Nick Fairly vs Suh as Prospects

[NeonDeion21]

Assuming he won't turn out to be a head-case, I think Fairley will be a very good pro.
But you get brave points for actually trying to compare him to Suh on an equal basis.

BTW, 40 yard time for interior DL is pretty much meaningless. I would be curious to see what the lower and upper body strength comparisons are. I would guess that Suh is much stronger, but I don't know for sure.

Also, that's the first time I've ever heard someone say a dline player winning a national title gives them bonus points over one of their piers. I wonder how many Hall of Fame Dlineman also won national titles? You actually ask that question about QBs too...the answer would be almost none.

Still, I agree that Fairley should be a top ten worthy player.

Didn't think it hurt the argument. I like winners on my team. If you look at the Patriots draft last year they drafted two players in Brandon Spikes and Aaron Hernandez who won a combined 4 championships.

 

[DFWJC]

Didn't think it hurt the argument. I like winners on my team. If you look at the Patriots draft last year they drafted two players in Brandon Spikes and Aaron Hernandez who won a combined 4 championships.

No, it can't hurt. If two players were exactly equal in all areas, I would lean to the one with the hardware too. Or if one was on a team that was miserable his whole career, that may hurt some too...all else being equal.

 

[NeonDeion21]

No, it can't hurt. If two players were exactly equal in all areas, I would lean to the one with the hardware too. Or if one was on a team that was miserable his whole career, that may hurt some too...all else being equal.

And it wasn't like I was holding against Suh. It was just one other little fact that helps build Fairly's resume.

 

[TNCowboy]

Answer to this question is pretty simple in my mind. Fairley played on a team that was loaded. Not taking anything away from him but he did not play on a team like Nebraska who did not enjoy the same kind of talent. I watched Suh play against triple teams and still kick the crap out of those teams. Suh has gone onto the highest level of the sport and continued to dominate in the same kind of fashion. I like Fairley very much but he is not Suh.

Fairley faced double teams from linemen all season long. He played against offensive players, who - in a much greater proportion - will play on Sundays. He played against much stiffer competition on a weekly basis, by far, than Suh did. He was a one man wrecking crew. If it weren't for his character issues and having been just another decent SEC DL prior to last year, he'd be the #1 pick hands down.

That isn't to denigrate Suh. I'd choose him over Fairley any day. I doubt Fairley will have as good a career as Suh will. Suh seems like a kid who will always give effort and will avoid off-field entanglements that kids like Fairley seem to get mixed up in.

Auburn's D was hardly loaded with all-stars. They were savaged much of the season by some less than stellar offenses. But Fairley saved them repeatedly. His defensive performance last season was the most impressive I've seen by an SEC defender in 20 years. By far.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

So I am going to try to debate something that I probably don't have a chance on being right on. One family member this weekend asked me how good I think Nick Fairly is. I responded with the answer, "I believe he is close to, or equal to Suh as a prospect." And that is not a popular answer with most people.

So let me present an argument for Fairly before you jump all over me. Let's compare the final season stats of Fairly and Suh.

2010 Season

Nick Fairly

GP: 14

Sacks: 12

TFL: 24

FF: 2

FR: 2

QB Hurries: 21




2009 Season

Ndamukong Suh

GP: 14

Sacks: 12

TFL: 20.5

FF: 1

FR: 0

QB Hurries: 19



http://www.cfbstats.com/2010/player/37/1023141/index.html
http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/player/463/83162/index.html


One other factor that has a major influence on the prospects is their level of competition. Any college football fan will tell you that the SEC is superior to the BIG 12. So advantage: Fairly

What about the measurable? They actually very similar, take a look:

Nick Fairly

Height: 6'4

Weight: 297 lbs.

40 yd dash: 4.87


Ndamukong Suh

Height: 6'4

Weight: 307 lbs.

40 yd dash: 4.98


They are very close in Height, Weight, Speed. Fairly is quicker, but Suh is heavier.

There is one thing that Fairly has that Suh doesn't and it inst something that can be argued. A National Championship. I always value players who win championships and have great performances in those games. Fairly was named MVP of the game and held the #1 scoring offense Oregon to 19 points.

Now I'm not saying Fairly will be a better pro or anything, but to say Fairly isn't in Suh's class is stretching the truth. I believe he is very close talent wise to Suh.

