Old NFL coach's...

[Jarv]

Maybe I should have done some research on this before I posted. But, aw heck, here it goes.

I will use 3 examples.

Don Shula - Great Superbowl coach, won 2 in a row in 72-73 and 73-74 (correct me if I'm wrong). He won these fairly early in his career. He went back in 1984 or so...With Marino I think in his 2nd year...But never got close again. Point is his last 10 years he was just an average coach as far as what he accomplished.

Tom Landry - Started from a huge disadvantage as a team in the early 60's. No supplemtal draft of draft picks at all in the 1st year. Still built a team that in 5-6 years was competing then challenging for a Championship ! Took his team to 5 Superbowls and won two. The last one being in 1978. Flirted with 3 NFC championship games right after that...then sadly for us fans was just an average coach (based on his record) the last 6-7 years of his career.

Chuck Noll - Another great superbowl coach, won 4 superbowls in the 70's and was the coach of the 70's team of the decade. From 1980 - 1990 his teams made a few playoff appearances and I think even one AFC championship game, but no return to the superbowl for him.

Tha main point of this is that all of these 3 great coach's is that most of their success was completed early in their careers. Why is that ? I'm sure you guys can come up with plenty of theories on that. Game changing ? Passing them bye ? Old systems no longer work ?

Bottom line is that BP seems to be in line for the same path as his great predacessors.

Now, I did not do any research on this, just the top of my head stuff. I did do a google search on Noll to try to remember when he retired.

Does someone have any examples of older coach's winning in their youth and in their golden age ? If so, please feel free to post them.

I think BP is done for. His last Superbowl victory was 16 years ago. The old great made some runs, playoff appearences, etc. But could never get over that last hump again.

Anyone think BP is a better coach on his 60's than Shula, Landry or Noll were in their 60's ?

 

[austintodallas]

coaches = plural

coach's = possesive

 

[burmafrd]

Halas is the only one I can think of that won late in his coaching life- 1963.
One could say that the coach of the Rams when they won (name escapes me) was pretty far along. How old was Walsh in his last SB win?
I think you can argue that once a coach hits 60 or so his chances of winning it all are diminishing (Paterno is the mopst notable example)

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Halas is the only one I can think of that won late in his coaching life- 1963.
One could say that the coach of the Rams when they won (name escapes me) was pretty far along. How old was Walsh in his last SB win?
I think you can argue that once a coach hits 60 or so his chances of winning it all are diminishing (Paterno is the mopst notable example)

Dick Vermeil.

 

[Jarv]

Halas is the only one I can think of that won late in his coaching life- 1963.
One could say that the coach of the Rams when they won (name escapes me) was pretty far along. How old was Walsh in his last SB win?
I think you can argue that once a coach hits 60 or so his chances of winning it all are diminishing (Paterno is the mopst notable example)

Dick Vermeil (sp?) and you are right ! I missed him. Of course he didn't win one in his youth tho where, all of the others mentioned above did.

 

[Zaxor]

I think it is a valid point Jarv...Iron Mike Ditka in NO was horrible...

it is one of the things about growing older you do not accept change as readily if at all

 

[joseephuss]

Cycles. That is how the league typically works. Dallas under Landry went in cycles. Started down, went up and then circled back down. The upswing lasted so long that it looked as if the team would never cycle down. They did.

It wasn't schemes or coaching, it was players and talent development that changed. Tex, Gil and Tom lost their touch on evaluating players and also failed to find another QB. They targeted highly touted college QBs in Meredith(3rd round pick by Bears), Morton(1st round pick), Staubach(5th round only because of Naval committment) and White(3rd round). After that, they took a step back. Maybe they got lazy or just had to focus on the other areas of the team that was getting older. They missed out on several draft picks and then had some bad luck on others such as Mike Sherrard.

 

[peplaw06]

If you're talking about solely winning super bowls, then you're going to have an infinitely small sample size. The nature of the old coach is they can't do it physically and they retire. You rarely see "old coaches" who stay for 10 years or so at one place.

And if you want to further limit the sample size by saying old coaches who have gotten it done before, you're not gonna find very many. There are less than 40 super bowl winning coaches in history.

As for old coaches who have been successful, there are plenty. Some guys who have won playoff games... Marv Levy, Schottenheimer, Seifert, Walsh, Gibbs, Parcells (hasn't won a playoff game here, but he did at last stop in New York when he was approaching 60).

 

[burmafrd]

Staubach was a 11rd pick I think. And from all accounts a true shot in the dark. He was never expected to play.

 

[jazzcat22]

Staubach was a 11rd pick I think. And from all accounts a true shot in the dark. He was never expected to play.

WHAT??? Are you serious, never expected to play. He was chosen knowing he had a 4 year committment to the Navy. He took a play book with him. He was the Heisman Trophy winner. And he's not expected to play. I obviously disagree.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Look at each one and see what happened to the QB position and there is your answer.

Shula had Marino, but that is about all. But, he still had them in the playoffs year in and year out and even went to a SB and in '85 ruined the Bears undefeated season and went to the AFC Championship game. That's not terrible. The key is he had a stud QB to work with even though he really didn't have much else.

