ONE Thing I Could Take TO's Back On

LaTunaNostra

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It would take a Nobel Peace Prize, first ballot canonization, and a cure for cancer to make this guy's personality palatable to me, but there has been one development this offseason that leads me to believe that in ONE instance anyway, Owens was not the bigger jerk.

Last season it was reported that TO's relationship with his OC Brad Childress had deteriorated to such a state that TO had demanded of his OC, "don't even talk to me until I address you first".

I laughed my arse off for hours over that one.:laugh1:

But reading about Childress' obnoxious behavior since being appointed Vikings HC...the ongoing pot shots he kept firing over to Miami re a silent Culpepper..totally uncalled for and after the fact, in a pretty good imitation of TO after leaving the Niners, in fact..and this latest bit about the new GM Foley getting fired at least partiallty due to his inability to get along with Childress, and just the few mealymouthed, vindictive soundbytes I've caught out of Minny.

All I can say is..in this ONE case -

Here's to YOU, TO.

There may actually be a more personality challenged individual around than you!
 

Alexander

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LaTunaNostra said:
It would take a Nobel Peace Prize, first ballot canonization, and a cure for cancer to make this guy's personality palatable to me, but there has been one development this offseason that leads me to believe that in ONE instance anyway, Owens was not the bigger jerk.

Last season it was reported that TO's relationship with his OC Brad Childress had deteriorated to such a state that TO had demanded of his OC, "don't even talk to me until I address you first".

I laughed my arse off for hours over that one.:laugh1:

But reading about Childress' obnoxious behavior since being appointed Vikings HC...the ongoing pot shots he kept firing over to Miami re a silent Culpepper..totally uncalled for and after the fact, in a pretty good imitation of TO after leaving the Niners, in fact..and this latest bit about the new GM Foley getting fired at least partiallty due to his inability to get along with Childress, and just the few mealymouthed, vindictive soundbytes I've caught out of Minny.

All I can say is..in this ONE case -

Here's to YOU, TO.

There may actually be a more personality challenged individual around than you!

I noticed the same thing about Childress.

He appears to have a very thin skin and it could be proposed that his mental scars from the Owens situation last year carried over to his new team. He was quick to lump Culpepper into the same category as Owens from almost day one. Everything I have heard come out of his mouth makes me think they will regret hiring him. He just sounds like he is very sensitive and not very thoughtful. He certainly isn't a master of psychology.
 

LaTunaNostra

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Alexander said:
I noticed the same thing about Childress.

He appears to have a very thin skin and it could be proposed that his mental scars from the Owens situation last year carried over to his new team. He was quick to lump Culpepper into the same category as Owens from almost day one. Everything I have heard come out of his mouth makes me think they will regret hiring him. He just sounds like he is very sensitive and not very thoughtful. He certainly isn't a master of psychology.

I'm thinking Tice was classier. And had a better sense of when to clam up.:D

And Alex, I really do WANT to LIKE TO now that he is a Cowboy. I realize his status is pretty much analagous (sic) to Deion's when he was here..some folks accepted him as Cowboy, cheered him on the field, but never cared for him personally..or even disliked him on the personal level.

I don't enjoy actively disliking any Boys player tho..and to tell the truth, it wouldn't take an antidote to bird flu or a public arse kissing of Tuna to make me forgive (but not forget) everything the man has ever done. I don't go for this 'I root for him on field and curse him off it stuff" - it's too complicated for my simple nature. After all, TO is not a criminal, and I've always been willing to attribute his raging ego to some measure of insanity. ;)

I am a firm believer in redemption, and hypocrite enough to learn to overlook past misdeeds committed elsewhere.:D

If he would just DO ONE little thing to prove he's a TEAM PLAYER now. Just one little gesture to demonstrate he has the interests of his teammates at heart, in fact, places their welfare above his own. That would turn me and I could 100 percent get on board.

Do you remember when in early 2004 against the Browns Keyshawn drew that penalty for kicking the player that late hit Terry when he was down?