And to finish up with a Cowboys spin on this, I believe if Fairly is there at #9, he is too good of a talent to pass up.

I appreciate you doing this comparison.......to bad we cannot measure moral character of a person.

You are correct about everything.......it is much closer then I would of imagined.....great job!:starspin

 

[speedkilz88]

How much does it help the Cowboys if they drafted Fairley that they have Jay Ratliff to mentor him?

 

[NeonDeion21]

How much does it help the Cowboys if they drafted Fairley that they have Jay Ratliff to mentor him?

I think it would help some. I also believe Garrett would really drive Fairly in a lot of the ways he drove Mike Jenkins at the end of the year.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Fairley faced double teams from linemen all season long. He played against offensive players, who - in a much greater proportion - will play on Sundays. He played against much stiffer competition on a weekly basis, by far, than Suh did. He was a one man wrecking crew. If it weren't for his character issues and having been just another decent SEC DL prior to last year, he'd be the #1 pick hands down.

That isn't to denigrate Suh. I'd choose him over Fairley any day. I doubt Fairley will have as good a career as Suh will. Suh seems like a kid who will always give effort and will avoid off-field entanglements that kids like Fairley seem to get mixed up in.

Auburn's D was hardly loaded with all-stars. They were savaged much of the season by some less than stellar offenses. But Fairley saved them repeatedly. His defensive performance last season was the most impressive I've seen by an SEC defender in 20 years. By far.

Two things here. I didn't say double teamed, I said triple teamed. The second thing I would say is that I didn't say all-stars. In fact, I quantified that in another post. I would not say that Auburn was devoid of talent on the defensive side of the ball but I was surprised to see what the level of talent actually was at Auburn this year. This should have been an excellent class for them. Just saying.

At the end of the day, I watched both players and nothing in my mind suggests to me that Fairley is more talented then Suh. He has some special skills and I am not a guy who is against us taking that player if he is there but he's not Suh. Suh is something all together different then anybody I've seen come out in a long, long time. JMO

 

[NeonDeion21]

Two things here. I didn't say double teamed, I said triple teamed. The second thing I would say is that I didn't say all-stars. In fact, I quantified that in another post. I would not say that Auburn was devoid of talent on the defensive side of the ball but I was surprised to see what the level of talent actually was at Auburn this year. This should have been an excellent class for them. Just saying.

At the end of the day, I watched both players and nothing in my mind suggests to me that Fairley is more talented then Suh. He has some special skills and I am not a guy who is against us taking that player if he is there but he's not Suh. Suh is something all together different then anybody I've seen come out in a long, long time. JMO

So let's throw out stats for a second because they are similar. Suh dominated games in the Big 12, which cannot be argued. Did you see any similarities of this dominance with Fairly? He did not have one singular monster game like Suh had vs Texas, but instead he had some very elite games against teams like LSU and Alabama. Did he flash any dominance to you?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

So let's throw out stats for a second because they are similar. Suh dominated games in the Big 12, which cannot be argued. Did you see any similarities of this dominance with Fairly? He did not have one singular monster game like Suh had vs Texas, but instead he had some very elite games against teams like LSU and Alabama. Did he flash any dominance to you?

I thought Fairley was dominating in a few performances. I thought he was pretty well dominating against a few teams, LSU, Miss St., Clemson just to name a few. The one thing that does concern me is that you didn't see this from him the year before. Now, you can say that it takes a year or so to make the transition and that's probably true but the difference to me is that Suh is so utterly dominating, at the collegiate level, he made teams change their offenses. I've never seen anybody be as dominating as Suh was against Texas.

 

[LUVDABOYS]

So let's throw out stats for a second because they are similar. Suh dominated games in the Big 12, which cannot be argued. Did you see any similarities of this dominance with Fairly? He did not have one singular monster game like Suh had vs Texas, but instead he had some very elite games against teams like LSU and Alabama. Did he flash any dominance to you?

One of the best Offenses in College football last year and Fairley made them 2nd rate. Thats hard to admit because I'm a Ducks fan, but Fairley was dominate in that game.

 

[AKATheRake]

I believe if Fairly is there at #9, he is too good of a talent to pass up.

If Fairley is there at #9 we should be ecstatic and definitely draft him.

