Nervous about our offensive line after hearing Big Nate's comments

[VaqueroTD]

Was listening to a recent podcast of Hanging with the Boys and don't have a lot of confidence in our OLine after hearing Big Nate talk about it.

Nate was reporting about Tyron Smith already having back problems in training camp. Nate basically said if he's having it this early you can go ahead and assume he's missing significant games this year, which I agree with.

The crew started talking about Tyron's backup because we saw how much it hurt last year. They talked about Zack Martin's comment on Tyler Smith learning 2 positions as a rookie. Zack basically said that it's much easier to learn two positions on the same side instead of going back and forth because at least some of the technique stays the same. Newton doesn't sound too high on the remark though. Being practical, he said Zack is a once in a lifetime talent, was Pro Bowl caliber from day one, and what may look easy for Zack is not the same for Tyler. Much longer and funnier bit that Nate launches into on this and why so many superstars are not great coaches, but he's right. And this reminds me of a thread here asking if we should be worried that Smith wasn't on the starters practice team from day one, because that does worry me, and yes, Zack was on the first team from day one.

Didn't hear much good or bad about Tyler, just doesn't seem like Nate is sure he's the one at LT. The crew didn't sound very high on Josh Ball either. They didn't talk much about Connor McGovern either, at least not the parts I listened to. They were pretty much mocking our depth at offensive tackle right now. Nate's philosophy is that if the left tackle and center are not locked up, a team won't have much success, and can get by at the other positions on the line. His jokes about Dak better learning how to run again this year have me worried.

If you listen to Hanging With the Boys, Nate is always the practical one. He's not a homer like Irvin. He's not one of those guys who gets in the dumps like the rest of the media and fans. He keeps it light, practical and makes his predictions and observations like an everyday player using some good examples from his career or others to explain his points.

LINK BELOW if you want to listen to it. One of the better episodes I've listen to. It starts with a great tribute to MB3 from Jesse Holley. Some good stories about MB3 you don't hear.

Hangin' with the Boys: Remembering Marion (dallascowboys.com)

 

[CouchCoach]

You have every reason to be nervous about this OL. They took a 1st rounder with a lot of potential upside over more battle tested ones. Every DC is going to spend time on that film of him with 3 penalties and trying to recreate that same situation.

If he falters, I look for the Center to have more issues getting the shotgun to the same point consistently.

It is not often that a team loses two starters on the OL in the same off season and not being players in FA will exacerbate that. If Steele also struggles, that pocket is going to be a mess.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

There's no way in hell we should get caught w/o a quality OL backup with starting potential while sitting on nearly $20M cap space. This is on Stephen Jones......

 

[RS12]

Should have been nervous about it before Nate talking about it. Seems obvious. I think WR is a concern too.

 

[CouchCoach]

There's no way in hell we should get caught w/o a quality OL backup with starting potential while sitting on nearly $20M cap space. This is on Stephen Jones......

Outside of the 1st round, they have not been good with OL.

They're going into this season with a LT that has not played a full season in 5 years.

Depth? We don't even know the quality of the starting OL yet.

 

[phildadon86]

There's no way in hell we should get caught w/o a quality OL backup with starting potential while sitting on nearly $20M cap space. This is on Stephen Jones......

But we will. Better to save the money right?

 

[Bobhaze]

IMO the Cowboys have waited way too long to address the Tyron Smith situation. As great as #77 has been for so long, he has sadly turned into an occasionally good player that cannot consistently be counted on because of injuries. He hasn’t played a full season since 2015 and has missed a whopping 32 games since.

I know, many will point to his good games last year and his PFF rating which was good. But that doesn’t take into account his injury prone-ness or how poorly he played in the SF playoff game last January. It was probably Smith’s worst game of his career.

The LT position is arguably the 2nd or 3rd most important position on an NFL roster and we are still depending an a LT who cannot be depended upon any more.

Hey I love Tyron Smith. He is a borderline HOFer who IMO was THE BEST player we had from 2011-16. But he’s a shell of what he once was. And if we are depending on a talented but raw and untested rookie in Tyler Smith to be the LT when Tyron Smith is out…wow, that’s a big gamble.

This OL IMO is the key to this season. If it doesn’t get better than last year’s performance, this team is going nowhere.

 

[JBS]

Anybody with a brain knows that the OL is an issue heading into this season.

