More offensive line stuff...

[Risen Star]

All of PFF's silly numbers don't change what Seattle's "inferior" o-line did to our d-line. Just put the tape on of that 4th quarter to see how they physically broke our d-line.

Our o-line didn't do that to anyone, anyone, all season.

PFF is silly.

Truth. Just a complete waste of time.

I don't know why this requires research anyway. Our OL sucks. There's your cheat sheet.

 

[Risen Star]

You can always count on continuity and health being the rallying cry in May when the team doesn't adequately address their most critical need. But just like last year, it's just as wrong this year. These players lack talent. Familiarity and an impressive physical doesn't change that.

You will never have a quality OL with Livings, Bernadeau and Free on it. Thank God we replaced Costa but it's not enough to turn it around.

 

[Risen Star]

And Frederick being the real deal doesn't make the two Gs any good. That's the same reasoning on why stiffs like Torrin Tucker and Rob Petitti were going to be okay.

If you want better G play get better Gs.

 

[Staggerlee]

If you want better G play get better Gs.

I don't usually find myself agreeing with you often, but when it comes to the need to address the o-line, and this statement in particular, I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[xwalker]

Seattle had a 3,000 yard rookie passer (33 sacks given up) and a 1,600 yard rb and made noise in the playoffs. They must have done something right.

Yes, that rating for Seattle does not seem to fit.

Seattle
Total Yards Rushing 3rd
Yards per Rush Attempt 5th

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Yes, that rating for Seattle does not seem to fit.

Seattle
Total Yards Rushing 3rd
Yards per Rush Attempt 5th

Yeah I understand what you're saying.

You would think their rankings would be better. But even with their overall not-too-impressive rankings they've got a center who's about the best in the game and a very good tackle– so they have some pieces in place.

But their type of offense, just like Washington and others run, is going to make it easier IMO to pick up rushing yards because defenses are not ready for it.

I also wouldn't overlook the contribution by the Seattle's defense in making their offensive numbers look that much better. When you lead the league in fewest points allowed and you're way up there in turnovers generated... Well your offense is going to have some golden opportunities to sit on a lead and simply run, run, run. And just like we saw in the Dallas game, over time a defense is going to get tired.

At the half Seattle was up 13-7 and Lynch had 9 carries for 25 yards.

Dallas never scored again and Lynch ended up with 26 carries for 122 yards.

By the end of the 3rd quarter with Seattle up 20-7, all the offensive linemen had to do for Seattle was lean a little on their guy– and it was over.

 

[xwalker]

Yeah I understand what you're saying.

You would think their rankings would be better. But even with their overall not-too-impressive rankings they've got a center who's about the best in the game and a very good tackle– so they have some pieces in place.

The concept of an average might be a problem in this scenario. Is a Guard-Center combo of 50-1 better or worse than a combo of 25-25?

It might be good to list the standard deviation for each team:

x = individual player ranking

ave = (x1 + x2 + x3 + x4 + x5)/5

sum_of_diff_squared = (x1 - ave)^2 + (x2 - ave)^2 +(x3 - ave)^2 +(x4 - ave)^2 +(x5 - ave)^2

standard_deviation = square root (sum_of_diff_squared/5)

 

[Toruk_Makto]

You can always count on continuity and health being the rallying cry in May when the team doesn't adequately address their most critical need.

We invested two 1st round picks into the OL in the last 3 years and right before that we paid for the top tackle on the free agent market.

We now have competition virtually everywhere else on the interior of the line.

But hey never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

 

[Staggerlee]

We invested two 1st round picks into the OL in the last 3 years and right before that we paid for the top tackle on the free agent market.

We now have competition virtually everywhere else on the interior of the line.

But hey never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

Well one problem is that the "top tackle on the free agent market" that you and others keep pointing to is and has been playing like garbage. A move needs to be made, not bring him back at a reduced cost. As of right now we have quality, proven players at the LT spot, and another player who seems likely to be quality in Frederick. That's it. Parnell has upside and I'd actually prefer him to start over Free but we can't count on him just yet.

 

[CF74]

Well one problem is that the "top tackle on the free agent market" that you and others keep pointing to is and has been playing like garbage. A move needs to be made, not bring him back at a reduced cost. As of right now we have quality, proven players at the LT spot, and another player who seems likely to be quality in Frederick. That's it. Parnell has upside and I'd actually prefer him to start over Free but we can't count on him just yet.

If Free doesn't get it together I can see Parnell taking over by mid-season, or at least one would hope. Garrett has been churning it up, I can see Leary and maybe even Killer on the field before long as well...

 

[bayeslife]

Thanks for the post MW. I appreciate you grabbing stats into one thread (admittedly I am too lazy to go on PFF and look at everything myself).

Interesting stuff. Sad that people have to repeat themselves ad infinitum after every O-line thread you post.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Well one problem is that the "top tackle on the free agent market" that you and others keep pointing to is and has been playing like garbage. A move needs to be made, not bring him back at a reduced cost. As of right now we have quality, proven players at the LT spot, and another player who seems likely to be quality in Frederick. That's it. Parnell has upside and I'd actually prefer him to start over Free but we can't count on him just yet.

