nfl network Charley Casserly's top 10 OT

[VACowboy]

Just fine. Ferguson was being drafted as a LT, not a RT. How may RTs in the league play under 300?

Last season, in the NFL, there was only One, Gary Williams in Carolina. He plays at 296 and guess what, Carolina was one of the worst offensive units in the NFL last season. Dead last in the league. I don't think Williams would have been the starter had Jeff Otah not been lost for the season, 5 games in.

There is a major difference between LT and RT in the NFL. Smith played at around 280 lbs at USC. That's 20 pounds just to get to 300, which would be considered light in the NFL. That's a lot to ask. Ferguson, who you brought up earlier, came out at 295, which was his playing weight and he was much more polished then is Smith. He was a 4 year starter, winning the job from the day he stepped onto the team. He was a much more polished product when he came out. If you want to compare the two, that's fine with me but it holds no water in my eyes.

Brick was around 265 lbs when he started as a true first-year and never cracked 290 until his senior season. He started four years at Virginia, it's true, but his "natural playing weight" wasn't much more than 280.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

How much you want to bet that Tyron Smith isn't one of the tackles represented by Kiper's agent buddies? :laugh2:

Now that is probably very true. Kiper's been busted on that a few times.

 

[Shinywalrus]

Tyron Smith is absolutely worth that 9th pick. He's the safest pick, too. Simply, he's hands down, the best OT in this draft and rates extremely high in comparison to last year's OT class. He's in the 9-13 range (and has been for a while), and the Cowboys better not blow it if they get a chance to draft him.

Tyron Smith is a 20 year old, blue chip, cornerstone player in the offensive line. He is a player that you build an entire unit around.

Not only is Tyron Smith worth the 9th pick, he's worth it in spades.

Lots of hyperbole here.

It's just not reasonable to say that Tyron Smith is the safest offensive tackle prospect. How can you call a prospect safe when he isn't a plug-and-play fit at the position he played in college (RT) and he hasn't played the position he's been projected to (LT) at a high level of competition? There are too many changes, too many unknown quantities to make the safeness claim. Yes, players have done it and succeeded, but others haven't. It doesn't say anything about his upside, but safe? Come on.

Personally, I think that Gabe Carimi is the safest offensive tackle pick. He fits the part - great competition in the conference and across the line from him in practice, nasty disposition, perfect broad frame and reach for a RT, acceptable agility, great run blocking technique, a terrific and large body of work. Carimi would start on Day 1 for us at RT. Are we 100% sure we could say that about Tyron?

Say that Tyron has the highest upside - maybe that's true. I'm no offensive line development expert, so I have no idea. But has anyone who watched USC and Wisconsin games actually thought that Tyron was a more effective blocker? Or is it just "upside" and "athleticism?"

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well he wasn't wrong when he picked Mario Williams over Reggie Bush. Everyone criticized him for the pick and we all know how that turned out.

A lot of people on this very board picked Williams over Bush. Not saying that means anything with regards to Casserly but IMO, that was a pretty easy pick. JMO of course.

I'm sure there are other instances that Casserly has been correct on as well. I think it comes down to how Casserly is actually trying to evaluate these players. I mean, if you look at Smith and project him, based on physical development, improvement in technique and acquisition of experience, the finished product could be extremely impressive. Here and now, if he can't play at a minimum of 300 lbs. he's going to have a tough time of it IMO. As a future prospect, as I said earlier, I understand the reasoning but if he had to start this season, I don't know that I could say he was a better option.

 

[CATCH17]

I was with him until the Nate Solder debacle on his list.

 

[InmanRoshi]

There is no way that Smith is better than Trent Williams, Okung or Davis IMO. Each of those guys were lagit 300 pound plus players. They didn't put on weight to reach 300, they played at that weight and they played at a high level.

So that means that Anthony Davis is better than Ryan Clady and D'Brickshaw Ferguson as well by your standard?

And, Lord knows, neither of them could hold a candle to Andre Smith.

 

[CATCH17]

Lots of hyperbole here.

It's just not reasonable to say that Tyron Smith is the safest offensive tackle prospect. How can you call a prospect safe when he isn't a plug-and-play fit at the position he played in college (RT) and he hasn't played the position he's been projected to (LT) at a high level of competition? There are too many changes, too many unknown quantities to make the safeness claim. Yes, players have done it and succeeded, but others haven't. It doesn't say anything about his upside, but safe? Come on.


