My thoughts on the DL

LatinMind

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There is really a over reaction to the Gregory news. Just a couple weeks ago this forum was all about he cant be trusted and he shouldnt be counted on. Now all of the sudden he gets suspended and all of the sudden now "what is this team gonna do without his production". Some of you flip flop so much i dont know how you function. Some of you even are trying to throw Irving into this even though he barely even played in 2018 and they did just fine without him.

Gregory's absence will cause somebody else to have to step up. But thats what they been doing for 3 yrs. I have confidence in McClay to find guys to come in, or guys like Charlton and Armstrong to step up. CHarlton started off good in 2018 with the first 4 games then injuries happened. First games he had 12 tackles 3 TFL 1 sack 2 QB hits 1FR and 4QB hurries. Just bad luck he hurt his hand came back then hurt his shoulder. Got healthy at the end of the yr but got a ltitle attitude because he didnt get his snaps back. Immaturity from him but he learned and was activated for the playoffs.

So much over reaction from that Rams game. It was one game, well it was 2. How come the other 16 games they played in 2018 teams couldnt do this?

I do think they need to add a peice or two in 2019. But nothing extreme is needed. They def need another 1tech to rotate with Woods, but get your mind off of a huge NT. Thats not gonna happen, thats not the type of def they play. They want NTs with a quick first step like Woods. A guy who is not just going to stand and create a pile. Their NTs have to be able to pursue and give them some passrush too.

Weakside DE lost something today, but lets not get carried away. Crawford has been starting there and has been effective even with the team rotating him to every spot on the DL. Alot of people were loving Armstrong, then when the regular season started and he wasnt playing much they say he's useless now. He's a 4th round pick. He's developing. There was Lawrence, Crawford, Gregory and Charlton that were ahead of him. Subtract Gregory this yr he now has a chance to show what he has with some meaningful snaps in camp to show what he has.

There are two guys in FA that i wouldnt mind Dallas going after on the DL because they would come cheap.

Tyeler Davison, NT from the Saints. Plays the nose the way the Cowboys play their NT.
Dante Fowler Jr, played nice in a rotation for the rams. I think he's over the immaturity and ready to play football.

Then theres the draft where i could see a DT like Gerald Willis which is probably more likely then a Davison signing.

At DE i love Ferguson in round 2 but would probably have to use that comp 4 pick to get him in a trade up which i would do.

Later in the draft theres a guy Ronheen Bingham, love this kid. Small school kid who took it to Jonah
Williams when they played early in the yr. CRazy production but it comes at a small school. But so did Khalil Macks. This kid can just straight get after the QB.

I see a leak with Gregory gone, its not a hole because the team didnt lean on him much. He was brought in on passing downs to rush. That was the extent. Now i think this yr they were gonna plan and using him more but his sickness won this round. I refuse to use the Colts and the Rams games to freak out over the DL, because i have 16 other games of data that shows me that they a good group all around.

Tweak it and let them loose again.
 

CATCH17

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My prediction...

We view DL as a weakness now and even after the draft and Free Agency we will look at our options headed into camp and it will still be a weakness.

Dallas typically ignores a unit that everyone knows needs help and this unit will be that unit this year because good options cost money in FA and DL fly off the board in the first round.

Irving and Gregory are high end talents and could make us the #1 defense in football by a longshot but they just can't get it together.
 

Sydla

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It's pretty simple.

With the loss of Gregory, the Cowboys have a problem on the edge right now. Even with Lawrence, the Cowboys were a middling pass rush team by just about any statistical measure. Removing Gregory is a big blow to what was already a fairly mediocre team at getting after the QB.

The Cowboys have to rethink how they approach FA now and the draft. Bargain bin slop like the Benson Mayowa's of the world and then throwing a couple of late round picks at DEs isn't going to cut it. They have to be aggressive and bold now this offseason along the DL.
 

LatinMind

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It's pretty simple.

With the loss of Gregory, the Cowboys have a problem on the edge right now. Even with Lawrence, the Cowboys were a middling pass rush team by just about any statistical measure. Removing Gregory is a big blow to what was already a fairly mediocre team at getting after the QB.

The Cowboys have to rethink how they approach FA now and the draft. Bargain bin slop like the Benson Mayowa's of the world and then throwing a couple of late round picks at DEs isn't going to cut it. They have to be aggressive and bold now this offseason along the DL.
Has the appraoch to FA hurt them?

Lawrence was a top of RD2 picks, Gregory was rd2 pick, Charlton was rd1 pick, Crawford rd3 pick, Collins rd 3 pick. Where are they using late round picks on the DL?
 

Sydla

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Has the appraoch to FA hurt them?

Lawrence was a top of RD2 picks, Gregory was rd2 pick, Charlton was rd1 pick, Crawford rd3 pick, Collins rd 3 pick. Where are they using late round picks on the DL?

