Offense has to become more successful against shell coverage!

Cowboyny said:
-Must be able to run the football, especially against the light box. This will force teams to get out of that deep shell.
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This is all you need to post we all know how this works and they're going to blame the quarterback it's not the quarterback you can also say you shouldn't even be blaming the separation on the wide receivers themselves when you can clutter up make it like a minefield out there being able to use almost your entire defensive staff to in coverage and still get pressure and stop the run with a light box that's terrible I mean absolutely has to change.

I believe the only reason they were successful later in the year running the football with Rico not just removing Zach Martin they were a little more physical on the offensive line they had to bring in the tight ends just to help stop what they should have stopped with just the normal line and normal blocking so therefore they weren't running out in coverage so that's why a little bit of the problem with our tight end production besides injury was because of that they were all brought in so they can at least be effective at running the football but now you took most of the offense away....

So yeah it's kind of obvious if you can't be physical up front and run the football without constant help from your tight ends and if you can't block a light box straight up that's a problem it's also a problem blaming the quarterback for not being able to handle zone coverage or similar to zone coverage you call it shell coverage but it's not his fault the guys aren't getting open because of excessive amounts of clutter out there that's why it was really easy that's the other thing was our old offensive coordinator with the play calls with the routes were almost in similar areas how many times did we see another players defensive back break off cut under and get a ball he should have never been into play he literally saw it coming and broke off his own guy either broke up the pass or got an interception this happened so often I could still remember it like it's happening right in front of me I had PTSD

And again you blame the quarterback for having to be forced to play nothing but a shell maximum zone coverage and still have your guys not getting open no run game nothing physical up front blame him for three announce and then the defense allegedly gets tired and everything comes back to the quarterback no how about we have a legitimate run game something that's a threat and you don't have to use everyone to come in and block 5 men!!!..lol.
 
nalam said:
To an extent his fault also, he gets baited and throws ints, as well as struggle tomake good reads when they show something in pre snap and align (zone) differently post snap ( but even elite qBs cant beat that consistently ) He sometimes lose patience and tries beyond his capabilities and gets picked or didnt have a WR who could take advantage of double coverage against CD.
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That's just about every quarterback in any league eventually in a game where nothing's open you don't have a run game you have zero support you have to try to make something happen that's not getting impatient like it's like you can't handle it you literally have to trust that you can throw when someone's covered and they'll win a 50 50 ball so no it's not Prescott's fault what do you want to take a knee and just kick the ball back to the other team and then have our defense not stop them and oh that's right that's exactly what the Green Bay game look like it wouldn't have mattered having a couple of those plays back it just wouldn't have..

I mean I see what you're saying in some games you could punt you could take a knee you could just like throw the ball out of balance but at some point in the game you have to try to make something happen and it's because of the lack of a run game the lack of separation from the receivers you're getting no physicality up front from your offensive line you get right a quarterback is going to get impatient and throw the football they all do they're just trying to make something happen before the time runs out sometimes it works right I've seen it you throw a ball to a covered guy and he wins and he gets the ball or at least he knocks it down but I've also seen Prescott being blamed when guys go off script and don't run the right play call the route it happens or you get a guy interfered with or you have a defensive back that was covering somebody else so everybody was single covered and he throws the football the routes were so close together that the other players defensive back breaks off goes underneath and takes the all you know these all have stories we all watch them but blaming the quarterback when he's trying to make something happen or for scheme issues guys are not open not getting open the routes are too close together they're all kinds of problems..

Yes I agree prescott has forced the ball but so is most quarterbacks I've watched I mean you realize Matthew Stafford led the league in interceptions he threw two interceptions in the Super Bowl and guess what their team was good enough to win a Super Bowl despite him not being perfect I watched Troy force balls as well and he didn't even need to do it with the run game they had but a lot of quarterbacks that think their arm is good enough to think their players are throwing to are better than the guys that are covering them they just throw it up that's what they do but our quarterbacks not being bailed out he's not being helped by our coaches our special teams he's not being helped by the defense he makes a mistake it gets exposed because it doesn't get covered up....

I watched Tom Brady in the Tampa Bay Super Bowl year throw three interceptions in the NFC Championship game guess what they didn't lose that game they won that game how'd that happen oh that's right his team helped him win they had a better team the whole team top to bottom...