 

[Creeper]

You have every reason to be nervous about this OL. They took a 1st rounder with a lot of potential upside over more battle tested ones. Every DC is going to spend time on that film of him with 3 penalties and trying to recreate that same situation.

If he falters, I look for the Center to have more issues getting the shotgun to the same point consistently.

It is not often that a team loses two starters on the OL in the same off season and not being players in FA will exacerbate that. If Steele also struggles, that pocket is going to be a mess.

The Cowboys did not have to cut La'el Collins. They created their own problem there at RT. They must be convinced Steele is the guy.

I am pretty sure Tyler Smith is going to struggle early in 2022. He may struggle the entire year. But if Tyron is already having back problems then maybe Tyler will be playing more LT than LG. But Imagine a rookie at LT and McGovern at LG. That could get really messy. Actually, Tyler Smith, McGovern, Biadasz, Martin and Steele week 1 is a scary thought.

 

[VaqueroTD]

The Cowboys did not have to cut La'el Collins. They created their own problem there at RT. They must be convinced Steele is the guy.

I am pretty sure Tyler Smith is going to struggle early in 2022. He may struggle the entire year. But if Tyron is already having back problems then maybe Tyler will be playing more LT than LG. But Imagine a rookie at LT and McGovern at LG. That could get really messy. Actually, Tyler Smith, McGovern, Biadasz, Martin and Steele week 1 is a scary thought.

LC was part of the problem at depth. We were fine with Steele at RT. Steele couldn't make it at LT and LC sure as heck wasn't going to either if he couldn't even bother to get in shape.

 

[Creeper]

IMO the Cowboys have waited way too long to address the Tyron Smith situation. As great as #77 has been for so long, he has sadly turned into an occasionally good player that cannot consistently be counted on because of injuries. He hasn’t played a full season since 2015 and has missed a whopping 32 games since.

I know, many will point to his good games last year and his PFF rating which was good. But that doesn’t take into account his injury prone-ness or how poorly he played in the SF playoff game last January. It was probably Smith’s worst game of his career.

The LT position is arguably the 2nd or 3rd most important position on an NFL roster and we are still depending an a LT who cannot be depended upon any more.

Hey I love Tyron Smith. He is a borderline HOFer who IMO was THE BEST player we had from 2011-16. But he’s a shell of what he once was. And if we are depending on a talented but raw and untested rookie in Tyler Smith to be the LT when Tyron Smith is out…wow, that’s a big gamble.

This OL IMO is the key to this season. If it doesn’t get better than last year’s performance, this team is going nowhere.

I said they should have tried replacing him 3 years ago. I took some flack for it but you could see he was starting to slide. George Young, GM of the Super Bowl Giants, once said, it is better to get rid of a play a year too soon than a year too late. But now that they have kept him and have not bothered to invest in a suitable backup, they have to ride him all the way. If he breaks down again they are pretty much screwed on offense. The thing is Tyron is not as old as some other OTs in the league. He is younger than Trent Williams who is rated by some as the best OT in the league still.

 

[VaqueroTD]

Should have been nervous about it before Nate talking about it. Seems obvious. I think WR is a concern too.

Been nervous, but staying optimistic. The Tyron back issues this early hurt.

 

[xwalker]

Was listening to a recent podcast of Hanging with the Boys and don't have a lot of confidence in our OLine after hearing Big Nate talk about it.

Nate was reporting about Tyron Smith already having back problems in training camp. Nate basically said if he's having it this early you can go ahead and assume he's missing significant games this year, which I agree with.

The crew started talking about Tyron's backup because we saw how much it hurt last year. They talked about Zack Martin's comment on Tyler Smith learning 2 positions as a rookie. Zack basically said that it's much easier to learn two positions on the same side instead of going back and forth because at least some of the technique stays the same. Newton doesn't sound too high on the remark though. Being practical, he said Zack is a once in a lifetime talent, was Pro Bowl caliber from day one, and what may look easy for Zack is not the same for Tyler. Much longer and funnier bit that Nate launches into on this and why so many superstars are not great coaches, but he's right. And this reminds me of a thread here asking if we should be worried that Smith wasn't on the starters practice team from day one, because that does worry me, and yes, Zack was on the first team from day one.

