Only question at this point - Collins

[jaybird]

Back to the fan zone after some burnt-out.

It is way too early to analyze Jaylon, Taco, Tapper.
Or even to compare with other DEs drafted like Watt or Takk.

Here is the only question I have and it is about La'El.
The FO seemed to have planned the RT transition way before Free retired.
That is great.
Furthermore, with the extension, they clearly like what they see and seem to 'sort of' expected it.
If that is so, why was La'El never given a chance there last 2 years.
Especially when we had Free the turnstile.
We could have had the best 5 OL with Leary at LG and Collins at RT.
Many others have also commented that Collins was better at RT than G.

I've been on that soap box for awhile. Remember when Free re-signed with the Boys at reasonable price, I swear Jerry made some kind of deal with Free, other than injury you can start at RT as long as you want.

 

[diefree666]

I've been on that soap box for awhile. Remember when Free re-signed with the Boys at reasonable price, I swear Jerry made some kind of deal with Free, other than injury you can start at RT as long as you want.

I doubt it went that far. Coaches have their pets just like everyone else human does. Marrinelli and Hayden was about the worse case I have seen; the guy was a total JAG and yet he was starting because according to marrinelli he had a non stop motor.
I could care less about a 4 cylinder non stop motor trying to pull a semi which is what we had there.

 

[kiheikiwi]

Isn't it funny how things work out.
On Free, I think his intangibles was what kept him in the lineup. Better player and leader than what we, the fans got to see.
This whole off-season I bought into the Collins at guard - Green at RT theory/plan. Now it looks like it may well be that they flip flop and both start, I know, I know, its just the start of camp. And Green has to show he can stay healthy.
But I have to admit, I'm actually a little giddy about the O-line prospects. I have been impressed with Green since he came here, ( again, I know, I'm one of the few) he re-made his body the first year when he had the hip surgery. I am hoping he can now finally become the player he has shown flashes of, and Collins, well its been mentioned a few times already - but, shades of Eric Williams anybody ?

 

[waldoputty]

Isn't it funny how things work out.
On Free, I think his intangibles was what kept him in the lineup. Better player and leader than what we, the fans got to see.
This whole off-season I bought into the Collins at guard - Green at RT theory/plan. Now it looks like it may well be that they flip flop and both start, I know, I know, its just the start of camp. And Green has to show he can stay healthy.
But I have to admit, I'm actually a little giddy about the O-line prospects. I have been impressed with Green since he came here, ( again, I know, I'm one of the few) he re-made his body the first year when he had the hip surgery. I am hoping he can now finally become the player he has shown flashes of, and Collins, well its been mentioned a few times already - but, shades of Eric Williams anybody ?

collins did look mean against the rookie taco...
green has talent but not many believes that he will stay healthy - how many different parts of the body was broken last year including back surgery?

 

[diefree666]

Isn't it funny how things work out.
On Free, I think his intangibles was what kept him in the lineup. Better player and leader than what we, the fans got to see.
This whole off-season I bought into the Collins at guard - Green at RT theory/plan. Now it looks like it may well be that they flip flop and both start, I know, I know, its just the start of camp. And Green has to show he can stay healthy.
But I have to admit, I'm actually a little giddy about the O-line prospects. I have been impressed with Green since he came here, ( again, I know, I'm one of the few) he re-made his body the first year when he had the hip surgery. I am hoping he can now finally become the player he has shown flashes of, and Collins, well its been mentioned a few times already - but, shades of Eric Williams anybody ?

by the end of last season Free was 3rd in the NFL among all tackles for allowing pressures and sacks. If green had been healthy he would have been starting. That is why the boys were not surprised at Free retiring or did they frankly care; they had already moved on.

 

[xwalker]

gee, not encouraging about the coaching.
hope they got clock management fix this year.

Coaches historically (Even great coaches) have tended to lean towards the known over the unknown. They tend to play veterans over young players even when the young players look a little better in practice. That' s one reason it's so hard for late round picks and UDFAs to get starting spots. They often have to be waaay better than the veteran that they're competing against in order to get the opportunity to start.