You remember to start that year prescott went toe to toe with Tom Brady and guess what the defense just never can make a stop when he needed to they lost that game at a high scoring game first game of the year everyone just sees the loss I saw Prescott playing his **** off and then losing so no matter what he's going to be blamed..
 
blueblood70 said:
This is all you need to post we all know how this works and they're going to blame the quarterback it's not the quarterback you can also say you shouldn't even be blaming the separation on the wide receivers themselves when you can clutter up make it like a minefield out there being able to use almost your entire defensive staff to in coverage and still get pressure and stop the run with a light box that's terrible I mean absolutely has to change.

I believe the only reason they were successful later in the year running the football with Rico not just removing Zach Martin they were a little more physical on the offensive line they had to bring in the tight ends just to help stop what they should have stopped with just the normal line and normal blocking so therefore they weren't running out in coverage so that's why a little bit of the problem with our tight end production besides injury was because of that they were all brought in so they can at least be effective at running the football but now you took most of the offense away....

So yeah it's kind of obvious if you can't be physical up front and run the football without constant help from your tight ends and if you can't block a light box straight up that's a problem it's also a problem blaming the quarterback for not being able to handle zone coverage or similar to zone coverage you call it shell coverage but it's not his fault the guys aren't getting open because of excessive amounts of clutter out there that's why it was really easy that's the other thing was our old offensive coordinator with the play calls with the routes were almost in similar areas how many times did we see another players defensive back break off cut under and get a ball he should have never been into play he literally saw it coming and broke off his own guy either broke up the pass or got an interception this happened so often I could still remember it like it's happening right in front of me I had PTSD

And again you blame the quarterback for having to be forced to play nothing but a shell maximum zone coverage and still have your guys not getting open no run game nothing physical up front blame him for three announce and then the defense allegedly gets tired and everything comes back to the quarterback no how about we have a legitimate run game something that's a threat and you don't have to use everyone to come in and block 5 men!!!..lol.
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Run and Pass blocking were both ranked 23rd in the NFL.
 
Chasing6 said:
Run and Pass blocking were both ranked 23rd in the NFL.
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I really don't care what they did in the regular season they were horrible in these clothes out games. END OF Story , moving on. There is no debate they were absolutely destroyed in any games against the defense that had a front 7 that can literally just do what the original posters talking about they literally stopped all over us ripped our soul out and there was not anything any quarterback could have done I don't understand how you don't get that we're all not talking about 17 games we're not talking about the occasional good game in the playoffs we're talking about the losses the losses by far we were nowhere near any of those numbers but if you're bragging about 23rd that's also sad...

So either you were flexing on being 23rd or you were a green being 23rd but either way people have to remember that I hear this argument all the time about how the offensive line wasn't that bad they were ranked you know 15th in the league and blocking I don't care where the rankings came from it came from the regular season but they were a horrible in all of our losses somehow they ended up getting higher rankings when they were beating up on inferior talent but this goes to just some of those games that we lost like against Denver and against the Saints last year you look at these games and they're just getting their **** whooped in the trenches it is that's where we're losing these games and you can add the front 7 on defense in our own offensive line to blocking or lack thereof by the running backs or the tight ends I mean just as a whole it doesn't matter anything they did the regular season doesn't matter about the superstar name on the back of their jerseys they didn't show up when it mattered most.

And yes that will affect the quarterback's numbers... Yes it will make the quarterback dudes some things he wishes he could take back trying to make plays when there's no plays to be made it happens sometimes you can't trust your defense you're supposed to punt and act like we had the Ravens defense like we had the Bears great defense like that's what we're supposed to expect out of our quarterback to say you know what our defense will get me the ball back right away now that's not what's going on that's not how the game started or ended in the Green Bay game and that happened a lot I don't care if the game was a 6 point loss or a 15 point loss it never was that close if people watched the game we were getting our butts kicked on every level or we're making all the mistakes all the penalties it just as bad...

There was a time where Romo and Prescott in a regular seasons had some great talent they did that same talent laid an egg in the biggest moments it happens it doesn't matter how great your players were or their regular season stats were it matters what they did when they were needed the most they failed as a team the most.

We are all sick of it that's for sure regardless of what points trying to be made from either debate from either side it's just been bad......
 
blueblood70 said:
I really don't care what they did in the regular season they were horrible in these clothes out games. END OF Story , moving on. There is no debate they were absolutely destroyed in any games against the defense that had a front 7 that can literally just do what the original posters talking about they literally stopped all over us ripped our soul out and there was not anything any quarterback could have done I don't understand how you don't get that we're all not talking about 17 games we're not talking about the occasional good game in the playoffs we're talking about the losses the losses by far we were nowhere near any of those numbers but if you're bragging about 23rd that's also sad...

