Off season Random questions..

[coult44]

1) What are the important dates to be aware of until the season begins?

2) Would you rather see Hannah step up and become the #2 TE, or Escobar?

3) We made what could be a very good pickup last week on the DL. Do you think there will be any potentially good to great guys we might snag before the season starts on the OL? If our O-LINE could find a way to step up, our offense could be unstoppable.

4) Once again my off season optimism has began to set in. I don't think we are as bad as everyone is saying and even I believed just a couple months ago. We are stacked at skill positions on offense, and if GOD could smile on the health of our defense this year we are solid everywhere except safety. I'm not too big on unproven talent like a lot of you are. We have NOBODY at S that has proven anything? Why does the organization continue to leave that spot unaddressed?

I am a perfect example of the fan JJ loves. Every year about this time, I start to be optimistic and get excited about the upcoming season...I spend a ton of money during the season and threaten never to do it again at the end of the year...that's a head scratcher, I know!!!

 

[RS12]

2) Would you rather see Hannah step up and become the #2 TE, or Escobar?

I really dont see that happening unless Escobar falls on his face. You dont invest a 2nd in the guy and not get him on the field as much as possible. Hanna will still play and the Cowboys actually wanted to trade back in the 7th for DC Jefferson. I think they go four TE and no FB.

 

[xwalker]

1) What are the important dates to be aware of until the season begins?

OTAs, June 1st, Training Camp

I think the OTA dates are posted here somewhere. I think the 1st one is this week.

2) Would you rather see Hannah step up and become the #2 TE, or Escobar?

Both. They are different types of players that present different types of match-ups for defenses. It's like comparing WRs Harris and T. Williams. One is a slot WR and the other is an outside speed/size WR.

3) We made what could be a very good pickup last week on the DL. Do you think there will be any potentially good to great guys we might snag before the season starts on the OL? If our O-LINE could find a way to step up, our offense could be unstoppable.

It seems unlikely at this point. Brandon Moore (OG, Jets) is the player that would make the most sense of any remaining free agents. He played 4 years in Callahan's blocking scheme.

4) Once again my off season optimism has began to set in. I don't think we are as bad as everyone is saying and even I believed just a couple months ago. We are stacked at skill positions on offense, and if GOD could smile on the health of our defense this year we are solid everywhere except safety. I'm not too big on unproven talent like a lot of you are. We have NOBODY at S that has proven anything? Why does the organization continue to leave that spot unaddressed?

They seem really confident in both Matt Johnson and Barry Church. Will Allen appears to be a reliable if unspectacular player. Wilcox was reported to be one of their favorites prior to the draft. Sterling Moore appears to have both CB and Safety ability. I know that Rob Ryan raved about him and his position flexibility last year. RR is gone but the DB coach is the same.

I am a perfect example of the fan JJ loves. Every year about this time, I start to be optimistic and get excited about the upcoming season...I spend a ton of money during the season and threaten never to do it again at the end of the year...that's a head scratcher, I know!!!

That's better than being a fair-weather fan.

It would be great if they win; however, I enjoy studying the process (draft, training camp, etc..) even when the team is not great.

 

[Idgit]

...It would be great if they win; however, I enjoy studying the process (draft, training camp, etc..) even when the team is not great.

I do, too.

I wonder if that's what separates those of us who are more even-tempered towards the team from those of us who consider ourselves more realistic. I might be a lot less patient with the results, too, if I didn't enjoy the whole process so much.

 

[FiveRings]

I'd like to take this opportunity to pose a question I had, but didn't think was worthy of thread.

When was the last time we drafted a player that didn't make the team, or the practice squad that year? I suppose there could be some circumstances with injuries,trades etc. but basically I would like to know when the last time we drafted a player,and cut him.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I'd like to take this opportunity to pose a question I had, but didn't think was worthy of thread.

When was the last time we drafted a player that didn't make the team, or the practice squad that year? I suppose there could be some circumstances with injuries,trades etc. but basically I would like to know when the last time we drafted a player,and cut him.

5th rd pick, Josh Thomas?

Erik Walden from 2008

Then there was another guy, Deangelo Smith, I think. Got beat in a foot race by David Beuhler.

