Moss-Coles Trade

[jem88]

Any thoughts on this now? Many pundits at the time saw it as a great trade for the Jets but sentiment seems to be swinging the other way now. I love Santana Moss and would love to have him here. There are very few reasons for the Cowboys to be jealous of the Skins; Moss is one of them.

 

[Yeagermeister]

The trade might be a little more even if the Jets had a qb.

 

[jksmith269]

Any thoughts on this now? Many pundits at the time saw it as a great trade for the Jets but sentiment seems to be swinging the other way now. I love Santana Moss and would love to have him here. There are very few reasons for the Cowboys to be jealous of the Skins; Moss is one of them.

I disagree with you. The Jets got the better end of the deal. They traded moss who wasn't much of a bump on their cap for Coles who had good chemistry with Chad. The skins took a huge cap hit for the trade then signed Moss to a long term deal with a large SB as well.

Moss for the most part is invisable most of the game until you don't have a choice but throw downfield and he's been lucky that at that point most teams are playing off him. If you look when teams are playing him tight he's not nearly as effictive. Where is he at the start ofthe game the entire first half most of his catches I'd say come in late. Our receivers do it all 4 quarters so why should we be jealous of a part time player IMO?

 

[Skins26]

Moss for the most part is invisable most of the game until you don't have a choice but throw downfield and he's been lucky that at that point most teams are playing off him. If you look when teams are playing him tight he's not nearly as effictive. Where is he at the start ofthe game the entire first half most of his catches I'd say come in late. Our receivers do it all 4 quarters so why should we be jealous of a part time player IMO?

lmao

You don't watch much football do you? That is the biggest load of crap I have ever seen on this board. You should be ashamed of yourself.
In every game he has been used throughout the game. Not once has he been a "part time player".
As he and Brunell have gotten more comfortable, his catches have gone up.
Week:
1 - only 4 rec (but still close to 100 yards - and our QB situation wasn't like it is today)
2 - 5 rec (we all know what happened that game)
4 - 6 rec
5 - 8 rec
6 - 10 rec

Edit: How can you in your right mind say the Jets got anywhere close to a good deal in this?
1. The Jets had to get Coles' big salary he had with us, so you saying they got a better deal better deal salary cap wise is...crap.
2. He may have had good chemistry with Chad in the past, but there was no evidence of it this year
3. Coles refuses to get much needed (but potentially career hurting) surgery and it has really affected his play.
4. The numbers speak for themselves. Moss is the #1 reciever in the NFL right now (Holt has had an extra game) and is on pace to break NFL records.

 

[jem88]

lmao

You don't watch much football do you? That is the biggest load of crap I have ever seen on this board. You should be ashamed of yourself.
In every game he has been used throughout the game. Not once has he been a "part time player".
As he and Brunell have gotten more comfortable, his catches have gone up.
Week:
1 - only 4 rec (but still close to 100 yards - and our QB situation wasn't like it is today)
2 - 5 rec (we all know what happened that game)
4 - 6 rec
5 - 8 rec
6 - 10 rec

Edit: How can you in your right mind say the Jets got anywhere close to a good deal in this?
1. The Jets had to get Coles' big salary he had with us, so you saying they got a better deal better deal salary cap wise is...crap.
2. He may have had good chemistry with Chad in the past, but there was no evidence of it this year
3. Coles refuses to get much needed (but potentially career hurting) surgery and it has really affected his play.
4. The numbers speak for themselves. Moss is the #1 reciever in the NFL right now (Holt has had an extra game) and is on pace to break NFL records.

Hate to agree with a Skins fan but you're right. The numbers speak for themselves. This part-time WR nonsense is a joke. Terry Glenn routinely goes a few drives without doing anything and then pops up with a big catch, but I'll take that anyday. Production is production. Furthermore, it's not like Moss is picking up the garbage time yards, he's producing in the clutch. As Cowboys fans, we should realize that better than anyone. Shame on you JK, shame!!

 

[jem88]

It appears you've only really used the Dallas game as your measuring stick when you mentioned that he only produces at the end of games. Or is scoring 2 touchdowns last week (one in the 2nd and the other in the 3rd quarter) not considered production?