So either you were flexing on being 23rd or you were a green being 23rd but either way people have to remember that I hear this argument all the time about how the offensive line wasn't that bad they were ranked you know 15th in the league and blocking I don't care where the rankings came from it came from the regular season but they were a horrible in all of our losses somehow they ended up getting higher rankings when they were beating up on inferior talent but this goes to just some of those games that we lost like against Denver and against the Saints last year you look at these games and they're just getting their **** whooped in the trenches it is that's where we're losing these games and you can add the front 7 on defense in our own offensive line to blocking or lack thereof by the running backs or the tight ends I mean just as a whole it doesn't matter anything they did the regular season doesn't matter about the superstar name on the back of their jerseys they didn't show up when it mattered most.

And yes that will affect the quarterback's numbers... Yes it will make the quarterback dudes some things he wishes he could take back trying to make plays when there's no plays to be made it happens sometimes you can't trust your defense you're supposed to punt and act like we had the Ravens defense like we had the Bears great defense like that's what we're supposed to expect out of our quarterback to say you know what our defense will get me the ball back right away now that's not what's going on that's not how the game started or ended in the Green Bay game and that happened a lot I don't care if the game was a 6 point loss or a 15 point loss it never was that close if people watched the game we were getting our butts kicked on every level or we're making all the mistakes all the penalties it just as bad...

There was a time where Romo and Prescott in a regular seasons had some great talent they did that same talent laid an egg in the biggest moments it happens it doesn't matter how great your players were or their regular season stats were it matters what they did when they were needed the most they failed as a team the most.

We are all sick of it that's for sure regardless of what points trying to be made from either debate from either side it's just been bad......
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Who is bragging about 23rd? 23rd is crap. No one wins in the playoffs with a 23rd ranked OLine and a 27th run defense, never mind even making the playoffs.

Good thing we added some FA's to fix the problem. Oops, I forgot we did not.
 
Chasing6 said:
Who is bragging about 23rd? 23rd is crap. No one wins in the playoffs with a 23rd ranked OLine and a 27th run defense, never mind even making the playoffs.

Good thing we added some FA's to fix the problem. Oops, I forgot we did not.
Click to expand...
Whatever it is that you think wasn't addressed you wait till the seasons over we can tell you what's addressed what they did is fire the entire staff and start over new schemes and yes there are new players both drafted and brought over on free agency just because you don't like them doesn't mean they're not going to work out.

This is the best scenario is to know that if we don't have that many injuries 2020 ,

2024 the only reason the Cowboys truly weren't successful and the rankings look poor was because of injuries I know it sounds like an excuse but it's the truth the San Francisco 49ers had the same problem and couldn't win games they picked ahead of us in the draft you can't lose that many key players especially two or 3 positions that you lost all three of your starters that's number one number two and number three are all lost and you're playing with a practice squad..

Just like after 2020 with very similar happenings lost a quarterback lost most of your starters 2021 through 2023 were very good years you're saying never mind the playoffs so we'll say they were very good years the rankings were probably a lot higher..

That's where I'm going with the in the playoffs we had a lot of positive things that happened in the regular season that didn't happen in the playoffs they just didn't show up I believe the Cowboys will get back on track this year and probably win at least 10 games get a wild card but then we get back to see what we do in the playoffs...
 
TheMarathonContinues said:
He didn’t go in the 4th because of arm talent lol….it was his foot work and mechanics being inconsistent and the dui. You guys and your revisionist history lol.
Click to expand...
Revisionist history? His draft write up specifically mentions accuracy on deep and intermediate throws. Yes, his mechanics and footwork were poor. But correcting those only helps so much. Ten years later, he still struggles with ball placement.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/dak-prescott/32005052-4528-5723-d1b2-96e92ebc1241
 
blueblood70 said:
Whatever it is that you think wasn't addressed you wait till the seasons over we can tell you what's addressed what they did is fire the entire staff and start over new schemes and yes there are new players both drafted and brought over on free agency just because you don't like them doesn't mean they're not going to work out.