Now look at those other coaches. Landry and Noll never found the answer at QB after the retirements of Staubach and Bradshaw.

Danny White was a good QB and as long as he was around the Boys were competitive. Then came Hogeboom and Pelluer and the rest is history.

Noll was lost once Bradshaw's shoulder injury ended his career.

As a general rule, the QB position makes and breaks the reputation of Head Coaches in the NFL.

Consider Belichik was a poor, below .500 coach with the Browns and Pats until that Jets LBer saved Belichik's career and injured Bledsoe. In one play and one QB change, Belichik went from a HC nobody really wanted to a genius who is compared with Lombardi. That is humorous to me.

 

[burmafrd]

Roger Staubach was the first academy graduate to serve his four years and then start in the NFL. Some people who do not know their Cowboys history should do a little remedial reading. I suggest Steve Perkins book "the Drive to Win". Its all about the 71 championship team but also fills in a lot of backstory as regards the cowboys and players and coaches.

 

[BARRYRAY]

You are right, there are many newer examples, anybody remember Gruden the fair haired wonder, the Bucs haven't gone anywhere, how about Bellick at
Baltimore, he's cooled off. The other side here is its a long season don't throw in the towel, some examples of hot/cold were the Ravens last night, the Jags after they beat us, the Commanders looked mortal last week. I mean honestly as much as it hurt to loose to the Eagles we were in the game til the end, we did not get beat horribly, if we can just cut down on the long plays and work on the o-line. I'm not sure Flo doesn't need to go, I'm not sure if the rook is ready to take his place but something needs to be done. Also our rbs suc$ at blitz blocking have you ever seen so many wiffs.Anyway we're not dead yet, its a long season we lost a roadgame close to a good opponent, not the first, not the last, beat Texans we're still in the hunt. Honestly I thought the Cowbaoys would struggle early, Flo and TO didn't play alot in the preseaon, and we've revamped the other side as well, so we should have a little patience. I also think that TO is off his game with the hand whether Dallas will admit it or not, probably why we don't throw more to him. We're not SB material yet but there are a whole lot of other teams in the pack with us..

 

[Jarv]

Look at each one and see what happened to the QB position and there is your answer.

Shula had Marino, but that is about all. But, he still had them in the playoffs year in and year out and even went to a SB and in '85 ruined the Bears undefeated season and went to the AFC Championship game. That's not terrible. The key is he had a stud QB to work with even though he really didn't have much else.

Now look at those other coaches. Landry and Noll never found the answer at QB after the retirements of Staubach and Bradshaw.

Danny White was a good QB and as long as he was around the Boys were competitive. Then came Hogeboom and Pelluer and the rest is history.

Noll was lost once Bradshaw's shoulder injury ended his career.

As a general rule, the QB position makes and breaks the reputation of Head Coaches in the NFL.

Consider Belichik was a poor, below .500 coach with the Browns and Pats until that Jets LBer saved Belichik's career and injured Bledsoe. In one play and one QB change, Belichik went from a HC nobody really wanted to a genius who is compared with Lombardi. That is humorous to me.

Great post Capt...

It kinda fits in with Hos's anolgy of premier QB's...

 

[doomsday_II]

I was thinking about this the other day. Parcells conservative style defense to me doesn't fit with the times, unless you have a LT who can get you 20 sacks a season. Since Parcells last coached a championship game with the Jets, the offense has gained many advantages in the passing game. It is now paramount to get pressure on the quarterback since WRs are allowed to run wild compared to the past. Parcells refuses this concept it seems, for the most part.

 

[CalCBFan]

I think the thing that lost Noll his job was staying too long w/ Frank Malone at QB. (BTW does anybody know what happened to him? He used to do NFL Live on ESPN, but I haven't seen him there for a couple of years.) But your point is well taken. Ditka just couldn't relate to players who were in it for the money, and didn't give 110% each week for the love of the game. I've been saying for 3 years now that the game has passed by BP. For the most part, I've been met with fairly severe criticism. And I don't care who is on this roster, they are not winning games they must if we are to be contenders, not pretenders. You've got to wonder when guys like Andy Reid can put rookies like Hank Basket in the game and have confidence in them and BP can't ever seem to trust anybody except for guys that played for him 10 years ago...

 

[joseephuss]

I think the thing that lost Noll his job was staying too long w/ Frank Malone at QB. (BTW does anybody know what happened to him? He used to do NFL Live on ESPN, but I haven't seen him there for a couple of years.) But your point is well taken. Ditka just couldn't relate to players who were in it for the money, and didn't give 110% each week for the love of the game. I've been saying for 3 years now that the game has passed by BP. For the most part, I've been met with fairly severe criticism. And I don't care who is on this roster, they are not winning games they must if we are to be contenders, not pretenders. You've got to wonder when guys like Andy Reid can put rookies like Hank Basket in the game and have confidence in them and BP can't ever seem to trust anybody except for guys that played for him 10 years ago...

Mark Malone

http://cbs2chicago.com/bios/local_bio_114125631.html