Say that Tyron has the highest upside - maybe that's true. I'm no offensive line development expert, so I have no idea. But has anyone who watched USC and Wisconsin games actually thought that Tyron was a more effective blocker? Or is it just "upside" and "athleticism?"

I can agree with that. Smith may have the most upside but if I have to play a guy vs the Jets week 1 i'd feel more comfortable with Carimi and even Castanzo.

But I love Smith's natural ability. I just don't see him as a road grader.

He'll make some spectacular blocks that 95% of Oline can't make though.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Brick was around 265 lbs when he started as a true first-year and never cracked 290 until his senior season. He started four years at Virginia, it's true, but his "natural playing weight" wasn't much more than 280.

As a Senior at Virginia, his natural weight at LT in his senior year was 295. I looked that up but you are correct. When he arrived at Virginia, he was around 250 lbs. The difference is that he grew into his 295 and played at that weight. It was not as big a shock for him to get to 300 plus and at LT, it was not as much of an issue. RT is a different position. There is a reason that you develop bigger players to play on that side of the line. It would be a lot to ask of Smith to gain 20 or 30 lbs in a single season but I think that's probably what it might take to have him be an immediate impact starter at RT, which is what I think we would want from a pick at 9 overall.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Anthony Davis proves how little difference playing "right tackle" makes in today's NFL. He was arguably the worst offensive tackle in the NFL last year, allowed an amazing 11.5 sacks and had 7 false start penalties trying to get the jump on speed rushers. Davis is just too slow footed for playing offensive tackle in today's version of the NFL, while other, more fleet of foot rookie tackles were much more successfull (Stafford). This isn't 1995 anymore, much less 1985, and you can't hide slow footed tackles from elite pass rushers by just sticking them on the right side. Defensive coordinators and 3-4 defenses will exploit it all day long. Throw the outdated "big slow right tackle" stereotype in the Museum of Football History with the "in the box, run supporting strong safety" and the "power blocking lead fullback".

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

So that means that Anthony Davis is better than Ryan Clady and D'Brickshaw Ferguson as well by your standard?

And, Lord knows, neither of them could hold a candle to Andre Smith.

This discussion has nothing at all to do with what players are today if that is where you are going. Clady was not small when he was at Boise St. He was a good 310 pounds then. I mean, there really is no comparison from that standpoint to Tyron Smith and as for Ferguson, well, I've covered that. Ferguson was bigger also but more importantly, it's a different position. You can't really compare the two.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Casserly > anyone on this board;

when it comes to talent evaluations. He may miss, just as all evaluators do, but his logic is generally sound. Not only did he pass on Bush, he passed on Vince Young also. The draft is not a science, its an art and as such you will never be 100%. Casserly may be wrong on Tyron, but I would take his logic over the guy doesn't weigh enough or the guy hasn't played at that weight logic. If weight was the only metric, Arron Gibbson would be in the Hall of Fame.

I do recall, D. Ware never played at 260lbs. I think he was a 248lb def end in college. Now he is a 260lb, OLB.... Rat was a 280lb DE/DT at Auburn, now he is a 305lb NT in a 3-4 def.

We all know how those two worked out. Saying a guy never played at a certain weight in college is rather short sighted. IMHO

I think your missing the point. Nobody is saying that Smith can't eventually develop into a heck of a player. The point is that right now, it's a big question as to if he is big enough to start at RT in the NFL.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You're stuck on his weight at USC, yet despite the fact he was lighter than most tackles he comported himself just fine despite that weight. How much better is he with the added weight. He tested out athletically as one of, if not the best athlete of all the linemen overall at that weight (307 lbs).

I have no problems believing a 20-year old, 6'5" kid with nearly 37" arms is and will be able to maintain and add good weight.

The incessant need to keep questioning his weight is simply the conveinent go-to criticism for worrywarts.

Like Brad Johnson checking down to the fullback in the flat, it's far too predictable and old.

In regards to D'Brick and his playing weight, you've completely missed the point. D'Brick came in playing from anywhere from 245-260 and increased his weight to around 295 his Senior season. Tyron Smith has been playing somewhere around 280ish and came out early as a Junior. The point is both players performed well at their relatively lighter weights. I see no problems with Smith moving forward in that department.

Again, not the point. Can he develop, I think everybody agrees that it's very possible. Here and now, is he big enough? How many RTs in the NFL play at 280 or even 290? As I said earlier, there is only 1 who starts at under 300 and that's only because Carolina was forced to play him. If not for injury, there would have been zero players under 300 starting at RT in the NFL. I think you have to conclude that there is a reason for that.