This is the best scenario is to know that if we don't have that many injuries 2020 ,

2024 the only reason the Cowboys truly weren't successful and the rankings look poor was because of injuries I know it sounds like an excuse but it's the truth the San Francisco 49ers had the same problem and couldn't win games they picked ahead of us in the draft you can't lose that many key players especially two or 3 positions that you lost all three of your starters that's number one number two and number three are all lost and you're playing with a practice squad..

Just like after 2020 with very similar happenings lost a quarterback lost most of your starters 2021 through 2023 were very good years you're saying never mind the playoffs so we'll say they were very good years the rankings were probably a lot higher..

That's where I'm going with the in the playoffs we had a lot of positive things that happened in the regular season that didn't happen in the playoffs they just didn't show up I believe the Cowboys will get back on track this year and probably win at least 10 games get a wild card but then we get back to see what we do in the playoffs...
Click to expand...
So in 2023 we had a good running game and a good run D? I don't think we did, so it was not strictly injuries.
 
blueblood70 said:
This is all you need to post we all know how this works and they're going to blame the quarterback it's not the quarterback you can also say you shouldn't even be blaming the separation on the wide receivers themselves when you can clutter up make it like a minefield out there being able to use almost your entire defensive staff to in coverage and still get pressure and stop the run with a light box that's terrible I mean absolutely has to change.

I believe the only reason they were successful later in the year running the football with Rico not just removing Zach Martin they were a little more physical on the offensive line they had to bring in the tight ends just to help stop what they should have stopped with just the normal line and normal blocking so therefore they weren't running out in coverage so that's why a little bit of the problem with our tight end production besides injury was because of that they were all brought in so they can at least be effective at running the football but now you took most of the offense away....

So yeah it's kind of obvious if you can't be physical up front and run the football without constant help from your tight ends and if you can't block a light box straight up that's a problem it's also a problem blaming the quarterback for not being able to handle zone coverage or similar to zone coverage you call it shell coverage but it's not his fault the guys aren't getting open because of excessive amounts of clutter out there that's why it was really easy that's the other thing was our old offensive coordinator with the play calls with the routes were almost in similar areas how many times did we see another players defensive back break off cut under and get a ball he should have never been into play he literally saw it coming and broke off his own guy either broke up the pass or got an interception this happened so often I could still remember it like it's happening right in front of me I had PTSD

And again you blame the quarterback for having to be forced to play nothing but a shell maximum zone coverage and still have your guys not getting open no run game nothing physical up front blame him for three announce and then the defense allegedly gets tired and everything comes back to the quarterback no how about we have a legitimate run game something that's a threat and you don't have to use everyone to come in and block 5 men!!!..lol.
Click to expand...
Very easy to defend a one dimensional attack. Dowdle did finally give them balance, but they still weren’t able to run the football against the better teams. This has been the offseason focus by management. I am opportunistic that the run game will be better this yr and have defenses more off balanced
 
Cowboyny said:
Ever since that home loss to Fangio and the Denver Broncos a few seasons ago, teams have had success following the same blueprint, shell coverage against this offense:

-Teams started to play two deep safeties, to take away the deep, sideline passing plays.
-Zone coverage across the board and played extra men in coverage rather then sending the blitz.
-They forced the Dallas offense to drive the full length of the field and covert multiple times.

Why has this been so successful?

-They cannot run the football with any consistency and take advantage of the light box. Become one dimensional.
-With so many defenders in coverage, Dak is forced to hold the football longer and make tight, accurate throws.
-The offense cannot play clean, they make too many mental mistakes that are drive killers.

-Must be able to run the football, especially against the light box. This will force teams to get out of that deep shell.
-TE passes up the seem will loosen up the coverage on the sidelines.
-Add in a legitimate screen game and force teams to make tackles in space.
Click to expand...
Dallas hasn’t been able to run the ball in many years. Dallas hasn’t been able to stop the run in many years. Fits that and they’re off to the races.
 
Cowboyny said:
run the football better and take what is given to force the defense to adjust, then attack over the top.
Click to expand...
exactly. if they can stop the run with front 4 or 5, then they can drop 6 or 7 into coverage which makes passing very difficult. force them to move 6 or 7 into the box to stop the run and you can attack them like you said.
 