That's three off the top of my head.

 

[Picksix]

5th rd pick, Josh Thomas?

Erik Walden from 2008

Then there was another guy, Deangelo Smith, I think. Got beat in a foot race by David Beuhler.

That's three off the top of my head.

Jamar Wall from the (I think) 2010 draft.

 

[honyock]

5th rd pick, Josh Thomas?

Erik Walden from 2008

Then there was another guy, Deangelo Smith, I think. Got beat in a foot race by David Beuhler.

That's three off the top of my head.

Thomas was waived with the intention of sneaking him onto the practice squad. The coaches reportedly liked him a lot but he was caught in a numbers game as a rookie, and they were apparently really disappointed when Carolina claimed him. He had a good season for the Panthers last year in his second year and the last word I read was that he's got a strong shot to be their third corner this year.

 

[Eskimo]

2. I don't really care if Hanna is better than Escobar. I mostly care that we run a balanced offense out of the 12 personnel and utilize both TEs as both blockers and receivers. That is the key for the formation to work really well and create mismatches. When they try to match size they lose on speed and coverage. When they try to match our receivers with coverage players then we have an advantage running the ball at them.

I'd really love if all 3 can co-exist on the field at the same time and do a reasonable job blocking while also being good receivers. Then that becomes a huge matchup nightmare to try and account for Hanna's speed and Witten and Escobar's length. You also have to help out with Dez lined up wide or get exposed deep.

3. I really doubt we are going to add another OL. I think the FO thinks they have enough with Livings, Costa and Bernadeau healthy plus TFred on the interior. I also think the FO thinks one of Free or Parnell or both will play a quality RT for us this year. They probably have hopes still for guys like Killer, Leary, Weems and maybe even Arkin and want to leave depth positions for them to fill the roster. There are only so many snaps to go around in TC and preseason.

I do wish they sign Moore and dump Livings since they are convinced Benadeau was the better player last year. He was also the player who has more positional flex, is younger and was affected pretty majorly in the first half of the season from his hip and knee surgeries in the offseason that cost him all of OTA, TC and most of the preseason.

4. As for Safety I am pretty sure Church is going to be okay so long as he has recovered from his surgery. I imagine the docs have given the team their prognosis and he has been pencilled in as a starter.

As for the other position, IDK. They have Matt Johnson pencilled in there but I don't believe in this kid's durability. Behind him you have Will Allen who at least brings experience to the fold. Kiffen seems to think so long as you give him young and instinctive players at Safety that's all he needs for his defense and that is why they were okay to go for the greener Wilcox in the draft who has a very high ceiling but is far less of a sure thing than several other prospects at Safety who were available in the middle part of the 3rd round. Now Kiffen has a resume deserving of not being second-guessed and there are a lot of positives about Wilcox but I don't believe he will be ready to contribute much to the base defense in 2013. I actually have higher hopes on Jakar Hamilton, the UDFA, of being able to contribute this year.

Overall I think there are enough decent prospects in the mix right now that we should have some capable starters by 2014 but I suspect we will be seeing a lot of Church and Will Allen this year and that leaves a lot to be desired in terms of the range we will have back there.

The one plus side about the new scheme is that all the LBs will now be pretty good in coverage. Most of last year we only had 1 LB back there who was any good (Carter). That should make the Safeties job a bit easier.

I do hope the position won't hold us hostage again this season but I think that is a distinct possibility again.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Thomas was waived with the intention of sneaking him onto the practice squad. The coaches reportedly liked him a lot but he was caught in a numbers game as a rookie, and they were apparently really disappointed when Carolina claimed him. He had a good season for the Panthers last year in his second year and the last word I read was that he's got a strong shot to be their third corner this year.

I believe Thomas and Walden were two calculated cuts that the team got burnt on.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Danny Coale was cut and placed on the PS just last season.

 

[xwalker]

Jimmy cut a 3rd rounder in 1993.

 

[Eskimo]

Jimmy cut a 3rd rounder in 1993.

Yes, and he shouldn't have done it. The guy he cut, James Brown, was good enough to start for about 7 seasons in this league. At the very least he was good depth and a trading chip. I guess at that time they were so deep that they didn't care much about such a player but you always have to try and get a return for a young, quality player.

