OLB in the first

[burmafrd]

Since that is both a need and where a fair amount of first rd talent is located, that seems to be the logical choice. Now if someone like Nagata or Justice were to slip to us that is another story. BUT leaving that out it is probably OLB which is the one real HOLE we have on D. SIngleton is a good player but not good enough. Burnett has potential but we did not see much and he was injured- so BP has to think about that. So there are really 3 players that would be about right at 18 or maybe a few spots up into the 20's. So a trade down is certainly possible. Lawson, WImbley, Carpenter, Greenway are considered right in that area. Greenway is a player, but not enough of a pass rusher. So that leaves Carpenter, Lawson, WImbley. Carpenter is an all around player- very balanced. Lawson and WImbley seem to be more pass rushers. Now comes the part of how BP sees the position. With him its always about the run first. BUT this position is critical in giving Ware some help at getting to the QB- without blitzing safeties and such. SO he has to balance out stopping the run with being able to move and get to the passer as well as helping to cover the TE. So I think it is down to Wimbley or Lawson. Lawson would be my choice but just slightly above Wimbley.

 

[cboyd]

Someone is finally thinking clearly!!!

 

[dannyboy]

I like Carpender-more the total package than Lawson since Lawson has not handled OLB responsibilites. Also, Carpender had 8 sacks in an injury shortened season

 

[Rack]

Since that is both a need and where a fair amount of first rd talent is located, that seems to be the logical choice. Now if someone like Nagata or Justice were to slip to us that is another story. BUT leaving that out it is probably OLB which is the one real HOLE we have on D. SIngleton is a good player but not good enough. Burnett has potential but we did not see much and he was injured- so BP has to think about that. So there are really 3 players that would be about right at 18 or maybe a few spots up into the 20's. So a trade down is certainly possible. Lawson, WImbley, Carpenter, Greenway are considered right in that area. Greenway is a player, but not enough of a pass rusher. So that leaves Carpenter, Lawson, WImbley. Carpenter is an all around player- very balanced. Lawson and WImbley seem to be more pass rushers. Now comes the part of how BP sees the position. With him its always about the run first. BUT this position is critical in giving Ware some help at getting to the QB- without blitzing safeties and such. SO he has to balance out stopping the run with being able to move and get to the passer as well as helping to cover the TE. So I think it is down to Wimbley or Lawson. Lawson would be my choice but just slightly above Wimbley.

A well balanced OLB is exactly what our D needs. And as many other posters here are doing, you are severely undervaluing (sp?) Carpenter's pass rush abilities.

1. Converting from DE to WOLB is one thing, but converting from DE to SOLB is another story. Can't just unleash the guy on QBs, cuz he has more run responsibilities.

2. Not only would Lawson be converting from DE to OLB, but he'd be changing sides too. Both Carpenter and Wimbley played both sides in college. Lawson was mainly just on the right side.


3. I agree getting to the QB to help free up Ware is important, but both Wimbley and Carpenter are good pass rushers. Plus, the guy we take would be rushing from the strong side more often then the weakside. Therefore a speed rusher won't be as effective (he'll have a TE lined up across him along with the RT). We need a pass rusher. Someone that can do more then just run around a guy real fast.


I wouldn't mind Lawson, but he's the worst fit for us of those three. Carpenter is easily the best fit and Wimbley would be a good fit as well, and might even be better then Carpenter at SOLB down the road.

 

[Clove]

A well balanced OLB is exactly what our D needs. And as many other posters here are doing, you are severely undervaluing (sp?) Carpenter's pass rush abilities.

1. Converting from DE to WOLB is one thing, but converting from DE to SOLB is another story. Can't just unleash the guy on QBs, cuz he has more run responsibilities.

2. Not only would Lawson be converting from DE to OLB, but he'd be changing sides too. Both Carpenter and Wimbley played both sides in college. Lawson was mainly just on the right side.


3. I agree getting to the QB to help free up Ware is important, but both Wimbley and Carpenter are good pass rushers. Plus, the guy we take would be rushing from the strong side more often then the weakside. Therefore a speed rusher won't be as effective (he'll have a TE lined up across him along with the RT). We need a pass rusher. Someone that can do more then just run around a guy real fast.


I wouldn't mind Lawson, but he's the worst fit for us of those three. Carpenter is easily the best fit and Wimbley would be a good fit as well, and might even be better then Carpenter at SOLB down the road.

