My only problem with Vanderjagt...

[johnnycomelately]

I've said this before (probably say it again during the season), but I don't think kicking will be a "major" issue like it was last year. Last year we had a team groomed to keep the games close and try to steal a win late. This team is going to blow teams out or need to score TDs late. Kicking will not be a factor. Ironic isn't it? JMHO

That is a pretty ridiculous statement. Unless you have a pretty accurate crystal ball, there is no telling how games will play out. I think Indy fans would have said that the Colts are "groomed" to "blow teams out" yet their playoffs ended on a missed field goal.

But kicking is always important. The reliability of field goal kicking can also be a factor in what eventually leads to a blowout instead of a close game as well because the reliability of kicking long field goals also changes the way you call plays as well. EXAMPLE: If you have the ball and the line of scrimmage would result in a 42 yard attempt and its 3rd and 8. Your confidence in your kicker to hit the 42 yarder consistently can produce a pass play on 3rd that results in a first down and eventually a touchdown. If you feel you need to get the ball closer to give your kicker a chance, you call a run play that produce 4 yards and field goal attempt. So your kicker can produce 6 points rather than just 3 without even stepping onto the field.

Also, I do believe that the Cowboys will have potential to put a thumping on alot of teams, but to win a championship you have to be able to win in all ways including 4th Q field goals.

 

[Novacek84]

I saw Vanderjagt hit a 47-yard game winner in a snowstorm on a Sunday night in Denver a few years back so I'm not worried about him outdoors. I am worried about him in the postseason however, that's when he has really come up small. Still, you have to get to the postseason first and if we had an effective kicker last year we would have made the playoffs. I'll take my chances with this guy because I can't take anymore days of Cortez, Cundiff, etc. I'll be interested to see how much less he signs for as compared to Vinatieri as he (Adam) would have been my first choice. I would assume Suisham will be kept for kickoffs.

 

[Ashwynn]

Man, you guys are like "I want a kicker NOW!!!!!" SO Jones goes out and gets you one. Now your like "Ah man, its only vanderwhatshisname, why not Adam vwhatshisname" Who the hell cares. All kickers are gunna miss 2 of every 10 thats jsut the way it is. You just got a kicker, one of the best and you guys are still not happy.

Maybe we shoulda traded for Janakowski. Seems you guys only want the dregs of the NFL in Dallas now, First Terrell, now this.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

luckily the superbowl is played in a dome.

 

[Hoov]

again, please.. whats the deal with him being a drunk or problematic person ? i'm just curious, never heard anything about him off the field.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

When not indoors, the guy can barely get it their from over 40-45 yards out. Not aying there will be many kicks from farther than that, but if we ever need a 52 yarder to win, we are screwed. At least Cundiff or Cortez can get it there from 50.

My problem with VanderShanks is....

1. He missed FG in 2004 that would have given the Colts HFA. Instead they had to travel to NE and lost.
2. He could have sent the game into overtime and SEVERELY shanked that kick against Stealers.
3. DO WE WANT TO FILL THIS SPACE AT #3???

I dont.

 

[Woods]

again, please.. whats the deal with him being a drunk or problematic person ? i'm just curious, never heard anything about him off the field.

From what I remember, after the post-season ended, and the Colts lost again, Vandy was doing a radio interview in Canada.

Vandy basically blurted out something like Payton Manning couldn't get the job done/didn't have what it took to get the win.

I don't remember exactly what Vandy said, but he basically said a negative statement (or two) about Manning.

Of course, Manning got very upset. I still remember when they interviewed Manning at the Pro Bowl, and you could tell he was still upset.

In the end, for the sake of "team chemistry", Vandy had to apologize. I think the excuse was that he got "liquered-up" and didn't mean to say what he said, and that Vandy was just upset the team lost.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

From what I remember, after the post-season ended, and the Colts lost again, Vandy was doing a radio interview in Canada.

Vandy basically blurted out something like Payton Manning couldn't get the job done/didn't have what it took to get the win.

I don't remember exactly what Vandy said, but he basically said a negative statement (or two) about Manning.

Of course, Manning got very upset. I still remember when they interviewed Manning at the Pro Bowl, and you could tell he was still upset.

In the end, for the sake of "team chemistry", Vandy had to apologize. I think the excuse was that he got "liquered-up" and didn't mean to say what he said, and that Vandy was just upset the team lost.

Yes that was what happened and Manning called him the "idiot kicker" during that interview you mentioned.

 

[Woods]

From what I remember, after the post-season ended, and the Colts lost again, Vandy was doing a radio interview in Canada.