With early round picks, coaches know that the front office expects them to start so veterans don't get the benefit of the doubt in those situations.

Many Pro teams have differences of opinion between the front office and the coaches when it comes down to the nitty-gritty decisions on players.

It's much easier to be a hard-arse as a GM or front office guy than it is when you're a coach that has to work with the players everyday.

Marinelli grades his players for "Loafs" meaning any play they didn't give 100% effort for the duration of the play. Nick Hayden always had the best score because he never took a play off. That blinded Marinelli a bit to the fact that he was just not a very good player.

One of the great things about Jimmy Johnson was that he actually seemed to prefer young players and didn't get that worried about them making a few mistakes; although, there were exceptions (Safety, MLB).

 

[BigD_95]

Free was a dang good player. The best offensive lineman we had before the young studs came along. Cowboys fans can be brutal at times when they really don't understand what is happening out there. Free struggled at times in space, but he also played hurt more than he let on.

Collins has had his struggles at guard. Hopefully, he's learned his way out of that and is becoming the pro they project.

Please Free was never dang good player. He was average at best. Always the weak link.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Thanks, I understand Collins got hurt but my point was more about the beginning of 2016.
Even for contingency planning, one would have Collins get reps at OT.
I dont understand the allergy for Collins to get reps there.

Well they had Green at that spot. He was drafted for that reason

 

[TheFinisher]

I laughed every time I saw an off-season article citing Doug Free's retirement as a hit to this OL, like his loss was leading to an imminent regression.

La'el Collins was one of the best RT prospects to come out of the college ranks in the last 5 years.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

Garrett would not bench Free under any condition.

It goes back to when the OL guru Bill Callahan came here and implemented the scheme they've had so much success with. Callahan wanted to bench Free way back then and Garrett absolutely refused. Callahan appealed directly to Jerry and the result was that Free and Parnell rotated series on the final 4 games that season.

Much like Romo and Witten, Free was buddies with Garrett.

Most other coaches would have limited Witten to less than 100% of the offense snaps in most games last season but Garrett would not do it and it's doubtful that he'll do it this season. People have said that Witten looks faster/quicker at the beginning of training camp than he did last season. That is highly likely because he's had all offseason to rest. Playing him more like 80% of the snaps would go a long way in keeping him fresh but Garrett is unlikely to do it.

Marinelli did something similar with Nick (Golden Cock) Hayden. He played a huge percentage of the snaps despite other players being physically better. The front office finally forced the issue by not bringing him back. Stephen Jones was known to be irritated about Hayden playing so many snaps but the Cowboys under Stephen and McClay don't like to force the coaches decisions like Jerry often did in the past. Their method of forcing the issue is by just not re-signing certain players.

You might recall that Garrett was adamant in the past that La'el would stay at Guard. "La'el is a Guard" was one Garrett quote in response to questions about him moving to RT.

It's okay, X, you can let go.

Parnell was just not that good and Free, though a weak link, still complemented the offensive unit well.

As for Collins, guard was a good position for him his rookie year, and who's to say he would not have battled Free for the RT spot if he had not been injured last season. For all we know, the Cowboys may have considered him at RT if Leary looked good in practice and Free was not consistent. We just do not know.

As for Free and Red being "buddies," I just don't see it.

 

[bsbellomy]

Back to the fan zone after some burnt-out.
The FO seemed to have planned the RT transition way before Free retired..

Why in the world would you say that?

 

[waldoputty]

Why in the world would you say that?

they just seemed calm about Free's retirement.
they also did not sign a replacement despite Green being glass man and Bell/others being journeymen...

 

[waldoputty]

Well they had Green at that spot. He was drafted for that reason

there is some merit to that.
though many seem to think the Collins is a better fit at OT than G.
why not at least give him some reps.
certainly would give flexibility for chosing the 46.
think Martin got some reps at RT?

 

[Ranching]

they just seemed calm about Free's retirement.
they also did not sign a replacement despite Green being glass man and Bell/others being journeymen...

Collins is gonnna tear it up at RT. print it in 2 inch letters.