Yes, the approach to FA has hurt them. They've nickel and dimed it at DL in FA. They've drafted pretty well along the DL but still could have improved the DL in FA. Instead, they've given us people like Thornton and Paea and some other slop.

You have an upward trending defense. You also don't have a first round pick. Now is the time to spend a little in FA and bring in a couple of players above the bargain bin level (note, I am not saying go out and re-sign Lawrence and then go sign Grady Jarrett and Clowney).

Your Fowler option makes sense for example. My gut tells me that he's going to be above the where the Cowboys will be looking for DL help in FA.
 

hlh_8728

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Has the appraoch to FA hurt them?

Lawrence was a top of RD2 picks, Gregory was rd2 pick, Charlton was rd1 pick, Crawford rd3 pick, Collins rd 3 pick. Where are they using late round picks on the DL?

I think it’s the multiple years where we started Nick Hayden, Paea and Thornton at 1 tech. We know we have a distinct weakness but do very little to nothing to patch up that weakness.

We had the same problem this year but Woods pulled a George Selvie and saved us at the position.

It isn’t like Taco has lives up to billing yet and Crawford has been overpaid but reliable for a while. Gregory unfortunately can’t be trusted, which is exactly why he dropped to us. Collins is rarely healthy and Irving is suspended yet again.

I’m really not a doom and gloomer but there is good reason to question our effectiveness at acquiring Dline talent. This is a major concern going into the offseason.

Hopefully Taco can step up and Collins can stay healthy for a full season.
 

Fredbeard

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While I agree that davison and Fowler Jr would be great additions , I think the d -line was overrated. Again , the d-line had more than one or two bad games . This belief that the cowboys are fine at the d-line has lead directly to outcomes like the rams game.your right about Randy Gregory .he had one season of modest productivity and wasn't even utilized that much
 
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kskboys

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You need a talented rotation for the DLine. When the Seachickens won their super bowl, the percentage of snaps played by their DLiners was extremely low, I think I remember it being 57%. That's how you build a DLine.

And that's why Bellychickens lets DLine studs walk, or trades them. Because you need a rotation, not one or two studs. Remember the end of the ATL/NE super bowl? ATL's DLine was completely gassed, NE's was absolutely swamping ATL's OLine.
 

erod

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Gregory is gone.

Lawrence is about to get paid, but has a tricky back and shoulder issues.

Charlton looks full bust.

Armstrong is raw.

Crawford is better inside.

Yeah, it ain't good.
 

dallasdave

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There is really a over reaction to the Gregory news. Just a couple weeks ago this forum was all about he cant be trusted and he shouldnt be counted on. Now all of the sudden he gets suspended and all of the sudden now "what is this team gonna do without his production". Some of you flip flop so much i dont know how you function. Some of you even are trying to throw Irving into this even though he barely even played in 2018 and they did just fine without him.

Gregory's absence will cause somebody else to have to step up. But thats what they been doing for 3 yrs. I have confidence in McClay to find guys to come in, or guys like Charlton and Armstrong to step up. CHarlton started off good in 2018 with the first 4 games then injuries happened. First games he had 12 tackles 3 TFL 1 sack 2 QB hits 1FR and 4QB hurries. Just bad luck he hurt his hand came back then hurt his shoulder. Got healthy at the end of the yr but got a ltitle attitude because he didnt get his snaps back. Immaturity from him but he learned and was activated for the playoffs.

So much over reaction from that Rams game. It was one game, well it was 2. How come the other 16 games they played in 2018 teams couldnt do this?

I do think they need to add a peice or two in 2019. But nothing extreme is needed. They def need another 1tech to rotate with Woods, but get your mind off of a huge NT. Thats not gonna happen, thats not the type of def they play. They want NTs with a quick first step like Woods. A guy who is not just going to stand and create a pile. Their NTs have to be able to pursue and give them some passrush too.

Weakside DE lost something today, but lets not get carried away. Crawford has been starting there and has been effective even with the team rotating him to every spot on the DL. Alot of people were loving Armstrong, then when the regular season started and he wasnt playing much they say he's useless now. He's a 4th round pick. He's developing. There was Lawrence, Crawford, Gregory and Charlton that were ahead of him. Subtract Gregory this yr he now has a chance to show what he has with some meaningful snaps in camp to show what he has.

There are two guys in FA that i wouldnt mind Dallas going after on the DL because they would come cheap.

Tyeler Davison, NT from the Saints. Plays the nose the way the Cowboys play their NT.
Dante Fowler Jr, played nice in a rotation for the rams. I think he's over the immaturity and ready to play football.

Then theres the draft where i could see a DT like Gerald Willis which is probably more likely then a Davison signing.

