My spin on Ellis/Glover issue

[Verdict]

I have been thinking over the fit of Ellis & Glover in the new 3-4 defense and have come to a couple of conclusions. First, Ellis and Glover are both very good football players (duh) which do not fit very well into the 3-4 as full time starters. The 3-4 does not play to their strengths and exposes their weaknesses.

On the other hand if they will buy into what Parcells is saying this could be awesome years for both of them, IF THEY ARE USED JUDICIOUSLY. If Ellis and Glover are used sparingly, or not at all in the first half of games they will be entering the game fresh and at full strength. As the game wears on, the opponents o-line will begin to get fatigued as thge game wears on.

The starting defensive line of Ferguson, Spears, and name your poison (Ratliff, Canty, Ellis) can go full tilt from the word go which will wear down the offensive line. Then in come a fresh Glover and Ellis (or Canty or Ratliff or insert other name here). The incoming fresh players will have a distinct advantage in speed vs. a tired O-line AND have the power to collapse the pocket against a fatigued o-line. While Glover might not be a protypical noseguard he would fare well against a fatigued o-line and be exceptional possessing both power and speed.

Parcells could also begin the game in a 3-4 and switch to a 4-3 in the second half and literally overwhelm an offensive line with fresh defensive linemen. Whether they start or not is really not an issue, the issue is if Ellis/Glover or others can come in fresh or be part of a rotation that keeps them fresh this defense is going to be better at the end of games than they have been in a long time.

 

[jksmith269]

Everything sounds good now but I can't wait to see how this all plays out during preseason.

 

[jman]

I'm sorta right there with you. We've got to keep in mind that the 3-4 is only our base defense. We are not going to totally scrap the 4-3. That's the important issue for Ellis and Glover. The won't start, but they will have a chance to get their plays in and contribute to the game.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm sorta right there with you. We've got to keep in mind that the 3-4 is only our base defense. We are not going to totally scrap the 4-3. That's the important issue for Ellis and Glover. The won't start, but they will have a chance to get their plays in and contribute to the game.

Eventually, I think one or the other will get tossed. When that happens, that's the point in which both will be forced to play for less or hit the silks. A matter of economics IMO.

 

[dargonking999]

Eventually, I think one or the other will get tossed. When that happens, that's the point in which both will be forced to play for less or hit the silks. A matter of economics IMO.

Sorry but BP defense were built on confusing teams (i.e the Pats) he wont ever "toss" a defense if anything he'll start trying to add in the 4-6 defense, i just dont think BP is gonna "toss" out a Defense that has been with the cowboys since they started,

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Sorry but BP defense were built on confusing teams (i.e the Pats) he wont ever "toss" a defense if anything he'll start trying to add in the 4-6 defense, i just dont think BP is gonna "toss" out a Defense that has been with the cowboys since they started,

Really? Tell me all about it when you actually read up on the subject. Parcells, to my knowledge, has never been a 50/50 defensive scheme guy. Going back to the Giants, when the switch was made, it was made. I believe you might see a part time 34, part time 43, in the begining but once everybody is on board with whichever scheme, I believe you will see a dominance of one or the other.

 

[dargonking999]

Really? Tell me all about it when you actually read up on the subject. Parcells, to my knowledge, has never been a 50/50 defensive scheme guy. Going back to the Giants, when the switch was made, it was made. I believe you might see a part time 34, part time 43, in the begining but once everybody is on board with whichever scheme, I believe you will see a dominance of one or the other.

i never said 50 50 i siad he wont toss it,i said he will still use it sparingly, to make his defense even mroe confusing

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

i never said 50 50 i siad he wont toss it,i said he will still use it sparingly, to make his defense even mroe confusing

As I tried to explain to you last week, you don't pay multi million dollar contracts for "Sparingly" used players. It does not make financial sense to do so.

 

[dargonking999]

As I tried to explain to you last week, you don't pay multi million dollar contracts for "Sparingly" used players. It does not make financial sense to do so.