 

[dargonking999]

The real question to me on Moss, will be were is he in December, Chad is not a home run hitter and now he's not playing. Burnell can throw the ball deep, but where will he be at the end of the season. My only knock on Brunell is how long can he keep up passing like this? And how long will Moss be open, once teams starting rolling double coverage over to Moss, will he put up big numbers then?

 

[dbair1967]

lmao

1. The Jets had to get Coles' big salary he had with us, so you saying they got a better deal better deal salary cap wise is...crap.
2
4. The numbers speak for themselves. Moss is the #1 reciever in the NFL right now (Holt has had an extra game) and is on pace to break NFL records.

Moss is having a good yr, but you guys gave up a 1st rd pick and a ton in signing bonus to get Coles originally right? you had to eat alot of signing bonus when you traded him back to the Jets right?

and while Moss is having a good yr right now, mark my words...he wont be breaking any NFL records...he just isnt that type of WR

David

 

[jem88]

Moss is having a good yr, but you guys gave up a 1st rd pick and a ton in signing bonus to get Coles originally right? you had to eat alot of signing bonus when you traded him back to the Jets right?

and while Moss is having a good yr right now, mark my words...he wont be breaking any NFL records...he just isnt that type of WR

David

I think he'll be a Terry Glenn level receiver for his career. Not breaking records, but certainly one to be reckoned with. The original trade for Coles was not a good one. There are very few receivers I'd give up a 1st round pick for (Moss, Holt, Chad Johnson, maybe Roy Williams, Andre Johnson.) The fact we got Glenn so cheaply makes the Skins folly even more acute.

 

[Skins26]

Moss is having a good yr, but you guys gave up a 1st rd pick and a ton in signing bonus to get Coles originally right? you had to eat alot of signing bonus when you traded him back to the Jets right?

and while Moss is having a good yr right now, mark my words...he wont be breaking any NFL records...he just isnt that type of WR

David

At the time we got Coles, it was worth it. We needed a WR like him, and our first draft pick would have likely been a WR...so our choices were go with a rookie or go with an up and coming pro bowler (he went to the pro bowl his first year here) who's coming off a couple very good seasons. We went with Coles.
We did take a big cap hit this year. But for what we got in return with Moss...so far it's been worth it.
And yeah I know, he's more than likely not going to break any NFL records. I was saying that because jk seems to think the Jets got the better deal. But Coles is not having a good year while Moss is on pace to break records. How can you say the Jets got the better deal? (even if the Jets had a QB, Coles still has his toe to worry about and I can pretty much guarentee you he wouldn't be having a better year than Moss)

My only knock on Brunell is how long can he keep up passing like this? And how long will Moss be open, once teams starting rolling double coverage over to Moss, will he put up big numbers then?

lol, you think teams don't know he's our main threat already?
Why would they just now start doubling him?
He has been getting double coverage. HELLO! The two TDs he had against you all were in double coverage for crying out loud! lol
Anyway, with that it's pick your poison.
If you start backing off (and rolling coverage) to account for Moss, then things will just start opening up more for Portis, Patten, and Cooley. All of which have game changing/breaking ability.

 

[Skins26]

I think he'll be a Terry Glenn level receiver for his career. Not breaking records, but certainly one to be reckoned with. The original trade for Coles was not a good one. There are very few receivers I'd give up a 1st round pick for (Moss, Holt, Chad Johnson, maybe Roy Williams, Andre Johnson.) The fact we got Glenn so cheaply makes the Skins folly even more acute.

You know I will say this about Glenn, he has really surprised me this year. I didn't know he still had it in him.

I have him on one of my fantasy teams and I must say...I'm please

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Lav's toe is no issue whatsover. It was a minor injury blown all out of proportion by Skins fans and supporters trying desperately to find a hole in Lav's game. His receptions last year were outstanding, his YAC a product of the system.

Moss will outperform him this year because of one thing and one thing only.

The quarterback factor, ie, Penny's injury and Vinny's age.