 

[waldoputty]

Collins is gonnna tear it up at RT. print it in 2 inch letters.

hey coach.
u did not say it like Jimmy did with the repeat?
if i recall it was 3 inches so u r an inch short?

 

[Ranching]

hey coach.
u did not say it like Jimmy did with the repeat?
if i recall it was 3 inches so u r an inch short?

I'm speechless. You got me on that one, General.

 

[waldoputty]

I'm speechless. Our got me on that one, General.

wow, general is shocked

 

[xwalker]

It's okay, X, you can let go.

Parnell was just not that good and Free, though a weak link, still complemented the offensive unit well.

As for Collins, guard was a good position for him his rookie year, and who's to say he would not have battled Free for the RT spot if he had not been injured last season. For all we know, the Cowboys may have considered him at RT if Leary looked good in practice and Free was not consistent. We just do not know.

As for Free and Red being "buddies," I just don't see it.

Callahan knows more about OL than Garrett. He preferred Parnell.

Real NFL decision makers paid Parnell more than Free with 2x guarantee.

Collins didn't practice at OT last year and he was injured during the season. He was not moving to RT then.

Garrett said after the season but before Free retirement that Collins would stay at OG. Then Free retires and the first practice afterwards, Collins is at RT for all of his snaps.

Do you live in Dallas? I personally saw Garrett, Witten, Romo and Free at a fancy restaurant here and I don't even go out that often anymore.

Local Sports Talk radio makes it clear which players and players/coaches they see hanging out together or when Romo hangs out with Jerry at High School football games.

 

[DFWJC]

Garrett would not bench Free under any condition.

It goes back to when the OL guru Bill Callahan came here and implemented the scheme they've had so much success with. Callahan wanted to bench Free way back then and Garrett absolutely refused. Callahan appealed directly to Jerry and the result was that Free and Parnell rotated series on the final 4 games that season.

Much like Romo and Witten, Free was buddies with Garrett.

Most other coaches would have limited Witten to less than 100% of the offense snaps in most games last season but Garrett would not do it and it's doubtful that he'll do it this season. People have said that Witten looks faster/quicker at the beginning of training camp than he did last season. That is highly likely because he's had all offseason to rest. Playing him more like 80% of the snaps would go a long way in keeping him fresh but Garrett is unlikely to do it.

Marinelli did something similar with Nick (Golden Cock) Hayden. He played a huge percentage of the snaps despite other players being physically better. The front office finally forced the issue by not bringing him back. Stephen Jones was known to be irritated about Hayden playing so many snaps but the Cowboys under Stephen and McClay don't like to force the coaches decisions like Jerry often did in the past. Their method of forcing the issue is by just not re-signing certain players.

You might recall that Garrett was adamant in the past that La'el would stay at Guard. "La'el is a Guard" was one Garrett quote in response to questions about him moving to RT.

I'll go out on a limb and predict Witten's percentage snap count drops this year.
Collins may not need the in-space coverage as much, and we may go double slot a bit more too with Switzer.

But yes, barring injury, it probably won,t be 80%.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

Callahan knows more about OL than Garrett. He preferred Parnell.

Real NFL decision makers paid Parnell more than Free with 2x guarantee.

Collins didn't practice at OT last year and he was injured during the season. He was not moving to RT then.

Garrett said after the season but before Free retirement that Collins would stay at OG. Then Free retires and the first practice afterwards, Collins is at RT for all of his snaps.

Do you live in Dallas? I personally saw Garrett, Witten, Romo and Free at a fancy restaurant here and I don't even go out that often anymore.

Local Sports Talk radio makes it clear which players and players/coaches they see hanging out together or when Romo hangs out with Jerry at High School football games.

I agree with everything you say except for the part about Parnell. His position dictated his salary on the open market. He was a good player, but he was not better than Free, overall.

As for living in Dallas, I am five minutes away from the Star. As a consultant in my field, I've had the privilege of being around the Star and the Cowboys for work-related events. The only player I can say for certainty Garrett was chums with would be Tony. Those two spent a lot of time together.

Romo, on the other hand, was chums with Free. Maybe it was a foursome that day?