Moral Dilemma - blood transfusion

Reverend Conehead

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,938
Reaction score
11,822
Note: I did not serve in the military. If I get some military terms or practice wrong, I request that you cut me some slack.

You're in command of a small unit abroad that must engage a dangerous enemy. For the most part you're happy with the troops under your command. They work hard, they're loyal, and they promptly obey your orders.

However, there's one soldier who concerns you, Private Burke. One day you overhear him talking. He says he hates Private Goldstein, and that he knew him in high school, and that Goldstein had stolen his girlfriend. He describes Goldstein with several derogatory slurs and says he hopes he gets blown up by an enemy's IED and then dies a horrible, painful, slow death. He then laughs, and says he put a dangerous scorpion in Private Goldstein's boot.

So you have the barracks inspected, and it turns out to be true. A scorpion is indeed in Private Goldstein's boot. It's a type of scorpion that would not have killed a person, but it would have seriously injured him and made him sick for several days. You have that danger eradicated, and then you call Private Burke into your office to reprimand him. You order him to no longer harass Private Goldstein. You order him to do a bunch of extra work, that's dirty, extremely difficult, and very undesirable. You tell him that Private Goldberg is his comrade in arms, and that he is to put any personal feelings aside and to work with him just like he would any other soldier. You tell him if he ever pulls any such stunt like that again, he'll be court martialed.

Private Burke obeys all your orders. He not only does all of the dirty work you assigned to him, he does a great job at it. From then on, he treats Private Goldstein with respect. There are no more incidents.

However, one day, Private Goldstein is hit by enemy fire and is taken to the medical unit. He's lost a lot of blood and needs a transfusion, or he'll die. His blood type is AB negative, which is the rarest type. A recent enemy bomb had destroyed all blood reserves, so the only chance to save him is from a transfusion from another soldier. Luckily, there is one other soldier whose type is AB negative: Private Burke. So the doctor calls him in and asks him to give the transfusion. Burke refuses. He says that Private Goldstein is the scumbag who stole the love of his life from him, Emily, and he'll never forgive him, and will therefore not consent to the transfusion. The doctor emphasizes that he'll die without it, and Private Burke simply shrugs his shoulders and says, “Then he'll die.” He says that, even if he's ordered to, he won't comply. They'll have to physically restrain him and force him to do it. He says, “Goldberg is a worthless piece of crap who deserves to die.”

You're made aware of the situation. You could order Private Burke to give the transfusion, though that would violate his right to bodily autonomy, and is an order which he will not obey. It would be an order to give up his blood without his consent. However, it would save Private Goldberg's life.

Do you order him to do the transfusion against his consent? The order will mean that you also have to order other soldiers to physically restrain him in order to force him to do it against his will.

Do you have him physically forced against his will to do the transfusion?
 

Mountaineerfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,339
Reaction score
1,359
I don't know that soldiers would have a right to bodily autonomy. I've never been in the military but I would think this would have been addressed as soon as the blood bank got deleted and before the evil girl thief got hurt. otherwise you just do what you must.
 

Reverend Conehead

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,938
Reaction score
11,822
I order the forced blood transfusions.

I have to admit, I would do the same. I couldn't just watch a man die who could be saved. Maybe it's possible to sedate Private Burke so that he can't fight as hard against it. I might also see about kicking him out of the military, if possible. His attitude sucks. I'm not sure if you could throw him out with a general discharge due to unsuitability for service or if his behavior warrants a dishonorable discharge. Maybe someone who's been in the military could tell us. I just wouldn't be real thrilled about having someone with a vindictive attitude like that in my unit. It makes me think he would deliberately expose Private Goldstein to danger and then have the excuse that the enemy killed him.
 
Last edited:

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
59,278
Reaction score
57,507
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Answer: order the blood transfusion

It is for the good of both privates. It is one thing to refuse donating blood for a routine occasion, like a volunteer blood drive. It is another thing to not help save another soldier's life, who is in critical condition and can possibly recover with a blood transfusion.

Military life is not a civilian one. The you-know-what will hit the fan once Private Goldstein dies and word gets out that Private Burke could have helped save him. Then the tables will turn on Private Burke because the same animosity he directed at Private Goldstein will now be directed at him by everyone inside and outside his unit.

Private Burke will make himself a pariah within the military. And that is never a good thing. He will be pissed off for being ordered to do something he does not want to do but his mental anguish will be less than what it would be if he was allowed to do what he wants.

All that said, I have a question. How can Private Burke be tied to putting the scorpion inside Private Goldstein's boot? Did someone see him but the scorpion in the boot? Did he special order the scorpion to be delivered where he was stationed? If so, that is a paper trail connecting Private Burke to the scorpion.