Didn't hear much good or bad about Tyler, just doesn't seem like Nate is sure he's the one at LT. The crew didn't sound very high on Josh Ball either. They didn't talk much about Connor McGovern either, at least not the parts I listened to. They were pretty much mocking our depth at offensive tackle right now. Nate's philosophy is that if the left tackle and center are not locked up, a team won't have much success, and can get by at the other positions on the line. His jokes about Dak better learning how to run again this year have me worried.

If you listen to Hanging With the Boys, Nate is always the practical one. He's not a homer like Irvin. He's not one of those guys who gets in the dumps like the rest of the media and fans. He keeps it light, practical and makes his predictions and observations like an everyday player using some good examples from his career or others to explain his points.

1: Nate was not considered to have a high football IQ as a player.
- He was cut by Washington and signed by Dallas.
- He barely held a roster spot for a few seasons.
- He has blamed that on being too heavy, but it came out that Jimmy was worried that Nate might be too dumb.

2: Nate is not the type of ex-player that likely spends much time reviewing game footage or really studying a lot of practices.
- His contributions on the dc.com shows seems to all be off-the-cuff with no real preparation.

3: Zack Martin is considered to be a master of technique and have off the charts football IQ.
- He was 1st team All-Pro as a rookie.
- He did that despite moving from LT in college to RG in the NFL.

4: Nate would obviously consider the difference in OT and OG very significant since he failed at RT but excelled at OG.

5: Veteran players are held out of OTAs/mini-camps if they have even the slightest physical issue.
- Tyron did not have any back issues all of last season.
- Doctors had recommended the back/neck surgery about 5 years ago but he did not want to miss the start of a season recovering from surgery.
- His early move to IR in 2020 finally allowed him to get the surgery and still have time to recover before the next season.
- If his ankle had not been stepped on, he likely would have played all 17 games plus the playoff game.

6: It is almost impossible to know anything about Josh Ball.
- The OTAs/mini-camps were all without pads.
- Broaddus said that Ball 'looked small' standing next to other players.
- The dc.com guys including Nate for some reason often tend to echo Broaddus.
- They still interact at practices and other events despite Broaddus moving to The Fan radio station.

7: The dc.com crew often do videos where a couple of them are on the sidelines at practices.
- In the past it was most often Broaddus with either Helman/Eatman/other.
- I've never seen Nate do one of those practice analysis videos.

 

[CouchCoach]

The OL is the reason I think that record of non-repeating division winners continues.

Just too many ?'s, if Big Smitty can stay on the field. Without him, they are in a world of hurt. And L'il Smitty will struggle as well. He needs a full season at LG.

The OL is the foundation of every team, not just the offense. They make everything work better, including the defense.

One thing about it though, no HC has more experience with bailing wire and chewing gum OL's. He once started 5 OG's in a playoff game and won. And while his Packer OL's were good, they always seemed to be missing a starter every time I watched them.

 

[Bobhaze]

The Cowboys did not have to cut La'el Collins. They created their own problem there at RT. They must be convinced Steele is the guy.

I am pretty sure Tyler Smith is going to struggle early in 2022. He may struggle the entire year. But if Tyron is already having back problems then maybe Tyler will be playing more LT than LG. But Imagine a rookie at LT and McGovern at LG. That could get really messy. Actually, Tyler Smith, McGovern, Biadasz, Martin and Steele week 1 is a scary thought.

This is one big reason why JJ is a bad roster builder. He almost always chooses “best case scenarios” for the season instead of doing what great GMs do- prepare for the worst case scenario. When the Cowboys decided to part ways with Collins, and did not select a more proven Lineman in the draft, it was a gamble.

Tyler Smith is talented and has upside. I like the kid’s future. But he’s still young, raw and untested. Does anyone here believe Tyron Smith plays more than 10 games this year? So…we can expect 21 year old Tyler Smith to be our LT and play well? Because there currently is no plan that I’m aware of for someone to step in adequately for #77 when he starts missing games.

It’s just bad roster planning IMO. Sure, it could work out. But what if it doesn’t? The “what if it doesn’t” is a simple explanation of the last 26 years around here.

 

[VaqueroTD]

1: Nate was not considered to have a high football IQ as a player.
- He was cut by Washington and signed by Dallas.
- He barely held a roster spot for a few seasons.
- He has blamed that on being too heavy, but it came out that Jimmy was worried that Nate might be too dumb.

2: Nate is not the type of ex-player that likely spends much time reviewing game footage or really studying a lot of practices.
- His contributions on the dc.com shows seems to all be off-the-cuff with no real preparation.