 

[InmanRoshi]

. The point is that right now, it's a big question as to if he is big enough to start at RT in the NFL.

According to who?

 

[YosemiteSam]

Again, not the point. Can he develop, I think everybody agrees that it's very possible. Here and now, is he big enough? How many RTs in the NFL play at 280 or even 290? As I said earlier, there is only 1 who starts at under 300 and that's only because Carolina was forced to play him. If not for injury, there would have been zero players under 300 starting at RT in the NFL. I think you have to conclude that there is a reason for that.

He is 310lbs. That is big enough. He can also get even bigger. I bet he can play at 320-325lbs. The kid is 20 years old. I think you are going a bit overboard on this weight thing. You are act like there is a 80% chance that the kid can only play at 280lbs.

 

[CATCH17]

Say that Tyron has the highest upside - maybe that's true. I'm no offensive line development expert, so I have no idea. But has anyone who watched USC and Wisconsin games actually thought that Tyron was a more effective blocker? Or is it just "upside" and "athleticism?"

At certain things Smith is already better at.

When it comes to getting out in space and making a block Tyron is as good as it gets. He looks like a high motor guy too which is hard to find on the oline.


But as of today Carimi is a better player and an absolute sledge hammer in the run game.


I just want the guy who is going to bring it every week and not take a game off because playing oline will wear on you after awhile.

Tyron Smith being 20 is a plus but it could also be a negative early in his career.


We just gotta be ready for the Jets week 1 so we need a guy who is ready to hit the ground running and can pick things up quick.

 

[burmafrd]

Really hyped on his weight. well he is a very ripped 307+ now. Sort of shoots your arguement to pieces considering how well he did the tests and how the scouts loved how he moved in the pro day.

 

[Dough Boy]

I think your missing the point. Nobody is saying that Smith can't eventually develop into a heck of a player. The point is that right now, it's a big question as to if he is big enough to start at RT in the NFL.

With all due respect, I think you are missing the point. The draft is about 'projected development'. You don't take the best guy today that has no upside at number 1 (for example, the Baylor kid is not a high first round pick becasue his upside is limited). You take the guy that is good today, that has the potential to be great in two years.

It was a big point when we take a undersize DE and 'project' him to OLB. Ware was thought to be too small, but now he is the best player on Def at any position (JMHO). Based on what you are saying, we should have passed on Ware. Again, Ware played at 248 his Sr year as a DE and now he is 260lbs OLB. He did not drop back in collge, and now dropping into coverage is one of his underrated traits.

If the draft is about anything, its about where a guy will go when: a) he is under a professional coaching staffs direction, b) being introduced to a customized weight training program, c) given a personal diet that helps him build muscle with no loss of speed or quickness, d) he has 24 hours to work on technique and not worry about going to class.

Thats the draft ABQ. Not being a smart arse, put its about projection.

 

[dbair1967]

I think your missing the point. Nobody is saying that Smith can't eventually develop into a heck of a player. The point is that right now, it's a big question as to if he is big enough to start at RT in the NFL.

How is that a question? How big does he need to be exactly because right now he's about 315lbs or so.

 

[laythewood28]

Anthony Davis proves how little difference playing "right tackle" makes in today's NFL. He was arguably the worst offensive tackle in the NFL last year, allowed an amazing 11.5 sacks and had 7 false start penalties trying to get the jump on speed rushers. Davis is just too slow footed for playing offensive tackle in today's version of the NFL, while other, more fleet of foot rookie tackles were much more successfull (Stafford). This isn't 1995 anymore, much less 1985, and you can't hide slow footed tackles from elite pass rushers by just sticking them on the right side. Defensive coordinators and 3-4 defenses will exploit it all day long. Throw the outdated "big slow right tackle" stereotype in the Museum of Football History with the "in the box, run supporting strong safety" and the "power blocking lead fullback".

 

[dbair1967]

Now that is probably very true. Kiper's been busted on that a few times.

More than a few.

I honestly cant stand the guy anymore and believe he's a 100% stooge.

I used to buy his draft guides every yr, but stopped after stuff like the above, along with seeing him write glowing reports on certain players in his guide, then later filet a team he didnt like for drafting him and calling a certain pick garbage.

Because of him and that clown Berman, I chose to start watching NFLN's coverage fulltime two years ago. I only watch ESPN now during commercials. Their draft coverage has gone WAY downhill.