At DE i love Ferguson in round 2 but would probably have to use that comp 4 pick to get him in a trade up which i would do.

Later in the draft theres a guy Ronheen Bingham, love this kid. Small school kid who took it to Jonah
Williams when they played early in the yr. CRazy production but it comes at a small school. But so did Khalil Macks. This kid can just straight get after the QB.

I see a leak with Gregory gone, its not a hole because the team didnt lean on him much. He was brought in on passing downs to rush. That was the extent. Now i think this yr they were gonna plan and using him more but his sickness won this round. I refuse to use the Colts and the Rams games to freak out over the DL, because i have 16 other games of data that shows me that they a good group all around.

Tweak it and let them loose again.
Nice write up :bow::bow::bow: hey post some stuff on this Ronheen Bingham later if you have some videos/
 

LatinMind

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I think it’s the multiple years where we started Nick Hayden, Paea and Thornton at 1 tech. We know we have a distinct weakness but do very little to nothing to patch up that weakness.
.

why are you still hung up on that? are they still on the team to be a factor?
 

LatinMind

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While I agree that davison and Fowler Jr would be great additions , I think the d -line was overrated. Again , the d-line had more than one or two bad games . This belief that the cowboys are fine at the d-line has lead directly to outcomes like the rams game.your right about Randy Gregory .he had one season of modest productivity and wasn't even utilized that much

Are they overreated? Or are they overacheiving?

They are fine, they dont need to be overhauled. Could they use a tweak? Of course, but nothing drastic. A new guy maybe a rookie and keep developing them. Out of the 8 DL dallas has on contract for 2019 only 1 is over 26(Crawford). 3 are under 24
 

LatinMind

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You need a talented rotation for the DLine. When the Seachickens won their super bowl, the percentage of snaps played by their DLiners was extremely low, I think I remember it being 57%. That's how you build a DLine.

And that's why Bellychickens lets DLine studs walk, or trades them. Because you need a rotation, not one or two studs. Remember the end of the ATL/NE super bowl? ATL's DLine was completely gassed, NE's was absolutely swamping ATL's OLine.

Thats whats being built in dallas. You think SEA DL all of the sudden was what they were when they won the SB? They developed. You people complain when they sign people and they dont work out, and cry when they dont. My only gripe on how theyre building is they need to stop drafting players with drug problems.
 

Sydla

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why are you still hung up on that? are they still on the team to be a factor?

It shows the pattern this franchise uses in FA. That's why people are hung up on it.

You mentioned Fowler above as a target. But Fowler would be a divergence from their normal FA patterns.

The DL needs more than a tweak. They need another pass rushing end for sure. They need a more active 3T who can get to the QB with more consistency than we have. They also need a legit 1T.

They have some parts in guys like Armstrong and Crawford and hopefully Charlton gets his head screwed on straight. But they need more talent along the DL.
 

kskboys

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Thats whats being built in dallas. You think SEA DL all of the sudden was what they were when they won the SB? They developed. You people complain when they sign people and they dont work out, and cry when they dont. My only gripe on how theyre building is they need to stop drafting players with drug problems.
I only cry when the people we sign make no sense. Thornton was a not a NT, yet we signed him to play just that. We only draft lanky DT's and have ignored a myriad of prospects in the 2nd-7th rounds. Grady Jarrett, for one.

SEA's super bowl winning DLine rotation was built through both smart drafting and wise FA acquisitions. We don't draft players such as Brandon Mebane, a top notch play making NT. We did try though, w/ Malik, who isn't bad. Tony McDaniel, Cliff Avril, Chris Clemons, Clinton McDonald all very valuable parts of the rotation they acquired in FA, mostly inexpensive. Why don't e do it? We don't value the position.
 

kskboys

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It shows the pattern this franchise uses in FA. That's why people are hung up on it.

You mentioned Fowler above as a target. But Fowler would be a divergence from their normal FA patterns.

The DL needs more than a tweak. They need another pass rushing end for sure. They need a more active 3T who can get to the QB with more consistency than we have. They also need a legit 1T.

They have some parts in guys like Armstrong and Crawford and hopefully Charlton gets his head screwed on straight. But they need more talent along the DL.
Yeah, about 3 quality players would help tremendously.
 

John813

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My concern for the DL is Collins in that hopefully he can go a season without injuring his foot. Hard for guys to improve when every year they end up on the injury report in camp/during the season.

I'm hoping they get 1 DT and DE in the draft depending on how it falls.
 

LACowboysFan1

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Depends. DL gets you to the super bowl. Isn't that the goal?

DL is part of it, but you need DEs, RBs, QB, S, OL, LB as well. When I said bigger needs I was referring to what the Cowboys' owner/staff thinks, not necessarily what I think...
 
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