And Carp had monster tackle numbers in his Junior season, when asked to be a linebacker exclusively, and last year he put his hands down on the ground and got to the passer 8 times playing part time pass rusher.

To me that's impressive, especially when you have Lawson doing it full time and got 10.5 sacks, but on the other hand Lawson had more tackles playing full time DE.

But if the knock on Carpenter is his passrushing skills, then we have no knock.

 

[burmafrd]

Carpenter - I do not get the impression that his sacks will translate as well into the pros. Lawsons speed really grabs me. As a polished LB then clearly Carp is best. BUT as far as growth potential I do not see that much there. Lawson has much more potential and I think that you need to have that to really excell in the NFL.

 

[Rack]

Carpenter - I do not get the impression that his sacks will translate as well into the pros. Lawsons speed really grabs me. As a polished LB then clearly Carp is best. BUT as far as growth potential I do not see that much there. Lawson has much more potential and I think that you need to have that to really excell in the NFL.

1. I don't think Lawson has more potential then Carpenter as a STRONGside Outside LB. As a WOLB, I agree Lawson has more potential.


2. What do you mean by Carpenter's sacks not translating to the NFL? You mean actually using skill to defeat a blocker as opposed to running around a guy?

 

[Clove]

Carpenter - I do not get the impression that his sacks will translate as well into the pros. Lawsons speed really grabs me. As a polished LB then clearly Carp is best. BUT as far as growth potential I do not see that much there. Lawson has much more potential and I think that you need to have that to really excell in the NFL.

I'll be the first to say that Carp was not my first choice a week ago, but if you can get after the passer, you can get after him.

The one play where you think you're getting away from him, and he dives and catches your legs from behind, that's priceless. And one play where he literally rolls the QB and sits on him for a second, this pumps up your entire defense when you say players put it all out on the line.

And you have guys who can rush the passer, but then you have guys who just storm the passer. He basically storms the LOS like a freaking tornado. Wimbley is like that too. And I also saw Carpenter hold up a few linemen, fight them off, and then make a play. Seeing is believing....

 

[burmafrd]

Like I said- I just do not see the growth potential in Carp. He is pretty much a finished product- not much more to be had.

 

[Pokes28]

While it may be true that Carpenter is more of a finished product (happens quite a bit in big programs), remember that Carpenter is really a true overall athlete.

Look at it like this. If you've watched the clips, you see the burst that Lawson has, but you never see him drive an offensive blocker back into the QB. NEVER. The reason is that he runs around his blocker. He doesn't even hedge them or leverage them. All he does is run around them. Now you can do that in college, but it doesn't translate well into the pro game. If you can't bull rush, you can't hold up as a DE or 3-4 OLB in the NFL. If we were to draft Lawson, we would be forced to move Ware to the strong side. Why? Because that would be the best placement. Ware can hold up, has the strength etc. But you would be moving your high pick that was very good as a rookie to a position that he's not quite as well suited to handle so you can get you lower first round pick the following year on the field. Doesn't make sense to me.

I look at their weights. Lawson 238 at his pro day, Wimbley mid 240s, and Carpenter 255+. Look at their results on the field and look at HOW they got their numbers. Carpenter was used not only as a LB, but as a part time DE, a part time FB, and part time TE. He's been used all over the field because he is so very talented. And this is at a school that has as much talent at every position as any team in the country. So the fact that he is so athletic that his coach is looking to find more ways to get him on the field means a lot.

To me Carpenter is the safest pick that can most likely be had in the 2nd half of the first round. Does he have the ceiling that Lawson and perhaps Wimbley have? Who knows. But I think his floor is MUCH higher than the other two.

David Harrell - Pokes
dwh

 

[ddh33]

Great post, Pokes. That's kind of where I come out thinking. I think Carpenter is one of the safest picks in this draft. I think he would be a heck of an inside linebacker in a 3-4. I also think that he will be able to play on the outside because he's so athletic and versatile.

Like you mentioned, I'm not sure his ceiling is as high as Lawson or Wimbley, but he's certainly more polished right now.

 

[austintodallas]

To me Carpenter is the safest pick that can most likely be had in the 2nd half of the first round. Does he have the ceiling that Lawson and perhaps Wimbley have? Who knows. But I think his floor is MUCH higher than the other two.

Very well put!

 

[Derinyar]

Also you have to realize that you can't throw first day draft picks at the same position every single year. We used 2 1st day picks on LB last year and had a FA signing already this year. Thats the reason we quite likely don't see a OLB picked at 18 this year, unless that player is graded out well above the other positions available at that point.

