More Patriots bending of rules...?

Phoenix

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...substitution-game/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs


Dungy: NFL needs to restrict New England’s substitution game
Posted by Mike Florio on January 23, 2015, 9:29 PM EST
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Lost amid the furor over #DeflateGate is New England’s newfound penchant for playing the ineligible-eligible receiver game. Whether it’s a player wearing an ineligible number reporting as an eligible receiver or a player wearing an eligible number reporting as an ineligible receiver, the Patriots have begun aggressively using the tactic in an obvious effort to confuse defenses regarding who will be running a pass route and who won’t be.

“The NFL is going to have to do something about the Patriots’ ineligible-eligible substitution game,” former NFL head coach and current NBC Sports analyst Tony Dungy told PFT by email on Friday. “It is nothing but an intent to deceive and they are doing it very well. They’re reporting so fast and going so quickly the defense can’t respond. In fact, the officials can’t keep up.”

Dungy believes the officials missed at least one foul with this maneuver during the postseason.

“In the Baltimore game, [Shane] Vereen reported as ineligible several times,” Dungy explained. “If he stays in the game he must report again and continue to be ineligible. He must come out of the game for one play or there has to be a time out for him to play as an eligible receiver. On the touchdown drive Vereen played one play as ineligible and then played the next play in an eligible position. There should have been a penalty.”
 

MrPeanutbutter

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Until it's illegal for them to do what they're doing, the Patriots not breaking the rules.

And that "no penalty called" thing is BS, because JJ Watt gets held on every play but no one calls that cheating.

Also, Tony Dungy is a piece of garbage.
 

Phoenix

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Are you telling me then that it is perfectly within the rules for a player to stay on the field for consecutive plays as first ineligible then eligible, such as the Patriots are doing?
 

Idgit

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Nothing to see here. If they're breaking rules, they should be penalized. It's not their fault if the refs aren't catching it.

This is just creatively pushing an envelope, which I'm all in favor of.
 

joseephuss

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Nothing to see here. If they're breaking rules, they should be penalized. It's not their fault if the refs aren't catching it.

This is just creatively pushing an envelope, which I'm all in favor of.

I agree. I can't find anything that says it is against the rules. At least not yet. Maybe next season it will be.
 

Sinister

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Nothing to see here. If they're breaking rules, they should be penalized. It's not their fault if the refs aren't catching it.

This is just creatively pushing an envelope, which I'm all in favor of.

It doesn't bother me that they are 'breaking rules' in this instance, but lets call it what it is. It is cheating.

The Patriots are operating on a very thin line. It is not only spygate. It is also the injury reports, the deflated balls, taking advantage of the substitution system in the NFL to confuse opponents.

What else are they doing? Where does it stop?

The link below examines the Patriots 'fumbling' issues or lack there of.
http://webcache.***BROKEN***/search?q=cache:http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932

Individual moments of pushing the envelope to gain an advantage I can understand, but wholesale squandering of the integrity of the game?
 

Nightman

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I agree. I can't find anything that says it is against the rules. At least not yet. Maybe next season it will be.

A player has to substitute out if they go from ineligible to eligible or the team has to take a TO. Either way they can't run the hurry up and the Defense has a right to make substitution. The refs can't keep up and have missed some violations and NE is doing it intentionally.
 

Phoenix

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No other team in the league is suspect to all of these things than the Patriots.

They truly are cheaters.
 

Rogah

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No other team in the league is suspect to all of these things than the Patriots.
That's because no one gives a turd about other teams.

The Vikings tamper with the football during a game by heating it (which is blatantly illegal) and no one cares.
The Browns text messages from the upstairs to the sidelines during games (which is blatantly illegal) and no one cares.
The Commanders tamper with players under contract for other teams (which is blatantly illegal) and no one cares.
The Broncos win 2 Super Bowls while deliberately violating salary cap rules and no one cares
The Jets owner tampers with a player under contract for another team and no one cares.

Then the Patriots have deflated footballs with no real evidence of any wrong doing and it literally makes national headlines.
 

burmafrd

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That's because no one gives a turd about other teams.

The Vikings tamper with the football during a game by heating it (which is blatantly illegal) and no one cares.
The Browns text messages from the upstairs to the sidelines during games (which is blatantly illegal) and no one cares.
The Commanders tamper with players under contract for other teams (which is blatantly illegal) and no one cares.
The Broncos win 2 Super Bowls while deliberately violating salary cap rules and no one cares
The Jets owner tampers with a player under contract for another team and no one cares.

Then the Patriots have deflated footballs with no real evidence of any wrong doing and it literally makes national headlines.

do you ever get tired of slurping the Patriots?
 

Nightman

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That's because no one gives a turd about other teams.

The Vikings tamper with the football during a game by heating it (which is blatantly illegal) and no one cares.
The Browns text messages from the upstairs to the sidelines during games (which is blatantly illegal) and no one cares.
The Commanders tamper with players under contract for other teams (which is blatantly illegal) and no one cares.
The Broncos win 2 Super Bowls while deliberately violating salary cap rules and no one cares
The Jets owner tampers with a player under contract for another team and no one cares.

Then the Patriots have deflated footballs with no real evidence of any wrong doing and it literally makes national headlines.

If no one cares then how do you know about them? It seems someone wrote stories about them. This story is less than a week old and you want it to just go away. The Pats have already done 3 press conferences on their own, so there is something there.