 

[Zaxor]

the problem with the comparison is it is just numbers till you put meaning to them...by that I mean how many times was Suh doubled team compared to Fairley...were there any future nfl players they were going up against and at what talent level...backup, starter, probowler... etc... but just from watching with my own eyes I would say Suh was better and it wasn't a hard decision for me.

 

[DFWJC]

the problem with the comparison is it is just numbers till you put meaning to them...by that I mean how many times was Suh doubled team compared to Fairley...were there any future nfl players they were going up against and at what talent level...backup, starter, probowler... etc... but just from watching with my own eyes I would say Suh was better and it wasn't a hard decision for me.

Not only that, even the number left out a key Interior DLineman element--which is strength.

They both can play though.

 

[jterrell]

As a prospect on tape for their final collegiate seasons they are very similar IMHO.

I think Fairley has the BEST tape of this class. I saw him play 4 or 5 entire games and he dominated each game. He didn't just play well, he dominated. That was very Suh-like.

Now as you take everything into account Suh was more consistent, had a better work ethic, had a better family situation, was a model citizen.... it is a big edge to Suh. But Fairley is Warren Sappesque. He moves far better than any man his size has a right to. He as a rather odd build that is gut-heavy but he uses that odd shape well. He reminds me a lot of Sapp and Ratliff. Two guys who get off the ball so well and destroy plays.

If I picked first I take Fairley. 2nd I take Peterson. Those guys have walk in Pro Bowl level NFL talent IMHO.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

the problem with the comparison is it is just numbers till you put meaning to them...by that I mean how many times was Suh doubled team compared to Fairley...were there any future nfl players they were going up against and at what talent level...backup, starter, probowler... etc... but just from watching with my own eyes I would say Suh was better and it wasn't a hard decision for me.

You also have to consider that Fairley only played two years in the SEC, of which his 1st year was not very spectacular. Suh played 4 years in the Big 12.

The point has been brought up that Fairley played in the SEC which apparently has better OL talent. I don't know if that point can be proven or not but we can look at who was taken where in the draft these past two years from the SEC on the OL and who has been taken where from the Big 12 these past 4 years.

SEC
John Jerry OG Miss. 3rd Rd 9th Pick Miami
Mike Johnson OG Bama 3rd Rd 34th Pick Falcons
Jacques McClendon OG Tenn 4th Rd 31st pick Colts
Maurkice Pouncy C Florida 1st Rd 18th Pick Steelers



Selvish Capers OT West Virginia 7th Round Commanders 2010 Draft (Auburn Played WV in 2009)


2011 Projected SEC or teams on schedule NFL Draft Players:

Mike Pouncy G Florida
Clint Boling G Georgia
Ray Dominguez G Arkansas
James Carpenter OT Bama
Marcus Gilbert OT Florida
DeMarcus Love OT Arkansas
Joseph Barksdale OT LSU
Chris Hairston OT Clemson



Big 12:

Trent Williams OT Oklahoma 1st Rd 4th Pick Commanders
Russell Okung OT OkSt. 1st Rd 6th Pick Seattle
Jason Smith OT Baylor 1st Rd 2nd Pick Rams
Phil Loadholt Oklahoma 2nd Rd 22nd Pick Vikings
Colin Brown Missouri 5th Rd 3rd Pick Chiefs
Duke Robinson OT Oklahoma 5th Rd 27th Pick Carolina
Anthony Collins OT Kansas 4th Rd 13th Pick Cincy
Tony Hills OT Texas 4th Rd 31st Pick Pittsburgh
Corey Clark OT TAM 7th Rd 27th Pick Chargers
Justin Blaylock OT Texas 2nd Rd, 7th Pick Falcons
Corey Hilliard OT OkSt. 6th Rd 35th Pick Patriots
Johnathan Scott OT Texas 5th Rd 8th Pick Detoit
Jeromey Clary OT KSt. 6th Rd 18th Pick Chargers
Charlie Johnson OT OkSt. 6th Rd 30th Pick Colts
JD Walton C Baylor 3rd Rd 16th Pick Denver
Cody Wallace C TAM 4th Rd 8th Pick 49ers
Chris Chester C Oklahoma 2nd Rd, 24th Pick Ravens
EJ Whitely C Texas Tech 7th Rd 16th Pick Cowboys
Louis Vasquez OG Texas Tech 3rd Rd 14th Pick Chargers
Manny Ramirez OG Texas Tech 4th Rd 18th Pick Lions
Kasey Studdard OG Texas 6th Rd 9th Pick Texans
Davin Joseph OG Oklahoma 1st Rd 23rd Pick Bucs
Tony Palmer OG Missouri 7th Rd 35th Pick Rams

