Northwestern Players File With NLRB (Union)

[joseephuss]

In Football perhaps. However, in Basketball, you see smaller schools beating traditional powers all the time. That will no longer be the case IMO.

I don't care about college basketball. And the truly small schools really don't beat traditional powers all the time. It may seem that way because there are middle tier teams that beat the big boys, but the small schools don't. There are 351 D1 basketball schools. I don't see all 351 being competitive. The tournament makes up less than 20% of the total number of college teams and of those 64 teams(65 or whatever it is now) we all know that less than half those teams have true chances of winning it all. Basketball could easily be thinned out as well and divided into a super league and a lesser league. And again I don't care what basketball does. Me football fan.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

What I suspect will happen is that the major conferences and universities will split off from what we see today in D1. So, the ACC, the Big 10, Big 12, PAC 16 and SEC will adopt this thing and will create another governing body. You may see another conference join the Power 5, perhaps the Big East or Mountain West, you will probably also see a few high profile teams, such as Notre Damn and BYU join one of these confrences and become part of this process but that's it. The rest, I would not be surprised to see just get rid of athletics. It's going to become a huge drag on their budgets and I can't see them offsetting those things any more then they already have.

They will simply get back to the academics and be done with athletics, which will be very popular with some in academia.

The real question is, can Unions stop Universities from simply firing athletes? Basically, by unionizing, you are becoming an employee, I would think. Once that happens, what is to prevent Universities from simply going out and hiring new players? What about Right To Work States? I don't see how you can force a closed shop approach in any of those states. Basically, All of the SEC, All of the Big 12 and half of the ACC are Right to Work States. If the Unions can't make it mandatory for all Athletes to be in the Union, then I don't believe it will work.

Basically, what you will have is a large pool of Athletes that are no longer attending Universities that will be providing Athletic Scholarships just sitting around. A perfect labor force to replace the existing employees.

IDK, I just don't see this going anywhere good.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't care about college basketball. And the truly small schools really don't beat traditional powers all the time. It may seem that way because there are middle tier teams that beat the big boys, but the small schools don't. There are 351 D1 basketball schools. I don't see all 351 being competitive. The tournament makes up less than 20% of the total number of college teams and of those 64 teams(65 or whatever it is now) we all know that less than half those teams have true chances of winning it all. Basketball could easily be thinned out as well and divided into a super league and a lesser league. And again I don't care what basketball does. Me football fan.

This is not about winning it all. This is about money and the ability to continue to offer athletic programs. While I understand that you don't care about Basketball, you are one guy on a FOOTBALL forum, there are plenty of people who do care about other sports.

As to your point of making up one Super League and one lesser league, why would any University want to join a lesser league if the sports become Unionized?

 

[joseephuss]

This is not about winning it all. This is about money and the ability to continue to offer athletic programs. While I understand that you don't care about Basketball, you are one guy on a FOOTBALL forum. There are plenty of people who do care about other sports.

As to your point of making up one Super League and one lesser league, why would any University want to join a lesser league if the sports become Unionized?

They wouldn't. They would just have no choice. It is about money. Not only making money of course, but the money you put into it. Some schools can afford to join a Super League and other can't and therefore would be stuck joining a lesser league or disappearing altogether. We've seen it before. Harvard and Yale and to a lesser extent Army and Navy used to be bigger players in college football. As things evolved they got left behind somewhat. We've seen similar things in pro sports. A few teams from the old AAFC could afford to get folded into the NFL while others weren't financially viable to keep up. Just the nature of things.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

They wouldn't. They would just have no choice. It is about money. Not only making money of course, but the money you put into it. Some schools can afford to join a Super League and other can't and therefore would be stuck joining a lesser league or disappearing altogether. We've seen it before. Harvard and Yale and to a lesser extent Army and Navy used to be bigger players in college football. As things evolved they got left behind somewhat. We've seen similar things in pro sports. A few teams from the old AAFC could afford to get folded into the NFL while others weren't financially viable to keep up. Just the nature of things.

That's true, we have seen it before but not because of Financial reasons. In the case of Harvard and Ivey League in general, it is academical and because of Army and Navy it is because Sports do not overide the importance of the Military Objectives and Missions so it limits the athletes they can recruit. This is different. Pro's are a completely different subject and unrelated because they are employees. That example has little to no bearing on the subject presently.