Vandy basically blurted out something like Payton Manning couldn't get the job done/didn't have what it took to get the win.

I don't remember exactly what Vandy said, but he basically said a negative statement (or two) about Manning.

Of course, Manning got very upset. I still remember when they interviewed Manning at the Pro Bowl, and you could tell he was still upset.

In the end, for the sake of "team chemistry", Vandy had to apologize. I think the excuse was that he got "liquered-up" and didn't mean to say what he said, and that Vandy was just upset the team lost.

By the way, this is how I remember the course of events. If someone has a better memory of what happened, please edit my response.

But basically, in the end, Vandy was asked to apologize to Manning and the organization for saying Manning choked. The reason Vandy gave was that he had too much to drink.

 

[tyke1doe]

When not indoors, the guy can barely get it their from over 40-45 yards out. Not aying there will be many kicks from farther than that, but if we ever need a 52 yarder to win, we are screwed. At least Cundiff or Cortez can get it there from 50.

Getting it there and making it are two different things.

This aint like pitching horseshoes or dropping atom bombs.

 

[Woods]

Yes that was what happened and Manning called him the "idiot kicker" during that interview you mentioned.

The funny thing is that maybe Vandy was correct about Manning? :laugh2:

 

[Torn_ACL]

Vanderjaqt is the most accurate kicker in NFL History.


NEXT QUESTION!



:spanking:

Am I the only one who thinks that by the time Vanderjagt is done with the Cowboys, he WON'T be the most accurate kicker of all time?

 

[TheHustler]

Am I the only one who thinks that by the time Vanderjagt is done with the Cowboys, he WON'T be the most accurate kicker of all time?

Delete your post! Hurry! You're going to jinx it!

 

[juice28]

That is a pretty ridiculous statement. Unless you have a pretty accurate crystal ball, there is no telling how games will play out. I think Indy fans would have said that the Colts are "groomed" to "blow teams out" yet their playoffs ended on a missed field goal.

But kicking is always important. The reliability of field goal kicking can also be a factor in what eventually leads to a blowout instead of a close game as well because the reliability of kicking long field goals also changes the way you call plays as well. EXAMPLE: If you have the ball and the line of scrimmage would result in a 42 yard attempt and its 3rd and 8. Your confidence in your kicker to hit the 42 yarder consistently can produce a pass play on 3rd that results in a first down and eventually a touchdown. If you feel you need to get the ball closer to give your kicker a chance, you call a run play that produce 4 yards and field goal attempt. So your kicker can produce 6 points rather than just 3 without even stepping onto the field.

Also, I do believe that the Cowboys will have potential to put a thumping on alot of teams, but to win a championship you have to be able to win in all ways including 4th Q field goals.

That was a pretty ridiculous comeback if you ask me. You totally missed my point. We need a good FG Kicker. I predict we need a better than average kicker, but VJ will definitely cost more than he's going to be worth next year. BOOK IT! But don't mind me.
BTW, you said the Colt's playoffs ended on a field goal kick....but you're willing to OVERSPEND for the guy who missed it. What are you really talking about?

 

[DLCassidy]

That was a pretty ridiculous comeback if you ask me. You totally missed my point. We need a good FG Kicker. I predict we need a better than average kicker, but VJ will definitely cost more than he's going to be worth next year. BOOK IT! But don't mind me.
BTW, you said the Colt's playoffs ended on a field goal kick....but you're willing to OVERSPEND for the guy who missed it. What are you really talking about?

I swear to God some people could win the Power Ball and beotch about their tax issues. You don't like Vandy, fine but please tell us who we should sign instead. And don't list kickers that are either already signed or are not available. And exactly how much is three more wins worth? THAT's what having MV on our team last year would have likely meant. We missed 5 kicks under 40 yards last year. MV has missed 6 in 9 years between 30-39. It boggles my mind that we could have the parade of clowns we had last year at kicker and there would be anyone not thrilled to have what is inarguably a huge upgrade. And at 14m+ under the cap why quibble about 500k one way or the other?

 

[juice28]

I swear to God some people could win the Power Ball and beotch about their tax issues. You don't like Vandy, fine but please tell us who we should sign instead. And don't list kickers that are either already signed or are not available. And exactly how much is three more wins worth? THAT's what having MV on our team last year would have likely meant. We missed 5 kicks under 40 yards last year. MV has missed 6 in 9 years between 30-39. It boggles my mind that we could have the parade of clowns we had last year at kicker and there would be anyone not thrilled to have what is inarguably a huge upgrade. And at 14m+ under the cap why quibble about 500k one way or the other?