Teams Nebraska Played outside of the Big 12:

Mike Iupoti OG Idaho 1st Rd 17th Pick 49ers
Duane Brown OT VTech 1st Rd 26th Pick Texans
Barry Richardson OT Clemson 6th Rd 4th Pick Chiefs
Charles Brown OT USC 2nd Rd 32 pick Saints
Sam Baker OT USC 1st Rd, 21st Pick Falcons
Winston Justice OT USC 2nd Rd 7th Pick Eagles
Chilo Rachel G USC 2nd Rd 8th Pick 49ers
Deuce Lutui G USC 2nd Rd 9th Pick Phoenix
Ryan Kalil C USC 2nd Rd 27th Pick Carolina


If I have missed anybody, please feel free to add. As far as I can tell, these are the players that each Suh and Fairley have faced while at Nebraska and Auburn respectively.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

As a prospect on tape for their final collegiate seasons they are very similar IMHO.

I think Fairley has the BEST tape of this class. I saw him play 4 or 5 entire games and he dominated each game. He didn't just play well, he dominated. That was very Suh-like.

Now as you take everything into account Suh was more consistent, had a better work ethic, had a better family situation, was a model citizen.... it is a big edge to Suh. But Fairley is Warren Sappesque. He moves far better than any man his size has a right to. He as a rather odd build that is gut-heavy but he uses that odd shape well. He reminds me a lot of Sapp and Ratliff. Two guys who get off the ball so well and destroy plays.

If I picked first I take Fairley. 2nd I take Peterson. Those guys have walk in Pro Bowl level NFL talent IMHO.

I will tell you that I probably covet Fairley more then any other player in this draft as well. I just think he's head and shoulders above any other player. I think he could provide, from the DE spot, the pass rush we need to provide opposite Ware. That would allow us to keep Spencer at OLB and really focus on stopping the Run and covering his zone in the passing game. I think he is unique as a player and could be used in much the same way Baltimore and Denver used to use Trevor Pryce.

I even wonder if he could be used at a LB. His mobility, for a man his size is extraordinary.

I do not believe he is as good as Suh is but he is very, very good and I think a guy like Ryan could use him to create a dominating defensive front 7 for us. That is just my opinion.

 

[NeonDeion21]

I will tell you that I probably covet Fairley more then any other player in this draft as well. I just think he's head and shoulders above any other player. I think he could provide, from the DE spot, the pass rush we need to provide opposite Ware. That would allow us to keep Spencer at OLB and really focus on stopping the Run and covering his zone in the passing game. I think he is unique as a player and could be used in much the same way Baltimore and Denver used to use Trevor Pryce.

I even wonder if he could be used at a LB. His mobility, for a man his size is extraordinary.

I do not believe he is as good as Suh is but he is very, very good and I think a guy like Ryan could use him to create a dominating defensive front 7 for us. That is just my opinion.

One more question. Do you view Fairly's "dirty play" as a negative? This seems to be one reason he is falling on some draft boards. I actually believe this is improves his value for this team. Our defense lacks an intimater on defense and we haven't had one since Roy Williams in his first few years in the league.

 

[DFWJC]

ABQ
You point about the OLs in the SEC and Big 12 is valid.

What sets the SEC apart is not it's OLineman.

Mostly it is the defenses in the SEC that make those teams dominant. Also, the offensive skill guys are pretty good too, but it's mostly those big athletic dudes on defense.

My guess is that the SEC OLineman are on par with the the other big conferences.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

One more question. Do you view Fairly's "dirty play" as a negative? This seems to be one reason he is falling on some draft boards. I actually believe this is improves his value for this team. Our defense lacks an intimater on defense and we haven't had one since Roy Williams in his first few years in the league.

No, I don't necessarily view it as a negative. If the young man is intelligent and has discipline, then you can deal with this. There are a lot of nasty guys in the NFL but there are not a lot of nasty guys who are 300+lbs and move like an OLB. He can't be a player who just tries to end careers, especially QBs careers but there is still room in the NFL for players who have a mean streak.

Suh is a perfect example of that IMO. That is a player who scares QBs and that's a healthy thing for a defense to have IMO.