And hmm lets see it's called pay cuts, and trust me when your winning SB, like the Pats, you'll take a pay cut. to wear that ring. Cause if you ahvent notcied niether Glover nor Ellis have one.

 

[1fisher]

And hmm lets see it's called pay cuts, and trust me when your winning SB, like the Pats, you'll take a pay cut. to wear that ring. Cause if you ahvent notcied niether Glover nor Ellis have one.

dk....it's obvious, your brain works faster than your fingers do......

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

And hmm lets see it's called pay cuts, and trust me when your winning SB, like the Pats, you'll take a pay cut. to wear that ring. Cause if you ahvent notcied niether Glover nor Ellis have one.

Really? I can name several players who don't share your point of view but lets just keep it recent and point to a guy like TO. He's on a championship calibur team and he isn't willing to accept any pay cuts. Glover is on record as saying he better be starting and finishing. I think your getting your personel wishes mixed up with the reality of the NFL again.

 

[dargonking999]

dk....it's obvious, your brain works faster than your fingers do......

yes i know, i try but its hard, and i'm very lazy i dont like taking time to look twice, and my hotlingo program isnt working making me angry.

 

[Verdict]

As I tried to explain to you last week, you don't pay multi million dollar contracts for "Sparingly" used players. It does not make financial sense to do so.

I can't argue with your logic in a salary cap world, but there is another side of the coin.

Both Ellis and Glover have cap-friendly deals. We paid Charles Haley a very good sum for coming in on obvious passing downs and it served us well. While I think Haley's deal was pre-cap, if Ellis/Glover only play 50% of the plays, if they dominate on the snaps they play it will be worth it.

 

[dargonking999]

Really? I can name several players who don't share your point of view but lets just keep it recent and point to a guy like TO. He's on a championship calibur team and he isn't willing to accept any pay cuts. Glover is on record as saying he better be starting and finishing. I think your getting your personel wishes mixed up with the reality of the NFL again.

So when has GLover been a egotistcal maniac, bent on doing thing s for himself first, how about we point are fingers to the team that has won 3 of 4 SB in the Salary CAp era,you know the team that has a WR playing SLot corner, DL playing TE, the ones who constantly take pay cuts, so they can stay in the winning team, Eagles havent won a ring, and never will win ring, so that was a waste of a post.

second, you dont know what Glovers mind set is, i'm willing tobet when the team starts winning, he wont mind not starting the game, i know i didnt have a problem comnig of the bench when my team was winning, i still got the girls, and trust me as long as glover is getting a ring he's never had he wont mind it so much.

 

[Verdict]

Really? I can name several players who don't share your point of view but lets just keep it recent and point to a guy like TO. He's on a championship calibur team and he isn't willing to accept any pay cuts. Glover is on record as saying he better be starting and finishing. I think your getting your personel wishes mixed up with the reality of the NFL again.

Ellis and Glover are under contract. They make too much money to "sit out and not play at all in protest" plus they are good players, not superstars. They will both play out their contracts, provided the Cowboys organization wants them to. Because they are under contract they will be forced to play how, when, and where Parcells wants to use them. Conversely, resigning them to play in a situation that doesn't use them full time might be another story. The trouble is both of them are coming up on the end of their careers and they may not have a lot of options available. I am not saying they are used up, but they are not superstars.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I can't argue with your logic in a salary cap world, but there is another side of the coin.

Both Ellis and Glover have cap-friendly deals. We paid Charles Haley a very good sum for coming in on obvious passing downs and it served us well. While I think Haley's deal was pre-cap, if Ellis/Glover only play 50% of the plays, if they dominate on the snaps they play it will be worth it.

I base my assumption on a couple of things.

1. Historically, Parcells has never really played a 50/50 type scheme. Ellis and Glover may get 50% of the snaps but I don't see either liking it. Further, of the 50% how many will be in situations where they can actually impact as opposed to playing a door stop role? There production will suffer and that will translate into dollars and cents at some point.