You get what you get with Santana - downfield speed and potential game breaking plays, then a long disappearing act. And an injury. Not a great route runner, loses concentration, and makes Terry Glenn look like King Kong.

Lav Coles got a thirteen million dollar signing bonus, then million which was still owed when he announced he would no longer play for the skins. Snyder had to pay that off, which is why he totally lost it and thraetened Lav he woukd be 'watching this season on wide screen tv' and that Lil Napoleon would "ruin him".

And the Jets got the number one pick plus Lav back. Danny got dissed and a ten million dollar bill, AND Moss and Rosenhaus forced the restructured contact the Jets refused to redo.

You got screwed. Lav is a better receiver than Moss, despite Santana's early season success.

 

[jksmith269]

lmao

You don't watch much football do you? That is the biggest load of crap I have ever seen on this board. You should be ashamed of yourself.
In every game he has been used throughout the game. Not once has he been a "part time player".
As he and Brunell have gotten more comfortable, his catches have gone up.
Week:
1 - only 4 rec (but still close to 100 yards - and our QB situation wasn't like it is today)
2 - 5 rec (we all know what happened that game)
4 - 6 rec
5 - 8 rec
6 - 10 rec

Edit: How can you in your right mind say the Jets got anywhere close to a good deal in this?
1. The Jets had to get Coles' big salary he had with us, so you saying they got a better deal better deal salary cap wise is...crap.
2. He may have had good chemistry with Chad in the past, but there was no evidence of it this year
3. Coles refuses to get much needed (but potentially career hurting) surgery and it has really affected his play.
4. The numbers speak for themselves. Moss is the #1 reciever in the NFL right now (Holt has had an extra game) and is on pace to break NFL records.

The only game I watched Moss in was against us. So what he has done since then your right I can't really comment on. Moss has 33 catches for 631 yards and 4 TD's he has a good average, But it appears to me Moss is a deep threat first he's not really a possession receiver Like Coles can be. Again this is from limited time I've seen him play.

As for Moss Being the Number one receiver well he is 10 in Receptions, 2nd in yards, 11th in TD's I say he's one of the higher rated WR's this year But I would rather have a Receiver willing to go over the middle and give me those 5 yard catches than someone only good for deep passes.

Before Chad got hurt he and Coles seemed to be hooking up fairly often and they looked good together. as for Coles needing surgery I agree with you on that.

As for salary coles has a large salary but he leaves the Skins with a large cap hit this year, and next year plus the money you have to pay Moss. The Jets didn't have the same kind of cap hit for trading Moss, and could deal Coles next year if they wanted with out a cap hit since the skins took all his SB hit.

So I concede right now Moss is playing better than Coles but the Skins got screwed in the Cap by Coles and the Jets got the better end of that part. Now if Chad where healthy who know's what kind of season Coles would be having.

 

[jem88]

Lav's toe is no issue whatsover. It was a minor injury blown all out of proportion by Skins fans and supporters trying desperately to find a hole in Lav's game. His receptions last year were outstanding, his YAC a product of the system.

Moss will outperform him this year because of one thing and one thing only.

The quarterback factor, ie, Penny's injury and Vinny's age.

You get what you get with Santana - downfield speed and potential game breaking plays, then a long disappearing act. And an injury. Not a great route runner, loses concentration, and makes Terry Glenn look like King Kong.

Lav Coles got a thirteen million dollar signing bonus, then million which was still owed when he announced he would no longer play for the skins. Snyder had to pay that off, which is why he totally lost it and thraetened Lav he woukd be 'watching this season on wide screen tv' and that Lil Napoleon would "ruin him".

And the Jets got the number one pick plus Lav back. Danny got dissed and a ten million dollar bill, AND Moss and Rosenhaus forced the restructured contact the Jets refused to redo.

You got screwed. Lav is a better receiver than Moss, despite Santana's early season success.