Whiskey Cowboy said:
I believe this offense will be successful. RB looks to be significantly upgraded, and the OL is built to maul defenses. Lamb, Pickens, Jarwin, Tolbert, Turpin, and Blue will be really difficult to account for in the passing game, so we should be in a position to force defenses to pick their poison, and feast on the weaknesses that they present. It all comes down to Dak and his ability to stay healthy.
Click to expand...
RBs are upgraded but is it a good group. Zeke sucked. Dowdle was average to below average despite his 1000 yards. we need to be good, reliable and make sure the other team has to account for it with additional defenders at the LOS. else running 7 yards on a 3rd and 9 is useless. defense will give that up all day
 
beware_d-ware said:
Most NFL offenses struggle against shell coverage, that's why the defenses are moving to it.

Running the ball actually plays into the defense's hands. Running produces less expected points and kills more game clock vs throwing deep passes. Defenses would much prefer to give up ten straight 5-yard runs (and gamble on getting a stuff or a holding penalty somewhere in there, and let you burn up the whole quarter), instead of giving up one 50-yard bomb.

It's like how the NBA switched to shooting threes... perimeter shots are more high variance than driving an iso straight down the lane, but over the long term, your offense will score more total points.
Click to expand...
wrong.

its not about running it all the time. if you can't effectively run against a 4 man front, then the defense drops 7 into coverage and no passes are going to be easy, as safties will drop deep and take away the deep ball. in order for the passing game to be truly effective, which is the bread and butter in NFL today, you have to run effectively specially on 1st and 2nd downs, so that the defense committs 6 or 7 to sop the run. you may not run much, but then that exposes the back end of the defense to deep plays.

and you also have to play ball control and that comes with effective running game. to eat the clock. to tire out the defense and slow the pass rush. you don't have to be great at it. but you have to be very good at running the ball. eagles were 2nd in rushing last year. KC has mahomes, so its a whole different story when you have a generational talent at QB, but SF was 3rd in rushing the year they made it to the superbowl. Philly was top 5 the year before. the only year we had an anomoly was Rams vs. Cinci.

so you either have to have a generation type talent at QB or if your QB is in the good category, you need to have a good running game.
 
blueblood70 said:
This is all you need to post we all know how this works and they're going to blame the quarterback it's not the quarterback you can also say you shouldn't even be blaming the separation on the wide receivers themselves when you can clutter up make it like a minefield out there being able to use almost your entire defensive staff to in coverage and still get pressure and stop the run with a light box that's terrible I mean absolutely has to change.

I believe the only reason they were successful later in the year running the football with Rico not just removing Zach Martin they were a little more physical on the offensive line they had to bring in the tight ends just to help stop what they should have stopped with just the normal line and normal blocking so therefore they weren't running out in coverage so that's why a little bit of the problem with our tight end production besides injury was because of that they were all brought in so they can at least be effective at running the football but now you took most of the offense away....

So yeah it's kind of obvious if you can't be physical up front and run the football without constant help from your tight ends and if you can't block a light box straight up that's a problem it's also a problem blaming the quarterback for not being able to handle zone coverage or similar to zone coverage you call it shell coverage but it's not his fault the guys aren't getting open because of excessive amounts of clutter out there that's why it was really easy that's the other thing was our old offensive coordinator with the play calls with the routes were almost in similar areas how many times did we see another players defensive back break off cut under and get a ball he should have never been into play he literally saw it coming and broke off his own guy either broke up the pass or got an interception this happened so often I could still remember it like it's happening right in front of me I had PTSD

And again you blame the quarterback for having to be forced to play nothing but a shell maximum zone coverage and still have your guys not getting open no run game nothing physical up front blame him for three announce and then the defense allegedly gets tired and everything comes back to the quarterback no how about we have a legitimate run game something that's a threat and you don't have to use everyone to come in and block 5 men!!!..lol.
Click to expand...
good post. also don't forget in the back end of the year we played bottom feeding defenses 3 times. it helps
 
Cowboyny said:
All QB's struggle consistently making tight, window throw. Mahomes also had his struggles when defense took away the big passing plays, the Chiefs countered with running the football better.
Click to expand...
Anyway you want to spin it…

Mahomes
















Dak
 
ScipioCowboy said:
Revisionist history? His draft write up specifically mentions accuracy on deep and intermediate throws. Yes, his mechanics and footwork were poor. But correcting those only helps so much. Ten years later, he still struggles with ball placement.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/dak-prescott/32005052-4528-5723-d1b2-96e92ebc1241
Click to expand...
Hold on. On that link it says his strength is….

When pocket is clean, can deliver accurate strikes around the field. Played with improved vision and care for football this season and eliminated many of the ill-fated throws that turned into interceptions in 2014. Kind of contradicts what you initially said.
 
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