Jimmy also did it in 1989 with Rondy Weston who only played a couple years in the league as a DT.

Bill Parcells sort of released Skyler Green as a punt returner and 4th round pick back in 2004.

In 1983 we ended up drafting Michael Walter and I think he was cut in his second year for some reason and went to the 49ers. He was an important player for them for close to a decade.

If you want to know why Tom Landry lost it as a coach look at these consecutive 1st round choices made starting in 1979:

Larry Bethea
Robert Shaw
No pick
Howard Richards
Rod Hill
Jim Jeffcoat
Billy Cannon
Kevin Brooks
Mike Sherrard
Danny Noonan

So over 9 seasons we got almost no good consistent production of our first round picks outside of Jim Jeffcoat.

Now those 9 years of futility were followed by the next 3 first round picks:

Michael Irvin
Troy Aikman
Emmitt Smith

So 9 years of futility followed by 3 HOFers picked back-to-back-to-back in the next 3 drafts.

 

[AsthmaField]

Jimmy cut a 3rd rounder in 1993.

Johnson also cut 2nd rounder Jimmy Smith after 2 years on the team. Of course he went on to become Jacksonville's all time leading receiver.

His time in Dallas was a mess though because he broke his leg as a rookie and then in training camp in his second season he had his appendix rupture. After his appendix surgery he had such a bad infection that it became life threatening. Smith was on IR most of his time in Dallas and then, after year 2, Jimmy cut him. I guess the team was so loaded that there was no real reason to try to stick with the guy and ride out his run of bad luck.

I always wished they would have stuck with him though and that he was the 2nd WR opposite Irvin because he was a good one. He woulda been very dangerous across from Michael.

 

[AsthmaField]

If you want to know why Tom Landry lost it as a coach look at these consecutive 1st round choices made starting in 1979:

Larry Bethea
Robert Shaw
No pick
Howard Richards
Rod Hill
Jim Jeffcoat
Billy Cannon
Kevin Brooks
Mike Sherrard
Danny Noonan

So over 9 seasons we got almost no good consistent production of our first round picks outside of Jim Jeffcoat.

That is some bad drafting right there... along with some bad luck (Sherrard) of course.

Luck always plays a big role in draft failures or successes. Jimmy had his share of good luck with personnel in the early 90's.

When he walked into the Cowboys job in 1989 he already had Michael Irvin on board and was sitting there with the first overall pick in the draft with Aikman staring him in the face. Almost anyone would have taken Troy with that first pick, so two-thirds of the triplets were accounted for really without Johnson doing it.

Emmitt of course was a great pick, but Jimmy had tried like heck to trade up with Cincinnati in order to draft James Francis, an OLB/DE from Baylor. The trade fell through though, so Dallas didn't get Francis.

Jimmy then tried to trade up with New England so he could draft Ray Agnew, DT out of N. Carolina State. That didn't work out either, so he was stuck with the 21st pick still. When he saw Emmitt sliding and a RB needy Falcons team sitting at pick 20, he decided to try to move up to the 17th pick owned by Pittsburgh.

Luckily, Pittsburgh agreed and Johnson took Smith even though he had signed Terrence Flagler in the offseason in an effort to shore up Dallas' bottom-of-the-barrel running game.

The rest, of course, is history. Dallas got the NFL's all-time leading rusher and Atlanta, miffed about missing out on Emmitt, took Steve Broussard who went on to become... well, not much.

So, as you can see, Jimmy Johnson was very lucky to have any of the "triplets" on his team, which essentially was the main reason that Dallas Team became the team of the 90's and won 3 out of 4 superbowls in the early to mid 90's.

He walked into Irvin and Aikman, and tried like hell to draft someone besides Emmitt.

Jimmy made plenty of mistakes in drafting too. Moving up to take Rocket Ismail before anyone was sure if he'd go to Canada and having to take Russell Maryland at first overall. Drafting and then trading away Steve Wisnewski instead of keeping him. Using Dallas' first round pick to take Steve Walsh in the supplemental draft right after taking Aikman. Little did he know, that pick became the first overall selection in the 1990 draft. Jimmy did get picks back when he traded Walsh, but missing out on the first overall was a big time mistake. Johnson just had so many picks from the H Walker trade that he could absorb those mistakes.