Well yes. The signing didn't work out. They don't always work out. Not here. Not in New England and not in Baltimore.

But anyone who is being serious about the matter cannot look at the last half decade and state with an ounce of credibility that we have not looked to rebuild this line using valuable resources for acquisition (player and coach) and in house development. It simply isn't true. And it speaks to an agenda.

It really is disgusting how people are completely ok with being right for the wrong reason and trying to claim some kind of high ground for it. Looking at you Risen.

And as an aside...why are people upset with the Free contract reduction? HIs guaranteed money was always his. Why not keep a good swing tackle and save money in the process? How is that a bad thing?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The concept of an average might be a problem in this scenario. Is a Guard-Center combo of 50-1 better or worse than a combo of 25-25?

It might be good to list the standard deviation for each team:

x = individual player ranking

ave = (x1 + x2 + x3 + x4 + x5)/5

sum_of_diff_squared = (x1 - ave)^2 + (x2 - ave)^2 +(x3 - ave)^2 +(x4 - ave)^2 +(x5 - ave)^2

standard_deviation = square root (sum_of_diff_squared/5)

You're right x. Average may not be the best way to grade. For me it was just a quick & dirty way of comparing.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Thanks for the post MW. I appreciate you grabbing stats into one thread (admittedly I am too lazy to go on PFF and look at everything myself).

Interesting stuff. Sad that people have to repeat themselves ad infinitum after every O-line thread you post.

Well if nothing else those people are consistent. :laugh2:

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Funny how the great center play by Max Unger in Seattle didn't do much for their guards.

I know how people here have taken this statement, but I take the opposite actually. How bad would their guards have been without Unger there. Unger's presence had to have helped them, yet they still scored low.

Just on the surface, it would appear that our guards were actually better than theirs and if you go one step farther and say our center play will be better this year....you could have reason for some optimism....course thats not allowed on this board.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Well if nothing else those people are consistent. :laugh2:

Constantly annoying.

 

[burmafrd]

Well yes. The signing didn't work out. They don't always work out. Not here. Not in New England and not in Baltimore.

But anyone who is being serious about the matter cannot look at the last half decade and state with an ounce of credibility that we have not looked to rebuild this line using valuable resources for acquisition (player and coach) and in house development. It simply isn't true. And it speaks to an agenda.

It really is disgusting how people are completely ok with being right for the wrong reason and trying to claim some kind of high ground for it. Looking at you Risen.

And as an aside...why are people upset with the Free contract reduction? HIs guaranteed money was always his. Why not keep a good swing tackle and save money in the process? How is that a bad thing?

so speaks doug free's agent

 

[xwalker]

And as an aside...why are people upset with the Free contract reduction? HIs guaranteed money was always his. Why not keep a good swing tackle and save money in the process? How is that a bad thing?

I think some people wanted Clabo over Free. They are both getting 3.5M this year. The guaranteed money that has already been paid to Free will hit the cap over the next 2 or 3 years with or without him on the team.

I'm in the group that thinks Parnell could beat out Free for the starting spot which would result in Free being a really expensive backup.

I would have signed a guy like Ryan Harris to compete with/backup Parnell. Harris has started 36 NFL games and re-signed with Houston for a 1-year, 715K deal.

It appears that the Cowboys preferred Free over Clabo for a couple of reasons. He now has a year of experience in Callahan's blocking scheme and he is an option to play Left Tackle or Right Tackle. Clabo is a RT only.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

so speaks doug free's agent

Cut him then? Cap be damned? It's like people don't even try to understand the situation.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I think some people wanted Clabo over Free. They are both getting 3.5M this year. The guaranteed money that has already been paid to Free will hit the cap over the next 2 or 3 years with or without him on the team.

I'm in the group that thinks Parnell could beat out Free for the starting spot which would result in Free being a really expensive backup.

I would have signed a guy like Ryan Harris to compete with/backup Parnell. Harris has started 36 NFL games and re-signed with Houston for a 1-year, 715K deal.

It appears that the Cowboys preferred Free over Clabo for a couple of reasons. He now has a year of experience in Callahan's blocking scheme and he is an option to play Left Tackle or Right Tackle. Clabo is a RT only.

I get the appeal of Clabo and Winston and Moore. They are bodies that are not Cowboys.

What I don't get is how everyone lambastes Jerry for bringing in aging vets (or hanging on to our aging vets too long)....but then turn around and want us to bring in...aging vets?

At some point you have to groom in house talent. And that isn't a process that happens overnight. But i'm cautiously optimistic about how much competition we are seeing not only on the line but in the secondary and on the D-line as well from some new faces.

But people are scared of uncertainty. I look at the last 3 drafts and am excited about how this team has chosen to draft. Getting good guys who love football who have all the measurables you could want.

These last 3 drafts are the cause of my optimism these days. 4 years ago and I honestly thought we were a franchise in free fall. Hard to say that today if you're being at all realistic.