3: Zack Martin is considered to be a master of technique and have off the charts football IQ.
- He was 1st team All-Pro as a rookie.
- He did that despite moving from LT in college to RG in the NFL.

4: Nate would obviously consider the difference in OT and OG very significant since he failed at RT but excelled at OG.

5: Veteran players are held out of OTAs/mini-camps if they have even the slightest physical issue.
- Tyron did not have any back issues all of last season.
- Doctors had recommended the back/neck surgery about 5 years ago but he did not want to miss the start of a season recovering from surgery.
- His early move to IR in 2020 finally allowed him to get the surgery and still have time to recover before the next season.
- If his ankle had not been stepped on, he likely would have played all 17 games plus the playoff game.

6: It is almost impossible to know anything about Josh Ball.
- The OTAs/mini-camps were all without pads.
- Broaddus said that Ball 'looked small' standing next to other players.
- The dc.com guys including Nate for some reason often tend to echo Broaddus.
- They still interact at practices and other events despite Broaddus moving to The Fan radio station.

7: The dc.com crew often do videos where a couple of them are on the sidelines at practices.
- In the past it was most often Broaddus with either Helman/Eatman/other.
- I've never seen Nate do one of those practice analysis videos.

Someone brought it up and asked if they were sure he wasn't staying out just as a veteran precaution, but no, it sounds legit.

And yes, I agree Nate gets by more on jokes and improv, he is a people person, but if you listen to that show over the years, he has an uncanny ability to pick the wins and losses.

He just calls it like he sees it, doesn't overthink it and doesn't get bogged down in the hype.

 

[CouchCoach]

I gotta say, I love Big Smitty, man's a real warrior but I had back problems several years ago and I am 5'11 200. I cannot imagine back problems at his size. His discs must be the size of pickup tires.

 

[VaqueroTD]

The OL is the reason I think that record of non-repeating division winners continues.

Just too many ?'s, if Big Smitty can stay on the field. Without him, they are in a world of hurt. And L'il Smitty will struggle as well. He needs a full season at LG.

The OL is the foundation of every team, not just the offense. They make everything work better, including the defense.

One thing about it though, no HC has more experience with bailing wire and chewing gum OL's. He once started 5 OG's in a playoff game and won. And while his Packer OL's were good, they always seemed to be missing a starter every time I watched them.

And because we have the same question marks, unproven rookies and assumptions on the DEFENSIVE LINE too.

 

[Ranching]

Nate was reporting about Tyron Smith already having back problems in training camp.

So, Nate thinks that camp has already started? Lol!
Maybe he was watching Hard Knock reruns.

 

[speedkilz88]

1: Nate was not considered to have a high football IQ as a player.
- He was cut by Washington and signed by Dallas.
- He barely held a roster spot for a few seasons.
- He has blamed that on being too heavy, but it came out that Jimmy was worried that Nate might be too dumb.

2: Nate is not the type of ex-player that likely spends much time reviewing game footage or really studying a lot of practices.
- His contributions on the dc.com shows seems to all be off-the-cuff with no real preparation.

3: Zack Martin is considered to be a master of technique and have off the charts football IQ.
- He was 1st team All-Pro as a rookie.
- He did that despite moving from LT in college to RG in the NFL.

4: Nate would obviously consider the difference in OT and OG very significant since he failed at RT but excelled at OG.

5: Veteran players are held out of OTAs/mini-camps if they have even the slightest physical issue.
- Tyron did not have any back issues all of last season.
- Doctors had recommended the back/neck surgery about 5 years ago but he did not want to miss the start of a season recovering from surgery.
- His early move to IR in 2020 finally allowed him to get the surgery and still have time to recover before the next season.
- If his ankle had not been stepped on, he likely would have played all 17 games plus the playoff game.

6: It is almost impossible to know anything about Josh Ball.
- The OTAs/mini-camps were all without pads.
- Broaddus said that Ball 'looked small' standing next to other players.
- The dc.com guys including Nate for some reason often tend to echo Broaddus.
- They still interact at practices and other events despite Broaddus moving to The Fan radio station.

7: The dc.com crew often do videos where a couple of them are on the sidelines at practices.
- In the past it was most often Broaddus with either Helman/Eatman/other.
- I've never seen Nate do one of those practice analysis videos.

Have to add that Nate did not attend any of the OTA's or the minicamp. He was too busy driving around the country and into Mexico selling a pit bull.