First of all, I actually like Vandy, but no "kicker" deserves big time contracts. Or to be drafted in the first round either. Kickers shouldn't even make headlines IMO. But I understand we have a major issue with our kicking game. Call me a pessimist (or optimist, I don't know) but I don't share the same "buy a great all-time kicker at all cost" ideas as my brethren.

Do we have money to spend?...Yes. But let's not forget that we can use that money next year for some current players that we need. There's no rule that we have to spend every dollar in the offseason.
I understand that VJ is now a Cowboy and I welcome him with open arms. I guess I am just hoping last year was a fluke and FGs won't be an issue this season. O-line....now that's a different story.

 

[novadog]

When not indoors, the guy can barely get it their from over 40-45 yards out. Not aying there will be many kicks from farther than that, but if we ever need a 52 yarder to win, we are screwed. At least Cundiff or Cortez can get it there from 50.

I'm not worried in the least to be perfectly honest. Vanderjagt is a better kicker by leaps and bounds then Cundiff or Cortez every day of the week, rain snow, dome or otherwise. Hell he's a helluva lot more accurate than Vinateiri as well and personally I'm still amazed Indy thought they were trading up. Vandy takes a lot of flack for a couple of big missed kicks but there were dozens of games where he didn't miss a couple 40+ yarders and the team ended up winning because of it. I can count on a couple hands the # of games I had to watch the past few years where Cundiff/Cortez/Joe Blow shanked off 2 or 3 FGs through the game and we lost by less than 6 pts. I think Vanderjagt creates a 5 to 6 point swing/game in points and that's something I can always live w/ given the way Parcells likes to take it to the wire.

 

[AmericasTeam31]

Does anyone have any statistics about his game winning FGs?

Does he have the double digits like Vinteiri?

Vinatieri is only 8-17 from 50+ in his career. Vandy is 14-21 from 50+..... That's 20% better there.

Vinatieri was 79% outdoors last season. Vandy was 91%, including 100% from 40-49yds. Adam V. was 67% from 40-49yds outdoors.

Some thing else that's interesting is that Adam V. missed all 5 attempts from the left and right hash marks last year, but was perfect down the middle. He was also 15-20 when the game was tied or when the Pats were losing.

courtesy of foxsports.com

 

[johnnycomelately]

That was a pretty ridiculous comeback if you ask me. You totally missed my point. We need a good FG Kicker. I predict we need a better than average kicker, but VJ will definitely cost more than he's going to be worth next year. BOOK IT! But don't mind me.
BTW, you said the Colt's playoffs ended on a field goal kick....but you're willing to OVERSPEND for the guy who missed it. What are you really talking about?

My comeback is not ridiculous unless you try to change what you originally wrote. You claimed that "Kicking will not be a factor" and part of the reason you give for that is because "This team (the Cowboys) is going to blow teams out or need to score TDs late." The point I made is that kicking is always a factor and how a team wins games cannot accurately be predicted and everything I wrote in my response related to that point of view.

I used the Colts, high powered offense as an example of a team designed to blow teams out, as you put it, to show that you can never tell how particular games can play out.

Your latest response is equally ridiculous to the first because you then state, "you're willing to overspend" for the guy that missed the kick I spoke of. But where did you see my advocacy for signing Vanderjagt. YOU DIDN'T!!! You made it up to cover yourself when someone calls you out on the dumb statement you made.

The difference here is that I read and respond to your words. You respond to your own far fetched interpretations of what you read.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Does anyone have any statistics about his game winning FGs?

Does he have the double digits like Vinteiri?

Being a baseball fan im into stats and in baseball sabermetricians like Bill James have pretty much debunked the whole clutch theory on greatness.

Basically there was analysis of hitters in cluthc situations ie the eighth or ninth innings game within two runs or less and the statistics showed that hitters in these conditions are pretty much their statistical norms. It really demonstrated how players like Derek Jeter who are considered clutch are really playing their norms poepl remember the WS hits but forget about the divisional series whiffs.

I see very much the same with PKers in the NFL. Everyone remembers Vinaterris success in the superbowl but ignore his playoff misses such as against Denver and Carolina. I would be willing to bet that if you were to take his numbers in these supposed clutch situations such as 4th quarter and the score within a touchdown or less and youd see he is basically his norms.

Same applies for Vanderjagt. He is now villified because of his miss against the Steelers but I would again wager that his stats in 'clutch' situations would demonstrate his norms.

If Im a GM I play the percentages not the Superbowl hype.