2. Ellis and Glover may have cap friendly contracts but there cap friendly contracts based off of what a star player would make. There not cap friendly contracts based on what a supporting player would make.

3. We have lots of youth in our front 7. As this youth developes, they are not going to sit on the bench for 50% of the snaps. If they become good players, and I think this likely, they will demand more playing time and more money. When this happesn, it will have to come from somewhere. What are the odds that it will be Glover and Ellis?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Ellis and Glover are under contract. They make too much money to "sit out and not play at all in protest" plus they are good players, not superstars. They will both play out their contracts, provided the Cowboys organization wants them to. Because they are under contract they will be forced to play how, when, and where Parcells wants to use them. Conversely, resigning them to play in a situation that doesn't use them full time might be another story. The trouble is both of them are coming up on the end of their careers and they may not have a lot of options available. I am not saying they are used up, but they are not superstars.

I beg to differ. While both may be under contract, neither is without option. Besides, as I posted in my other response, I don't see the team wanting to carry there contracts much past the point of developement of younger players.

 

[Verdict]

I base my assumption on a couple of things.

1. Historically, Parcells has never really played a 50/50 type scheme. Ellis and Glover may get 50% of the snaps but I don't see either liking it. Further, of the 50% how many will be in situations where they can actually impact as opposed to playing a door stop role? There production will suffer and that will translate into dollars and cents at some point.

2. Ellis and Glover may have cap friendly contracts but there cap friendly contracts based off of what a star player would make. There not cap friendly contracts based on what a supporting player would make.

3. We have lots of youth in our front 7. As this youth developes, they are not going to sit on the bench for 50% of the snaps. If they become good players, and I think this likely, they will demand more playing time and more money. When this happesn, it will have to come from somewhere. What are the odds that it will be Glover and Ellis?

1. Regardless of what scheme they line up in, if Glover/Ellis see only 50% of they plays they SHOULD dominate regardless of position, or neither is starter material anyway.

2. While at first blush your reasoning appears sound is really is relative for a couple of reasons. It all depends on how much production we are getting out of them in limited playing time and how that production rates against what we are using up cap-wise. With the salary cap going up each year, the impact of their contracts is less significant.

3. See response #2 above.

I can't fault your reasoning, but whether they are worth their salaries and/or cap impact remains to be seen.

 

[Hollywood Henderson]

Both players could be playing less but produce more...IE: SACKS!

Thats where Parcells plans to use them most, when they can make game changing plays.

Thats the bottom line stat for Dlineman...

Good point about the younger players ABQ...But both Ellius & Glover are safe this year IMHO...

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

So when has GLover been a egotistcal maniac, bent on doing thing s for himself first, how about we point are fingers to the team that has won 3 of 4 SB in the Salary CAp era,you know the team that has a WR playing SLot corner, DL playing TE, the ones who constantly take pay cuts, so they can stay in the winning team, Eagles havent won a ring, and never will win ring, so that was a waste of a post.

second, you dont know what Glovers mind set is, i'm willing tobet when the team starts winning, he wont mind not starting the game, i know i didnt have a problem comnig of the bench when my team was winning, i still got the girls, and trust me as long as glover is getting a ring he's never had he wont mind it so much.

Lord, why don't you just do a little research. The words on Glover are not mine but his own. Figure it out. Secondly, we're not New England. If it were so easy to duplicate what NE has done, why haven't more teams done so?

While I'm sure were all very thrilled with your HS football experiences, this is not about HS football. All of these guys can "get the girls". This is about business. Not your view of what all these players should be doing.

Please try and put more effort into your posts. I find it ironic that on the one hand, your trying to tell me that I don't know what is in Glovers mind when I'm only quoting what he, himself, stated but in the next sentace, you are saying that I should trust you that as long as Glover is winning rings, he won't have issues with his playing time.

Nice.