NFLPA to pursue collusion charges if Bryant, Thomas don't sign long-term deals

[Shunpike]

So it is OK if players talk behind the curtain to screw teams but it isn't OK for clubs to try and protect their financial interests by negotiating with other teams? This is absurd.

 

[Doomsday101]

Bingo, CJ won the lottery with his last contract because rookie salaries were uncapped at that time and while I understand agents desire to shoot for the moon, CJs terms are a non starter imo.

Unfortunately for Dez, etc, they are currently bound by terms that no longer over-inflate their salaries and if I was making the decisions, I'd hold firm on reasonable terms: I'd guarantee $30+ million now and add more guarantees down the road if Dez stays healthy and continues to perform at a high level. Even if Dez pouted and sat out, I'd hold firm because I believe its just as important to set a precedent of not caving into players demands because I believe the long term negative consequences of caving in are more destructive than the short term benefits of getting the player back on the field.

Risk needs to be more balanced (Miami will be completely screwed if Suh has a career ending injury in training camp that will take years to absorb). I don't think its fair to the team to have to incur 100% of the risk, so if the player wants a lot of guarantees, then he's got to give in other areas. Tough **** if there is a franchise tag that keeps them from receiving a max contract, I'd have zero sympathy for a player set to receive $29M guaranteed over 2 years.

I wish I knew what the real hang up is in getting this done, I find it hard to believe its simply over a few dollars. No matter what deal finally gets done, the risk is always on the team in the early parts of a contract, its only after the player has stayed healthy and continues to play at a high level does the risk start to balance out.

I fully agree. If Dez and his agent have an issue with the franchise tag take it up with the union. Getting paid the avg of the top 5 is a lot of money even if it is 1 year. Meantime Dallas is not opposed to getting a long term deal done, it does benefit the Cowboys as well to have a long term deal. I think these deals give teams flexibility that the tag does not give.

 

[yimyammer]

I fully agree. If Dez and his agent have an issue with the franchise tag take it up with the union. Getting paid the avg of the top 5 is a lot of money even if it is 1 year. Meantime Dallas is not opposed to getting a long term deal done, it does benefit the Cowboys as well to have a long term deal. I think these deals give teams flexibility that the tag does not give.

Agreed, I also see value in the flexibility that using the franchise tag this year and next year gives the team, especially if Dez's salary and guarantees are as much or more than the $29M he would be paid this year and next under the tag.

Those two years correspond nicely with the likely remaining window of Romo and if he happens to be done at the end of next season, then I'd prefer to invest my cap dollars in my young line than a 28 year old receiver with no franchise QB to get him the ball.

On the other hand, if Dez goes on a Jerry Rice like run and plays until he is 40, then I will be making a mistake but I still have the option of the tag for the third year (unlikely due to the crazy cost) or negotiating a new contract with him at that end of 2016.

Its a tough call and teams better know who their dealing with very well when locking up a roster spot and tons of cap dollars on one player in a league that has been watered down by free agency.

 

[dogberry]

If each team were to collude in public through their local beat writer, would there be a legal issue?

I think D101 said this. If I'm wrong, my fault not his.

 

[Crown Royal]

The problem is that the Franchise Tag-based contract is a pre-set pre-determined agreement between the NFLPA and NFL. Meaning, if no new contract is signed to replace that, that in itself cannot be contested because it was already legally agreed to by the union and the NFL. That's my point. If the NFLPA really wants to claim collusion, collusion can only happen if a new "tainted" contract is offered (which has happened) and is signed (which has not happened) and there is no other "non-approved" contract on the table.

From a legal standpoint, if no new contract is signed and the pre-agreed-to-by-both-sides franchise offer is on the table, collusion is not possible all because there is a valid, non-debatable contract offer on the table (franchise tag). If there was no CBA preset franchise contract, then collusion would be possible without signing a contract. In fact, if the Cowboys really want to CYA themselves, they just need to pull the contract off the table right before the time frame for signing a new contract ends. Then technically, the franchise contract would be the only contract offer in play and, as I pointed out, it was agreed to by the NFLPA and NFL via CBA so there would be no debating its validity.

I'm not a lawyer, but my gf is. I'm gonna ask her if you're right or not because I refuse to concede to internet arguments without a fight.

I'll be back, don't go anywhere.

 

[Doomsday101]

Agreed, I also see value in the flexibility that using the franchise tag this year and next year gives the team, especially if Dez's salary and guarantees are as much or more than the $29M he would be paid this year and next under the tag.

Those two years correspond nicely with the likely remaining window of Romo and if he happens to be done at the end of next season, then I'd prefer to invest my cap dollars in my young line than a 28 year old receiver with no franchise QB to get him the ball.

On the other hand, if Dez goes on a Jerry Rice like run and plays until he is 40, then I will be making a mistake but I still have the option of the tag for the third year (unlikely due to the crazy cost) or negotiating a new contract with him at that end of 2016.

Its a tough call and teams better know who their dealing with very well when locking up a roster spot and tons of cap dollars on one player in a league that has been watered down by free agency.

I don't worry so much about Romo window, I think a big key for a young QB is to have the weapons in place so that he is not forced to come in and try to win it by himself. I think the longterm deals gives a team flexibility to restructure contracts to that room can be made just as Romo has restructured his as well as others on the team. I think most young QB fail because they end up on teams will little talent around them and are asked to do too much too soon. I think looking at Russell Wilson he came in as a rookie and did not have to carry his team nor does he have to carry them today, he has a talented group around him and as long as he is avoiding big mistakes his team gives him chances to win.

 

[jrumann59]

It is? What law does that fall under?

In most states unless both parties are aware that a phone conversation is being recorded it is not admissible in court. Some states it is illegal to record any phone conversation without the other party knowing.