 

[Clove]

The only reason I could possibly give the edge to Wimbley, is because of all the attention the Cowboys have put on him.

I wouldn't be sad if we didn't draft an OLB in the 1st round though. I still say we have Burnett, and there are other prospects who can play this position of OLB for the Cowboys.

I would take Justice or a great FS, and I would even look at 1 of the 2 receivers that are tagged as number 1s.

I think people have fallen so in love with who THEY think should be drafted, that anything else will be unacceptable.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I think Carpenter is strictly a ILB in the 3-4. I know he had 8 sacks playing in a 3 point stance in nickel in college, but so did Kai Parham. It doesn't mean they should be doing it in the pros. At this point I see a trade down coming, and Dallas gets BPA ... probably someone like Eric Winston. Aside from Wimbley, I don't really see anyone that's going to push Singleton/Boiman/Burnett next year as a rookie at LOLB. Lawson is a project who won't make much impact next year, IMHO.

 

[burmafrd]

I have read a fair amount about BP talking about moving Burnett inside- if that is true then probably Carpenter is the guy since he can step right in and play. If that is not true then BP will go with a guy that he thinks will develope and that means either Wimberly or Lawson. As much as BP wants coverage skills as well as pass rushing ability that gives the edge to the faster player who has done coverage- Lawson. Carpenter is certainly the SAFE pick.

 

[DocScholl]

I have read a fair amount about BP talking about moving Burnett inside- if that is true then probably Carpenter is the guy since he can step right in and play. If that is not true then BP will go with a guy that he thinks will develope and that means either Wimberly or Lawson. As much as BP wants coverage skills as well as pass rushing ability that gives the edge to the faster player who has done coverage- Lawson. Carpenter is certainly the SAFE pick.

Agreed , we can probably trade down with the Patsies and get Carpenter , they could move up and take Lawson possibly and we get an extra third rounder .

 

[ddh33]

I think Carpenter is strictly a ILB in the 3-4. I know he had 8 sacks playing in a 3 point stance in nickel in college, but so did Kai Parham. It doesn't mean they should be doing it in the pros. At this point I see a trade down coming, and Dallas gets BPA ... probably someone like Eric Winston. Aside from Wimbley, I don't really see anyone that's going to push Singleton/Boiman/Burnett next year as a rookie at LOLB. Lawson is a project who won't make much impact next year, IMHO.

I just posted almost that exact same thing. If Dallas goes for an OLB, I think it's going to be more of a DE type player.

But I'm not at all convinced that Dallas is even going to do that - at least, not necessarily at 18.

I agree with the "trade down" theory. I think that is exactly what is going to happen. Depending on how far down, I think guys like Davin Joseph and Gabe Watson will be interesting possibilities. I think Dallas is geuninely interested in adding some secondary help as well.

 

[DiscipleofTuna]

The only reason I could possibly give the edge to Wimbley, is because of all the attention the Cowboys have put on him.

I wouldn't be sad if we didn't draft an OLB in the 1st round though. I still say we have Burnett, and there are other prospects who can play this position of OLB for the Cowboys.

I would take Justice or a great FS, and I would even look at 1 of the 2 receivers that are tagged as number 1s.

I think people have fallen so in love with who THEY think should be drafted, that anything else will be unacceptable.

Ding Ding Ding :thankyou:

 

[neosapien23]

A well balanced OLB is exactly what our D needs. And as many other posters here are doing, you are severely undervaluing (sp?) Carpenter's pass rush abilities.

1. Converting from DE to WOLB is one thing, but converting from DE to SOLB is another story. Can't just unleash the guy on QBs, cuz he has more run responsibilities.

2. Not only would Lawson be converting from DE to OLB, but he'd be changing sides too. Both Carpenter and Wimbley played both sides in college. Lawson was mainly just on the right side.


3. I agree getting to the QB to help free up Ware is important, but both Wimbley and Carpenter are good pass rushers. Plus, the guy we take would be rushing from the strong side more often then the weakside. Therefore a speed rusher won't be as effective (he'll have a TE lined up across him along with the RT). We need a pass rusher. Someone that can do more then just run around a guy real fast.


I wouldn't mind Lawson, but he's the worst fit for us of those three. Carpenter is easily the best fit and Wimbley would be a good fit as well, and might even be better then Carpenter at SOLB down the road.

So Wimbley has played SOLB before? I'm just curious because I thought he was a full time DE. He defintitley looks chiseled and strong enough to stop the run.