting CB or OLB in the 3rd. If you let Newman and Spencer go then who do replace him with? a 2nd and 3rd round pick.

What guard do you see as being a day one starter that can be picked up in the third ? If you are this sure , you need to do this for a living .

 

[tm1119]

What guard do you see as being a day one starter that can be picked up in the third ? If you are this sure , you need to do this for a living .

Theres only 4 guards in this draft that I see being day 1 starters. DeCastro, Glenn, Osemele, and Zeitler. They will most likely go off of the board in that order with Osemele being on the fringe of getting to us at #45. So that means we could only be looking at Zeitler and having to pull the trigger on him in the 2nd. The obvious thing is to go with the no-brainer of DeCastro in the 1st and take advantage of the depth at CB and address that position in the 2nd or 3rd(boykin, hayward, gilmore, ect.). OLB is a little more dicey, but there is still some talent to be had in the 2nd/3rd(Curry, McClellin, Branch, Irvin, Lindsay)

 

[Future]

I like DeCastro but I can get a day one starter OG in the 3rd, but I can't get a day one starting CB or OLB in the 3rd. If you let Newman and Spencer go then who do replace him with? a 2nd and 3rd round pick.

Well in a perfect world I'd resign Spencer and play for Carr/Grimes. Then I take DeCastro and the best cb or passrusher available in the 2nd and third.

Those guys will then be depth if they can't start, but there's a chance they can. We don't have the luxury of capable starters at guard.