Now if TO could just do something like THAT, I could happily live with him. :laugh2:
 

Alexander

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LaTunaNostra said:
I'm thinking Tice was classier. And had a better sense of when to clam up.:D

He wasn't a genius, but yes, he did appear to have a great deal of common sense. :)

And Alex, I really do WANT to LIKE TO now that he is a Cowboy. I realize his status is pretty much analagous (sic) to Deion's when he was here..some folks accepted him as Cowboy, cheered him on the field, but never cared for him personally..or even disliked him on the personal level.

I felt the same way about Deion. I never cared for him, but once he donned the laundry, he was family. And you better believe I dropped my beer when he was running back punts and interceptions for touchdowns. I have never felt the overwhelming desire to idolize a football player I don't know. I stopped worshipping the players in the posters on my wall when I was around twelve.

After all, TO is not a criminal, and I've always been willing to attribute his raging ego to some measure of insanity. ;)

I think he has a screw or two loose. So did Michael Irvin.

I am a firm believer in redemption, and hypocrite enough to learn to overlook past misdeeds committed elsewhere.:D

Thing is, I really don't care what he did elsewhere. I also don't care that he paraded around on the star. Just like Deion, I don't have to like him personally to embrace him as a member of the team.
 

LaTunaNostra

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Alexander said:
I have never felt the overwhelming desire to idolize a football player I don't know.

I don't necessarily need to idolize all the players/coaches on the team - those honors go to the select few, but I need to have a certain amount of sympathy (not in the sorrow sense, but in the affective) for players to really kick in the ole emotions. Maybe it's a 'girl' thing, but some minimal ranking on the respect-admiration continuum has to be present for me to get full value as a fan. At the very least, if a player qualifies as the garden variety 'nice-guy' (and for all we know, we could be rooting for Jack the Ripper), I can't help but root for him more.

I mean I can go cheerleader over the Matt Lehrs of this world as easily as the Jason Wittens IF some endearing quality of underdog desire, humility, wit, or bemusement shows itself. ANY of the above qualities could redeem TO, but he appears bereft of everything save ego.

Corny or not, silly or not, I need some sense of 'pride' in the individuals who make up the team, not just the team as a whole. They sure don't have to be saints - in fact reformed bad boys are my special maternal instinct devotion - but they have to at least appear to be authentic, and trying.

Or else, of course, inordinately hot. Which TO ain't.;)

I'll be waiting for Owens to give me something to cheer about that transcends TDs, or at least enhances them. Something, anything...from a TD ball handed graciously to a disabled kid, to a calm response to a big play, to a killer block springing a teammate, to a "Parcells is the Coach I Always Needed" speech...something that will scream T-E-A-M., even if it's 'ordinary'. In fact, what could prolly best work is much more 'ordinary' and much less melodrama. This guy quietly going about his business would just rock.

But I won't be holding my breath.

BTW, perfect avatar for ya, Alex;) .
 

Alexander

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LaTunaNostra said:
Corny or not, silly or not, I need some sense of 'pride' in the individuals who make up the team, not just the team as a whole. They sure don't have to be saints - in fact reformed bad boys are my special maternal instinct devotion - but they have to at least appear to be authentic, and trying.

The 1990s Cowboys cured me of that notion.

Sure, it would have been great if we had 50+ Captain Americas on our roster. But you know as well as I do that doesn't happen.

from a TD ball handed graciously to a disabled kid

Didn't he do this in the past?
 

LaTunaNostra

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Alexander said:
The 1990s Cowboys cured me of that notion.

Sure, it would have been great if we had 50+ Captain Americas on our roster. But you know as well as I do that doesn't happen.

Frankly, I wouldn't want 50 Captain Americas, Alex. They can be as carousing as MI or as wacky as Tim Rossovich, but just be about team. And of all the trillion of words I've seen written on TO, not one article was better imo than the one Troy Aikman wrote a while back laying out why Terrell Owens and Mike Irvin are as different as night and day.