Still, Jimmy drafted well and he had such knowledge of the guys coming out of college for the first couple of years, and he had such a network of people he could trust in college coaching circles, that he found some really good players. Players that fit his system to a tee.

His NFL coaching career might be looked at completely differently had just a few things changed. Things that very easily could have and almost did happen:

*If Landry would have taken someone else besides Irvin in the 1988 draft. They reportedly liked Aaron Cox WR from Arizona State a lot too, and that could have been the pick.
*Had Landry, in his last game as coach of the Cowboys beaten Green Bay in 1988, Jimmy would have had the second pick in the 1989 draft. At that time Tony Mandarich was the consensus second pick overall and likely who Dallas would have ended up with had Green Bay taken Aikman.
*Had Cincy agreed to the trade Jimmy wanted in 1990, The Cowboys would have ended up with DE Ron Francis instead of Emmitt.

So, in 1990, Dallas could have had Aaron Cox at WR, Tony Madarich at OT, and Ron Francis at DE, instead of Michael, Troy, and Emmitt.

What a difference that would have made in that team... and really, it could have very easily happened. VERY easily.

Sorry, I kind of went off on a tangent here... but Johnson wasn't the great talent evaluator that so many people think he was.

 

[xwalker]

Yes, and he shouldn't have done it. The guy he cut, James Brown, was good enough to start for about 7 seasons in this league. At the very least he was good depth and a trading chip. I guess at that time they were so deep that they didn't care much about such a player but you always have to try and get a return for a young, quality player.

Actually, I was referring to Mike Middleton in 1993. I had forgotten about James Brown in 1992.

That makes 3, 3rd round picks that were cut by Jimmy as rookies.

 

[xwalker]

Johnson also cut 2nd rounder Jimmy Smith after 2 years on the team. Of course he went on to become Jacksonville's all time leading receiver.

That was a Jerry cut. Jerry got irritated about paying a player for 2 years that didn't play. Smith was on IR in 1993 and Jimmy was gone after the 1993 season. I think this mistake might be one of the reasons that Jerry then started holding on to players too long.

 

[AsthmaField]

That was a Jerry cut. Jerry got irritated about paying a player for 2 years that didn't play. Smith was on IR in 1993 and Jimmy was gone after the 1993 season. I think this mistake might be one of the reasons that Jerry then started holding on to players too long.

I guess you're right based on the timing... but I was thinking that Jimmy was the one who wanted to get rid of Smith.

Maybe Johnson just said something that stuck in my head and made me think he wanted Smith gone.

Either way, I wish they would have hung on to him!

 

[xwalker]

Luck always plays a big role in draft failures or successes. Jimmy had his share of good luck with personnel in the early 90's.

You could make the case that a few instances of bad luck/decisions really cost the Cowboys in the years after Jimmy.

As you mentioned, cutting Jimmy Smith was bad, but many teams give up on players in that situation.

Erik Williams car accident probably cost the Cowboys a trip to the Super Bowl in 1994.

Charles Haley, Jay Novacek and David LeFleur had back injuries that ended their careers.

Irvin's character issues and Chan Gailey caused the Cowboys to pass on drafting Randy Moss.

Not drafting Randy Moss resulted in Jerry trading 2, 1st round picks for Joey Galloway who then tore his knee up before getting much chance to play with Aikman.

Aikman and Irving both had freakish career ending type injuries (spine, concussions).

If a few of the above had gone differently, the post Jimmy years might have been much more successful.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

There be nothing wrong with optimism. If you also remain grounded in reality.

I have a lot of concern with not only our safeties but with a defensive line that will rely on overrated players such as Hatcher and Ratliff.
Seriously, after we mention Ware and lee, the rest of the D line line is mediocre.

I also believe that Romo is destined to have another brilliant year and stats but with no playoff games with which to show his skills.

The O line remains a problem.

But, still, we seem to half fewer holes than other teams, so for that I remain optimistic. Not Super Bowl optimistic but cautiously optimistic. If we can stay healthier than last year and if Garrett shows better play making decisions and Romo does not half to run as much, we have a chance.