 

[VACowboy]

I brought up the television money because he was comparing what players make now, compared to what players like Irvin made. The salary cap is higher now than it was in the 90's. Why? Because of television revenue. It's like talking about that people make $15 minimum wage now, and crying about just 30 years ago it was $3.35.

Well, you brought up the TV deal and ticket prices in saying that the owners are making more money. Your point is that players just want their share of the pie, right? My point is that what the owners make has nothing to do with the size of the pie. The pie was legislated a few years back in an agreement by which the players agreed to play. Now they they are saying, "To hell with the rules. I want more." And it doesn't work that way. The CBA may not be exactly fair, but you know what? Tough. No one forced the Union to sign it. The players could have refused to play under terms they didn't like, gone and gotten jobs like the rest of us. But they didn't do that, did they? In my opinion, neither Dez nor Demaryus Thomas, nor any other NFL player, has a leg to stand on when it comes to money. They agreed to the salary cap. Time for Dez and Demary to be satisfied with a paltry $13M salary, a $20M signing bonus and do their job.

As far as being more marketable because of the star go's. That's not true anymore. Guys like Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Marcus Mariotta, Watt, Suh, Lynch, ODB, etc. are all just as marketable where they are as they would be in Dallas. Dez will sell as many jerseys, have his name on the same amount of shoes, and be in as many commercials regardless of where he plays. Hopefully that changes again, but it will take a few more years like last year, if we want the Star to be as relevant as it used to be.

Sure those guys are marketable. They're the biggest stars in the game. But if they played in Dallas they'd be on TV more (not just during games), covered more closely by the media all over the place and generally have a much brighter light shining on them than they would anywhere else in the league. It's no coincidence that, year in and year out, Dallas plays the max number of national games and as many or more prime-time showdowns than anyone else, regardless of how good they are. So, yeah, super rook Marcus Mariota will be an attractive pitch man, but if he was the QB of the Dallas Cowboys you could multiply his appeal 20 times.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't worry so much about Romo window, I think a big key for a young QB is to have the weapons in place so that he is not forced to come in and try to win it by himself. I think the longterm deals gives a team flexibility to restructure contracts to that room can be made just as Romo has restructured his as well as others on the team. I think most young QB fail because they end up on teams will little talent around them and are asked to do too much too soon. I think looking at Russell Wilson he came in as a rookie and did not have to carry his team nor does he have to carry them today, he has a talented group around him and as long as he is avoiding big mistakes his team gives him chances to win.

This is an interesting point and it I do wonder if this is actually why the Cowboys are not offering big long term guaranteed money. If you give a big contract, planing on the ability to restructure down the road, a guy like Dez (if you can believe the stories), may put himself in a position where he has no room to renegotiate. He may put himself in a position where he is strapped. If he does, what are the chances that this kind of flexibility is even possible?

 

[yimyammer]

I don't worry so much about Romo window, I think a big key for a young QB is to have the weapons in place so that he is not forced to come in and try to win it by himself. I think the longterm deals gives a team flexibility to restructure contracts to that room can be made just as Romo has restructured his as well as others on the team. I think most young QB fail because they end up on teams will little talent around them and are asked to do too much too soon. I think looking at Russell Wilson he came in as a rookie and did not have to carry his team nor does he have to carry them today, he has a talented group around him and as long as he is avoiding big mistakes his team gives him chances to win.

Thus why I see value in the flexibility of not being locked into Dez at a bad price for long term (love him at reasonable terms). While not having Dez would hurt and I hope it never happens, all is not lost because his loss would free up a ton of cap room to maintain/build that team you talk about around whomever is playing QB

 

[Doomsday101]

Thus why I see value in the flexibility of not being locked into Dez at a bad price for long term (love him at reasonable terms). While not having Dez would hurt and I hope it never happens, all is not lost because his loss would free up a ton of cap room to maintain/build that team you talk about around whomever is playing QB

Not on a bad deal I'm talking top 5 money not CJ money.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This entire threat is ********. NFLPA is bringing a Water Pistol to a Global Thermal Nuclear Engagement.

 

[VACowboy]

This entire threat is ********. NFLPA is bringing a Water Pistol to a Global Thermal Nuclear Engagement.

And that will never change.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

So it is OK if players talk behind the curtain to screw teams but it isn't OK for clubs to try and protect their financial interests by negotiating with other teams? This is absurd.

No actually it isn't absurd.

 

[Thefeelofcotton]

I promise you that when Jerruh heard that the NFLPA would file collusion charges he laughed and said, "Pfft, okay muh suckas, let's play hard ball." and he franchises Dez out of spite just to make the NFLPA look like the fools they are.

 

[Nightman]

This entire threat is ********. NFLPA is bringing a Water Pistol to a Global Thermal Nuclear Engagement.

This a Hail Mary in a Hurricane

The NFLPA should be telling their stars how good a deal the franchise tag is

Top money at your position and you are still a FA at year's end

Dez stands to make over 50m in guarantees the next 3 years if he goes year to year

 

[dogberry]

Is it a crime for owners/GMs to talk about historical or current budgeting practices for position groups with special emphasis on the work of Super Bowl winning teams?

 

[cowboyblue22]

the dallas morning news says that if nflpa wins this dez get three times calvin Johnson money is that right
and does it effect the cap if that's true would cripple the cowboys.

 

[jrumann59]

the dallas morning news says that if nflpa wins this dez get three times calvin Johnson money is that right
and does it effect the cap if that's true would cripple the cowboys.

How, the scale that CJ was signed against no longer exists.

 

[MrPeanutbutter]

So the players are colluding to get their guys to sign be claiming teams are colluding to do the opposite.