I've been catching up on some threads here today and was caught by that long one on TO's football camp...I won't contribute to it but one of the subthreads in it was 'morality'....and how womanizing/substance abuse (even illegal) measures up on the ethics scale alongside a selfish nature.

It all comes down to personal codes, but I'll take the generous but flawed nature over the 'non-criminal' selfish one every time. I'll take the personal character flaw, the so called 'moral fiber' weakness over the onistic one that tends to shadow every human interaction. A selfish nature, imo, is the ultimate 'sin', because it controls every move, every thought, every relationship. On or off any football field. But that's just my way of looking at things.

Were I St Peter, Mr Irvin walks thru. ;)

Didn't he do this in the past?

I'm sure he has even if I haven't seen it. But now because he's a Cowboy, it'll be worth watching for.

Anyway, Childress deserved the diss, is my guess.
 

Alexander

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Frankly, I wouldn't want 50 Captain Americas, Alex. They can be as carousing as MI or as wacky as Tim Rossovich, but just be about team. And of all the trillion of words I've seen written on TO, not one article was better imo than the one Troy Aikman wrote a while back laying out why Terrell Owens and Mike Irvin are as different as night and day.

Correct. But my question should be posed to Michael Irvin: why the affection for Owens?

I honestly believe that there are more similarities than differences, despite Troy Aikman's heartfelt concerns.

The one thing we never saw with Michael was him playing with a subpar QB or above all, placed in a consistently losing environment with a coach without any method of discipline. Put Michael Irvin on the 1990s Cincinnati Bengals instead of the Dallas Cowboys. Would he be the same player and teammate? That's something very interesting to consider.
 

LaTunaNostra

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Alexander said:
Correct. But my question should be posed to Michael Irvin: why the affection for Owens?

Irvin's affection for TO doesn't surprise me. It's more arm chair shrinking from an NFL fan who doesn't know either personally, but imo it's more evidence of the generous nature of MI that he be the sole public champion of TO - I see in that stance both sincerety, sympathy, and of course his boundless vanity - he obviously loved the way trumpeting "The Cowboys have had no # one receiver since me" gave him another platform for ESPN tomfoolery.

I also suspect TO is smart enough to have been wearing that MI jersey with sincerity. I think there is genuine mutual affection there but who knows how deep it lies. Mike seems to support TO as a great talent, but one who is misunderstood. Could be a lot of projecting, of living in his own past, who knows..the endearing quality of MI is his ability to let his own ego rub off on an issue, yet sit back and laugh about in such a way that his audience feels he is not taking himself anything like too serious.

That's the core diff in these two, imo. One, MI took his career very seriously, but not himself. The other appears to think he is not just the center of his own universe, but everyone's. Irvin's chest thumping has charm whereas Owen's makes one uneasy...it sniffs like something beyond his ability to control. TO isn't like any of the notorious showboating party boys who get absolved of their shenanigans ..he's not a Namath, not a Mantle, and if historians are correct - not a Ruth either. He has no off field glamour or pizazz.

All the Golden Boy personalties from Hornung to Irvin to Geter (I guess Leinart thiks he can cast himself in this mold, but style is born not made) were Men's Men who Women Loved...you wanted to hang with them - they had what TO lacks, a boyish charm caught with the hand in the cookie jar...a larger than life capacity for life. Whatever the personal failings, if any, were therefore more pitied than censured - these were good, generous, honest men on the most fundamental level - and that is what Aikman got across in his recent article.

Poor TO lacks any of the shining personality traits of this breed. And in particular, charisma. A showboat sans charisma is a boor. Sad fact of life is that what one player/person can do and be called charming, another
does and is disdained.

I honestly believe that there are more similarities than differences, despite Troy Aikman's heartfelt concerns.