Sorry LTN, but I'll take your blanket statements with a grain of salt. Coles' toe injury has been mentioned in several forums, not just among bitter Skins fans. Moss has also had injury problems but to say he makes Glenn (for whom you seem to have a slightly bizarre blind loyalty) look like 'King Kong' is a bit much. I also think you need to come up with something a bit more substantive than 'Lav is a better receiver than Moss'. Moss definately needs to work on his consistency but he's on route to posting his 2nd 1000 yard season in five years, which considering the washout that was his rookie year and the uncertain NY and Washington QB situations, is impressive (and would put him on par with Glenn, who is on the verge of posting his 3rd 1000 yard season.) Remember, it wasn't until his 4th year that Michael Irvin broke out. Straight up, I would definately take Moss over Coles. I'm not ready to put him in my top 10 WRs yet, but if he keeps it up (admittedly a sizeable 'if') then the Skins definately made a good trade.

 

[jem88]

Who did the Jets take with the 1st round pick they received for Coles a few years ago? I believe it was packaged to trade up for Dewayne Robertson, no? I ask this because it seems a shame that the Jets couldn't have kept both Coles and Moss. That would have been a very dynamic tandem.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

I really enjoywatching Santana Moss play ..but then, I also enjoy watching Coles play. The biggest difference that I see is that the Skins has made Moss a significant part of their game plan. I'm not sure what the J-E-T-S Jets, Jets, Jets, are trying to do with Coles or what they would Like to do with Coles, but they aren't doing with Coles!

Vinny just arrived, so maybe it still a little early for the chemicals between he and Coles to have mixed, perhaps they are still working on their rythmn.

We'll see!

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

The financial and picks of the whole coles/moss thing to the side.

Moss has been a better producer for them.

One thing to take into account is that Brunell is playing better then he was last year and the O-Line is playing better as well.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

One thing to take into account is that Brunell is playing better then he was last year and the O-Line is playing better as well.

Sure, I agree with you. Also, Moss has a better surrounding cast of players on the offensive side of the ball. I'm sayIng that the Jets are more one-dimensional. The Skins have Portis and other Rbs to open up the passing game and keep the secondary honest.

 

[Skins26]

Wow, am I reading this stuff correctly?

Lav's toe is no issue whatsover. It was a minor injury blown all out of proportion by Skins fans and supporters trying desperately to find a hole in Lav's game. His receptions last year were outstanding, his YAC a product of the system.

I WISH his toe issue was only a minor blown out of proportion injury. I loved Coles when he was here (and healthy). He was a monster!
....you know what....maybe it is only a minor injury. If that's the case, I really want to know what's wrong with him then...

His YAC a product of the system?
lol
Then why does Moss in the same system have a very high YAC?

Moss will outperform him this year because of one thing and one thing only.

The quarterback factor, ie, Penny's injury and Vinny's age.

Dude, we have a 35 year old QB who was absolutely dreadful last year....

You get what you get with Santana - downfield speed and potential game breaking plays, then a long disappearing act. And an injury. Not a great route runner, loses concentration, and makes Terry Glenn look like King Kong.

You say all this crap, but...at the end of the day you have NO EVIDENCE whatsoever to back it up. NONE.
If you can provide one piece of evidence to back any of this crap up, I'll....I don't know....become a Cowboys fan or something.

Lav is a better receiver than Moss, despite Santana's early season success.

Talk is cheap buddy. You have to provide evidence.


jk:

As for Moss Being the Number one receiver well he is 10 in Receptions, 2nd in yards, 11th in TD's I say he's one of the higher rated WR's this year But I would rather have a Receiver willing to go over the middle and give me those 5 yard catches than someone only good for deep passes.

You're arguing for the sake of arguing aren't you?
lmao!!
You would rather have a WR who will give you 5 yards than a reciever who will give you 20+ and TDs?
You're kidding right?

btw, Moss isn't the only WR on our team. We have other WRs, TEs, RBs, and HBs for those 5 yard catches. Why would we use Moss for a 5 yard catch when he can get 30?

 

[Wheat]

Coles DID have a toe injury...and still does. The drop off after his 1st few games in Washington was very easy to see.

He was afraid surgery would end his career like it did for that WR in Miami a few years back.

He wasn't getting open in DC, even though he fought for ever catch.

However, Santana had another 100 yards and a TD today.

I'll take it.