Only true shutdown CB is....

[md2005]

Newman is very good but NOT great. Great players find a way to make BIG plays in crunch time. No one could argue the fact that TNew doesnt make BIG plays. He is rock solid and by no means is this post critical of him, but to say he is great is a huge reach.

 

[burmafrd]

DEPENDS on what is important. If giving up TDS to get INTS then TNew is not great. THAT is what virtually every other CB, including Champ, does. TNEW does not give up much of ANYTHING.
TO ME, a CBs FIRST RESPONSIBILITY is to prevent completions. TNew does that better then ANYONE in the NFL.
Now Champ is having a great year- he is scoring and making INTS without giving up TOO MANY TDS himself. I think he is at a PLUS as regards TDs scored on vs scored. I have no problem with him as the #1 CB in the NFL. I would love for him and TNEW to be playing together; the poor QB would probably pick on TNEW since it looks worse to get INTd rather then incompletions.

 

[TNCowboy]

He is not ignored the way green and sanders were. Teams used to run their whole gameplan around avoiding these guys.

Ever read or hear anything about Darrell Green. Parcells used to instruct simms no matter what dont throw it at Darrel green when they played washington. Simms in his book wrote a few pages about it, saying the one time he did and gree picked him off and scored!!!

I love newman. He is outstanding. Teams dont avoid him like many of us think they do however. The poor safety play on the other side of the field draws alot of attention and henry's inability to run with speed wr attracts throws.

And this has nothing to do with the game in open spaces. I dont care personally who the corner is, pick one, whoever you think is the best, put him against a decent wr in man coverage and he will get beat more than he makes a play. That is just the nature of the game and how they want it right now.

Green wasn't ignored. He wasn't in the same universe with Deion.

 

[FiveTime]

I agree with Rack to a point but it goes both ways. Neither corners nor receivers are allowed to "play" as much as they were in the past. I do think that it affects corners more then recievers.

Michael would have had even more scrutiny on him today than he did then but he was very good at doing what he knew the officials would let go. How many time have you heard him explain how he used his elbow or body to push off and not his hands.

Deion was great; I know that many don't care for him but he played well beyond anyone that I can remember. The only reason Green is brought up in that conversation is because he played well beyond his size and he had a much better image with the average fan. I think that Deion actually got the best of Rice in their matchups. Too bad that he had to blatantly interfere w/ Irvin in the 94 chamionship game to keep Dallas from victory.

The only guy I remember Irvin having a real problem with is the guy (sorry, I should remember the name) from Arizona.

 

[theebs]

Green wasn't ignored. He wasn't in the same universe with Deion.

I think green was better, just my opinion.

 

[FiveTime]

...and for Champ; he quietly has, I think, 9 int's. If it wasn't for his last one coming while covering Ocho Cinco he wouldn't be getting as much attention.

 

[theebs]

When Irvin and Rice went up against Green and Deion, they still got their typical production.

Irvin had some very good games against green. That was atypical though.

As far rice goes, I cant remember off the top of my head how he fared against green, if you say he had good days I believe you.

Having said that I still think those are the two best corners ever.

Everyone loves to put deion on this pedestal? Anyone care to remember what irvin did to sanders when he was in atlanta?

I have a video clip I will upload tonight when I get home from the stadium, of Dallas abusing the great sanders.

Oh and saying rice and irvin, the best and one of the other best to ever play the position against green and sanders really doesnt disspell what I am trying to say. All four of those guys were great.

 

[Jarv]

I look at shutdown corners guys that play man to man defense and stop the guy they are covering doesn't catch a lot of balls or score.

TNew is stuck in the "cover 2" zone a lot of the time, he must hate it. He covers a WR off the line, then pass's him off to a middle or deep zone and watch the guy make a big catch.

I always liked man to man defense, Adam...Do you know the ratio of our defense's man coverage vs. zone coverage ? How about Denvers ?

Do CB's in man coverage get more chances for INT's than Zone CB's ?

 

[FiveTime]

Theebs, you a correct in saying that it is unfair to judge those guys vs Rice and Irvin. Please post a link to the Irvin-Deion video; I would love to watch it.

Who was the highly touted corner from GreenBay that Irvin made his ****** time after time in the playoffs?

I don't know that Green faced Rice enough to have a good judgement. Irvin vs Green and Rice vs Deion was a more frequent occurence.

 

[theebs]

Theebs, you a correct in saying that it is unfair to judge those guys vs Rice and Irvin. Please post a link to the Irvin-Deion video; I would love to watch it.

Who was the highly touted corner from GreenBay that Irvin made his ****** time after time in the playoffs?

I don't know that Green faced Rice enough to have a good judgement. Irvin vs Green and Rice vs Deion was a more frequent occurence.

I will put the link up when I get home!!!


Are you thinking of terrell buckeley? He was small and not near as good as green or sanders.

 

[FiveTime]

Ahh yes, I think it was Buckley. I didn't mean to infer that he was in the league of Sanders or Green, just an example of a highly touted guy (that was not very good early but came back to be pretty decent) that struggled with the caliber of Irvin or Rice.

OK, who was the corner from Arizona that gave Irvin problems?

 

[Sarge]

Thanks to the NFL putting dresses on WRs, there are no Shutdown CBs anymore, and there never will be one again..

We have a winner here.

 

[Vtwin]

The only guy I remember Irvin having a real problem with is the guy (sorry, I should remember the name) from Arizona.

Aneas Williams. (Probably spelled the first name wrong).

He did give Irvin a good game every time. If he played on any other team but the Cardinals he would be mentioned with Green and Sanders too.

 

[MarkBrunell]

Champ Bailey was Quincy Carters *****. You can't call Champ the best CB ever.

That title belongs to Darrell Green or Deion Sanders.

 

[burmafrd]

Bet you guys wish you had kept Bailey now.

 

[FiveTime]

Vtwin, thanks, that was driving me crazy this morning.

Too many beers last night is affecting my memory this morning

 

[Sarge]

Too many beers last night is affecting my memory this morning

Rookie......................

Ah, the days of me and Booze going beer for beer.

Memorieeeeeeeeeeeeees............

 

[FiveTime]

Unfortunately, I think I have achieved professional status in that category