If not, scorpions would likely be indigenous to that area. One could have crawled into the barracks and into Private Goldstein's boot. It has happened in real life many times, inside and outside the military. Plausible deniability would be extremely high.
 

Rockport

AmberBeer
Messages
42,171
Reaction score
41,923
Note: I did not serve in the military. If I get some military terms or practice wrong, I request that you cut me some slack.

You're in command of a small unit abroad that must engage a dangerous enemy. For the most part you're happy with the troops under your command. They work hard, they're loyal, and they promptly obey your orders.

However, there's one soldier who concerns you, Private Burke. One day you overhear him talking. He says he hates Private Goldstein, and that he knew him in high school, and that Goldstein had stolen his girlfriend. He describes Goldstein with several derogatory slurs and says he hopes he gets blown up by an enemy's IED and then dies a horrible, painful, slow death. He then laughs, and says he put a dangerous scorpion in Private Goldstein's boot.

So you have the barracks inspected, and it turns out to be true. A scorpion is indeed in Private Goldstein's boot. It's a type of scorpion that would not have killed a person, but it would have seriously injured him and made him sick for several days. You have that danger eradicated, and then you call Private Burke into your office to reprimand him. You order him to no longer harass Private Goldstein. You order him to do a bunch of extra work, that's dirty, extremely difficult, and very undesirable. You tell him that Private Goldberg is his comrade in arms, and that he is to put any personal feelings aside and to work with him just like he would any other soldier. You tell him if he ever pulls any such stunt like that again, he'll be court martialed.

Private Burke obeys all your orders. He not only does all of the dirty work you assigned to him, he does a great job at it. From then on, he treats Private Goldstein with respect. There are no more incidents.

However, one day, Private Goldstein is hit by enemy fire and is taken to the medical unit. He's lost a lot of blood and needs a transfusion, or he'll die. His blood type is AB negative, which is the rarest type. A recent enemy bomb had destroyed all blood reserves, so the only chance to save him is from a transfusion from another soldier. Luckily, there is one other soldier whose type is AB negative: Private Burke. So the doctor calls him in and asks him to give the transfusion. Burke refuses. He says that Private Goldstein is the scumbag who stole the love of his life from him, Emily, and he'll never forgive him, and will therefore not consent to the transfusion. The doctor emphasizes that he'll die without it, and Private Burke simply shrugs his shoulders and says, “Then he'll die.” He says that, even if he's ordered to, he won't comply. They'll have to physically restrain him and force him to do it. He says, “Goldberg is a worthless piece of crap who deserves to die.”

You're made aware of the situation. You could order Private Burke to give the transfusion, though that would violate his right to bodily autonomy, and is an order which he will not obey. It would be an order to give up his blood without his consent. However, it would save Private Goldberg's life.

Do you order him to do the transfusion against his consent? The order will mean that you also have to order other soldiers to physically restrain him in order to force him to do it against his will.

Do you have him physically forced against his will to do the transfusion?
You can’t order him to give blood, but you can take him out back and “encourage” him to.
 

Reverend Conehead

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,938
Reaction score
11,822
Answer: order the blood transfusion

It is for the good of both privates. It is one thing to refuse donating blood for a routine occasion, like a volunteer blood drive. It is another thing to not help save another soldier's life, who is in critical condition and can possibly recover with a blood transfusion.

Military life is not a civilian one. The you-know-what will hit the fan once Private Goldstein dies and word gets out that Private Burke could have helped save him. Then the tables will turn on Private Burke because the same animosity he directed at Private Goldstein will now be directed at him by everyone inside and outside his unit.

Private Burke will make himself a pariah within the military. And that is never a good thing. He will be pissed off for being ordered to do something he does not want to do but his mental anguish will be less than what it would be if he was allowed to do what he wants.

All that said, I have a question. How can Private Burke be tied to putting the scorpion inside Private Goldstein's boot? Did someone see him but the scorpion in the boot? Did he special order the scorpion to be delivered where he was stationed? If so, that is a paper trail connecting Private Burke to the scorpion.

If not, scorpions would likely be indigenous to that area. One could have crawled into the barracks and into Private Goldstein's boot. It has happened in real life many times, inside and outside the military. Plausible deniability would be extremely high.

Thanks for your explanations.

About the scorpion. We know that Private Burke did it because he was overheard telling another person that he did it. Thus, we're taking his word for it that he did it. It would be extremely unlikely that he made up a fake story about doing it and then a scorpion just happened to crawl into Goldstein's boot.
 

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
59,278
Reaction score
57,507
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Thanks for your explanations.