Based on what people know about Belichick and the Pats it doesn't look good. Fans are allowed to be biased and rush to judgements. That is part of being a fan. You hate the other guys, especially the ones that are sore losers and classless winners.
 

Rogah

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If no one cares then how do you know about them?
Because I follow football - college and pro - quite obsessively. (Although I admit I didn't know about the Vikings tampering with the balls until this past week.)
The Pats have already done 3 press conferences on their own, so there is something there.
The NFL has nothing and the Patriots know it.
 

Nightman

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Because I follow football - college and pro - quite obsessively. (Although I admit I didn't know about the Vikings tampering with the balls until this past week.)
The NFL has nothing and the Patriots know it.

You obviously have a soft spot for the Pats. That is fine, it is what makes us fans. But it also clouds our judgement and blinds us to obvious truths. The Pats intentionally deflated or under-inflatedtheir footballs for the Championship game. They were caught red-handed. They have been caught cheating before and are always pushing the limits of what is legal. Whether it's injury reporting, formations, communications, etc... They don't get the benefit of the doubt any more. Belichick wants to play the outlaw and the evil genius, well then this is what comes with the territory.

It didn't help them win that game, but the intention was to bend the rules to make Brady more comfortable. They have also been accused of doing this in previous games, that is why this sting even took place. Trying to shout it down before the investigation even takes place is a common tactic of the guilty. Try to win the battle of public opinion and that is all that matters.The truth won't matter after the SB as much. But when the View and the Nightly News are talking about the Pats and cheating that is not good for the brand and that is the reason for all the press conferences. Trying to control the narrative. Now people are arguing about physics and Kelvins and psi's and statistics that can be made to look any way you want them to. Experts on both sides will come to completely different conclusions with the same facts, which leads to reasonable doubt.
 

Staubacher

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It's big news when a team cheated on the way to 3 Super Bowls and they are caught cheating again en route to another one. You can whine that it's not big news when a bad team cheats but it doesn't change the fact the Belichick and the Patriots have a history of cheating.

There is a stigma that lingers when one devotes so much time to cheating and they do it again later on. You can cry about it but hey it goes with the territory for cheaters
That's because no one gives a turd about other teams.

The Vikings tamper with the football during a game by heating it (which is blatantly illegal) and no one cares.
The Browns text messages from the upstairs to the sidelines during games (which is blatantly illegal) and no one cares.
The Commanders tamper with players under contract for other teams (which is blatantly illegal) and no one cares.
The Broncos win 2 Super Bowls while deliberately violating salary cap rules and no one cares
The Jets owner tampers with a player under contract for another team and no one cares.

Then the Patriots have deflated footballs with no real evidence of any wrong doing and it literally makes national headlines.
 

Sinister

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That's because no one gives a turd about other teams.

The Vikings tamper with the football during a game by heating it (which is blatantly illegal) and no one cares.
The Browns text messages from the upstairs to the sidelines during games (which is blatantly illegal) and no one cares.
The Commanders tamper with players under contract for other teams (which is blatantly illegal) and no one cares.
The Broncos win 2 Super Bowls while deliberately violating salary cap rules and no one cares
The Jets owner tampers with a player under contract for another team and no one cares.

Then the Patriots have deflated footballs with no real evidence of any wrong doing and it literally makes national headlines.

Saying other people did it also does not excuse your own bad behavior. I think we learned that lesson in kindergarten.
 

Rogah

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You obviously have a soft spot for the Pats. That is fine, it is what makes us fans. But it also clouds our judgement and blinds us to obvious truths. The Pats intentionally deflated or under-inflatedtheir footballs for the Championship game. They were caught red-handed.
You don't know this. You're basing your opinion on facts that haven't been proven yet.

But you know what? I'll play along. I'll say sure, they are guilty and did it on purpose. So please let me ask you the same question that everyone refuses to answer: First offense for this infraction is a letter of warning. What should the 2nd offense be?
It didn't help them win that game, but the intention was to bend the rules to make Brady more comfortable. They have also been accused of doing this in previous games, that is why this sting even took place. Trying to shout it down before the investigation even takes place is a common tactic of the guilty. Try to win the battle of public opinion and that is all that matters.The truth won't matter after the SB as much. But when the View and the Nightly News are talking about the Pats and cheating that is not good for the brand and that is the reason for all the press conferences. Trying to control the narrative. Now people are arguing about physics and Kelvins and psi's and statistics that can be made to look any way you want them to. Experts on both sides will come to completely different conclusions with the same facts, which leads to reasonable doubt.
Well in this country, reasonable doubt means not guilty.
 

Rogah

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Saying other people did it also does not excuse your own bad behavior. I think we learned that lesson in kindergarten.
True, but saying other people did it and got nothing more than a letter of warning supports the notion that they probably should be facing a 1 year suspension for coach and QB, loss of 1st round draft pick, $1 million fine.

It also supports the notion that no one would care about any of this if it was any other team beyond New England.
 

irishline

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You don't know this. You're basing your opinion on facts that haven't been proven yet.

Fact of the matter is it's looking more and more like the NFL has zero evidence against the Patriots... The NFL is coming to the realization that the Patriots did nothing wrong but they don't know how to handle it since...

pot-kettle.jpg
 
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