What we are talking about here is the elimination of approximately 52% of all FBS schools, as well as eliminating all Division I/II and III athletic programs.

 

[joseephuss]

That is my point, sports do not over ride the academies or Ivy leagues other objectives. They will spend some money on sports, but to a limit. Other schools(Alabama, Texas, ND, USC, etc.) have a much higher upper limit on what they are willing to spend. Sure the numerous rich alums of Harvard or Yale could subsidize quite a bit for their schools football programs, but they don't want to. That limits how successful they can be and how high they will climb. That is a financial reason. Other schools and programs don't have that option. They may have a desire to play with big boys, but just can't afford to do so. They have fallen behind already and will continue to do so whether a union is formed or not. And the pro aspect is not unrelated because if a union is formed then these college athletes will basically be considered employees or contractors.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That is my point, sports do not over ride the academies or Ivy leagues other objectives. They will spend some money on sports, but to a limit. Other schools(Alabama, Texas, ND, USC, etc.) have a much higher upper limit on what they are willing to spend. Sure the numerous rich alums of Harvard or Yale could subsidize quite a bit for their schools football programs, but they don't want to. That limits how successful they can be and how high they will climb. That is a financial reason. Other schools and programs don't have that option. They may have a desire to play with big boys, but just can't afford to do so. They have fallen behind already and will continue to do so whether a union is formed or not. And the pro aspect is not unrelated because if a union is formed then these college athletes will basically be considered employees or contractors.

But that's a conscious and concerted decision on behalf of those Establishments. What we are talking about now forced upon the rest of these schools, through no means of their own. That's a different thing.

On the subject of Pros, yes, it is a different thing. As I said earlier, "Pro's are a completely different subject and unrelated because they are employees. That example has little to no bearing on the subject presently."

Unitl such time as this idea of unionization comes to fruition, the subject of Professionals and who they opperate, are unrealated.

 

[joseephuss]

But that's a conscious and concerted decision on behalf of those Establishments. What we are talking about now forced upon the rest of these schools, through no means of their own. That's a different thing.

On the subject of Pros, yes, it is a different thing. As I said earlier, "Pro's are a completely different subject and unrelated because they are employees. That example has little to no bearing on the subject presently."

Unitl such time as this idea of unionization comes to fruition, the subject of Professionals and who they opperate, are unrealated.

This discussion all began with what happens if they do form a union. That is how you started the thread. If step A happens, then step B will occur. My comparisons are based on step A(them forming a union) occurring. Of course that changes if it doesn't although I still think college football would be better off if they lost a bunch of lesser programs.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This discussion all began with what happens if they do form a union. That is how you started the thread. If step A happens, then step B will occur. My comparisons are based on step A(them forming a union) occurring. Of course that changes if it doesn't although I still think college football would be better off if they lost a bunch of lesser programs.

Fair enough. However, later in the discussion, I specifically made note of the fact that this was different then the Pros and their unions, not only because of the unions in question but also because the Pro's are just that, they are Pro's and the College Athletes are not. They will become Pro's, IMO, if they join a Union but right here, right now, it's unrelated. In fact, even if they do form a union, it will not be like the situation in Professional Sports.

 

[joseephuss]

Fair enough. However, later in the discussion, I specifically made note of the fact that this was different then the Pros and their unions, not only because of the unions in question but also because the Pro's are just that, they are Pro's and the College Athletes are not. They will become Pro's, IMO, if they join a Union but right here, right now, it's unrelated. In fact, even if they do form a union, it will not be like the situation in Professional Sports.

Yes, it will. No, but there will be some similarities. It is definitely going to get interesting.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yes, it will. No, but there will be some similarities. It is definitely going to get interesting.

There will be one major difference, IMO. In Professional Athletics, the union agreement has, by and large, served to benefit the players monetarily and it has also served to increase the membership, for the most part.

This agreement, with the Universities will serve to do just the opposite IMO. There are a lot of athletes who will no longer be athletes and who will no longer be receiving educations because of athletics, IMO. I wonder how much good advice has been provided and actual thought has been put into this by the athletes?