About the scorpion. We know that Private Burke did it because he was overheard telling another person that he did it. Thus, we're taking his word for it that he did it. It would be extremely unlikely that he made up a fake story about doing it and then a scorpion just happened to crawl into Goldstein's boot.
oh. okay. That makes sense.

If Private Burke is the type of person bold enough to blab, I have a feeling now there is zero need to order him to do anything. Everyone else in his unit will take care of it. All they need are a nurse, bottle of chloroform, hood, some zip ties, antiseptic, gauze, tape, an I.V. line, couple of blood bags, cooler and a bag of ice.

An anonymous blood donation would be dropped off soon afterwards, saving Private Goldstein. Later that day, Private Burke will claim he had been kidnapped but MPs will conclude he had been hallucinating from toxics seeping through scorpions' exoskeletons. He has been known for handling them before, which gives them all the information necessary to close the case.
 

dsturgeon

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,144
Reaction score
3,961
My blood and my organs are my own, they stay with me. I donated blood one time, and I regret it.
 

Reverend Conehead

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,938
Reaction score
11,822
oh. okay. That makes sense.

If Private Burke is the type of person bold enough to blab, I have a feeling now there is zero need to order him to do anything. Everyone else in his unit will take care of it. All they need are a nurse, bottle of chloroform, hood, some zip ties, antiseptic, gauze, tape, an I.V. line, couple of blood bags, cooler and a bag of ice.

An anonymous blood donation would be dropped off soon afterwards, saving Private Goldstein. Later that day, Private Burke will claim he had been kidnapped but MPs will conclude he had been hallucinating from toxics seeping through scorpions' exoskeletons. He has been known for handling them before, which gives them all the information necessary to close the case.

Okay, thanks for the explanation. What about possibly kicking Private Burke out of the military? He clearly lets his personal feelings get in the way of his duty as a soldier. He carries a grudge. I would think a man like that would end up getting people killed, either via his malicious nature or by just sheer stupidity. Could his CO get him a general discharge based on his being unfit for duty or his being incompetent? Or does his behavior even warrant a court martial and then a less-than-honorable discharge?
 

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
59,278
Reaction score
57,507
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Okay, thanks for the explanation. What about possibly kicking Private Burke out of the military? He clearly lets his personal feelings get in the way of his duty as a soldier. He carries a grudge. I would think a man like that would end up getting people killed, either via his malicious nature or by just sheer stupidity. Could his CO get him a general discharge based on his being unfit for duty or his being incompetent? Or does his behavior even warrant a court martial and then a less-than-honorable discharge?
Do not think anyone can get kicked out of the military for having a bad attitude, even to fellow service people.
 

Roadtrip635

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,020
Reaction score
26,954
Okay, thanks for the explanation. What about possibly kicking Private Burke out of the military? He clearly lets his personal feelings get in the way of his duty as a soldier. He carries a grudge. I would think a man like that would end up getting people killed, either via his malicious nature or by just sheer stupidity. Could his CO get him a general discharge based on his being unfit for duty or his being incompetent? Or does his behavior even warrant a court martial and then a less-than-honorable discharge?
The rest of the unit may take matters into their own hands and "adjust" his attitude. It is one thing to have a bad attitude, but being dangerous and be willing to allow a brother to die will not sit well.
 

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
59,278
Reaction score
57,507
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
So the scorpion in the boot stunt isn't enough to get kicked out?
The scorpion is the kind that will not kill, right? It was discovered before Private Goldstein was bitten, right?

Nope. Not enough to get kicked out. Premeditated murder or murder will get Private Burke sent to prison.

If he wants out, he can disobey orders constantly or be found emotionally unfit to carry out his duties. However, he is simply wanting Private Goldstein to suffer, right? He is not trying to voluntarily or involuntarily get kicked out, correct? The military tries retaining those who WANT to serve as much as possible.
 

Reverend Conehead

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,938
Reaction score
11,822
The scorpion is the kind that will not kill, right? It was discovered before Private Goldstein was bitten, right?

Nope. Not enough to get kicked out. Premeditated murder or murder will get Private Burke sent to prison.

If he wants out, he can disobey orders constantly or be found emotionally unfit to carry out his duties. However, he is simply wanting Private Goldstein to suffer, right? He is not trying to voluntarily or involuntarily get kicked out, correct? The military tries retaining those who WANT to serve as much as possible.

It was a non-lethal scorpion, but one with venom that's bad enough to make someone very sick. Pvt Burke isn't a murderer. He's just a vindictive and hateful prick who can't seem to let go of a grudge. You're probably right that his peers would attempt to adjust has attitude in an unofficial capacity. I have heard of what a blanket party is.
 
Top