And you could be right. But despite Irvin's showboating, his gut reactions seemed to be about team...and his role as a catalyst in making it better. The day one former teammate speaks anywhere near as glowingly about TO as Aikman does about his buddy, I will believe TO has touched a fellow human being like Irvin so obviously did. But folks who are about themselves are doomed - their POVS are egocentrically grounded, and every motive, perspective and action tainted by mefirstism. I'm sure you've known someone like TO, if on a less grand scale, in your life. And when you think on who the sole folks were who could even stomach them, they were characters like MI - so non-judgmental and optimistic they could deal with the self centeredness w/o feeling threatened. But I've noticed the MI's of this world tend to play the non-judgment card too often for their own good. The belief that others are as straightforward and fun loving as they are is the gullibility factor that inevitably does them in.

The one thing we never saw with Michael was him playing with a subpar QB or above all, placed in a consistently losing environment with a coach without any method of discipline. Put Michael Irvin on the 1990s Cincinnati Bengals instead of the Dallas Cowboys. Would he be the same player and teammate? That's something very interesting to consider.

Yeah it is, Alex. I don't see MI in those circumstances ending up beaten up or down like a Barry Sanders, or getting cynical like Corey Dillon. In fact, I see him more likely to be trying to get out of town while he still retained his humour...but then ANYONE would be trying to get out of town..it's much harder to be a team player on a losing team, and Tuna himself is always pointing that out as a reason why a team MUST win in a certain period of time.

But MI's ebullience, confidence, and optimism would be pretty good weapons to fight that war with. Success always makes the short and long roads easier, but then again, TO never played on the Bengals of the 90's either. I kinda think MI would better weather the storm than most personalities.

Hey Alex, I saw the infamous Teague-Owens clip again a while back and noticed something for the first time, and that was TO's reaction when GT drove into him.

I found it stunning.

No response to the hit, no attempt to drive back, no anger.
Just a rebound to retake the star, like Teague was a phantom...the only thing that counted was that TO"s previously planned center of attention stunt should gain him that...he looked like you could have started calling out his mother or blown a booger in his eye, or beat him over the head with a cement block... and he'd still just preprogram, robotize back to that star...that star..where the camera light would be 'apoppin. Teague, like the rest of both teams, like the fans, the refs, the world, were mere props. He had it planned out he would celebrate on the star, and that took precedence over everything. I don't think a nuclear holocaust could have dissuaded him.

Watch it again and see if the words sick puppy don't run thru your head. I swear this guy is freaking addicted to attention, like a prom date who does a strip tease to the last waltz. This dude is quantitatively and qualitatively different from any showboater I've seen in thirty plus years of NFL fandom. Unfortunately, what could be the least harmful possible response to his antics - humour, isn't even an option. The guy is so darn unlikable you can't even laugh AT him, much less WITH him.

And I think MI knows it, and pities him for it.

Well this latest round of TO shrinking has been fun. Props to him for enlivening late May, anyway. ;)
 

Alexander

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No response to the hit, no attempt to drive back, no anger.
Just a rebound to retake the star, like Teague was a phantom...the only thing that counted was that TO"s previously planned center of attention stunt should gain him that...he looked like you could have started calling out his mother or blown a booger in his eye, or beat him over the head with a cement block... and he'd still just preprogram, robotize back to that star...that star..where the camera light would be 'apoppin. Teague, like the rest of both teams, like the fans, the refs, the world, were mere props. He had it planned out he would celebrate on the star, and that took precedence over everything. I don't think a nuclear holocaust could have dissuaded him.

Watch it again and see if the words sick puppy don't run thru your head. I swear this guy is freaking addicted to attention, like a prom date who does a strip tease to the last waltz. This dude is quantitatively and qualitatively different from any showboater I've seen in thirty plus years of NFL fandom. Unfortunately, what could be the least harmful possible response to his antics - humour, isn't even an option. The guy is so darn unlikable you can't even laugh AT him, much less WITH him.

I agree.

But simply stated, if he were the evil attention grabber, he would have been upset his stage was usurped. He is insecure and very egocentric and believes that others are just as insecure and crave attention as much as he does.

He is an interesting psychological case. And like many of the insane, it's difficult to harbor legitimate ill-will against them, at least for me.
 
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