Our future with the 3-4

[Doomsday101]

I think Burnett gets Dats spot when he gets injured (& he will)...

We need more speed & toughness on D...Something dat can't ever provide...

Burnett might also find himself back on the nickle...No way we can play Filthy with such SLOW guys at LBer like Dat & Shanle...

Dat has not missed a game in the last 2 years do how can you say He will get hurt? Last week he got a stinger many players get that in the course of a game and even that only kept Dat out 1 play

 

[Hiero]

I think we might keep Glover, unless we draft a solid young dt sometime in the draft next year. I doubt we could get much if anything for him next year. Spears is going to steal Coleman's starting spot sometime in the next month. Ellis is easy to keep around, and Canty is the future starter who will be a big time player. Singletons gone next year, I think we resign Fujita,
and start him and Burnett instead of James and Singleton.

Our current depth chart:

Ellis -- Canty
Glover -- Ferguson
Coleman (YUCK) -- Spears

Singleton -- Fujita
James (YUCK) -- Shanle (YUCK)
Dat -- Fowler
Ware -- Burnett

Fujita is on a 1 year deal. Does he stay? Can he be moved to ILB if needed?

Glover == $4.5 million base salary next year, then is a FA the year after. What do we do at DT?

What is Burnett's future in this defense? Why play him behind Ware only to move him next year if he wants to start?

Ellis comes at a decent price over the next 2 seasons, with base salaries each year of $2.5 million or less. Do we keep him around? (I say yes, start Spears over Coleman)

James hasn't shown any big play ability as of yet and Shanle hasn't been able to beat him out. Do we look to improve at ILB via the draft or FA or can we move Burnett to the inside??

Singleton's base next year is $2.17 million next year, and with Burnett looking to start (we hope), he looks to be gone.

I know some of these questions will be answered by how this season plays out, just looking for some opinions on what direction you think we are headed and what the master plan is with the defense.

 

[Galian Beast]

We will need upgrades at LB for this to really take off.

Right now Dat has been it, with a little help from Ware and Singleton. Hopefully, Ware starts making more plays like the Seattle game, and Burnett and Fujita can live up to expectations.

Even if they do, we have very questionable depth.

I'll be shocked if LB was not our first pick in 2006.

BlindZebra you're crazy.

Fujita is a proven starter. As is Nguyen. Linebacker is one of toughest positions to transition to in the nfl. And Both Ware and Burnett are learning new positions. Ware is a defensive end in the 4-3, and Burnett is weakside linebacker in the 4-3. Burnett is coming off of an injury as well.

We've already spent a 1st and a 2nd on linebackers, I doubt we spend any more high draft picks.

Next year you have:

Ware - Nguyen - Fujita/Burnett - Fujita/Burnett
Thornton - Shanle/James - Fowler/James - Rookie/Free Agent/Singleton

The only time you use a first day pick on a position is when you need a starter either in the future or at the present. We don't.

There is no way we draft a linebacker in the first next year, perhaps not even on the first day.

Smith22, we're playing burnett behind Ware for a couple reasons.

1. you don't want both ware and burnett in at the same time. You don't want to compound the amount of mistakes you have on defense.

2. You want to spell Ware as much as possible.

3. You probably want to get him experience at that outside spot.

4. You don't have anyone else there. Ogbogu isn't going to be dressed as long as we're healthy there.

Fujita has 1 year left... so what... Its called contract extension. As long as he works out in the 3-4, we'll definitely resign him.

The only serious holes we have on defense is as safety. And my guess is you address that in free agency rather than the draft. You want someone who can definitely help you immediately. Maybe you do both (draft and sign a fa)

Everything else is offense. Wide Receiver and Offensive line to be exact.

We need a stud receiver for when Glenn and Johnson are gone. We also need to look at long term plans for maintaining this offensive line.

I think we might resign Rogers next year, and hopefully we do because that would at least allow us to concentrate on probably drafting a guard high instead.

Both Rivera and Allen are up there in age. We have peterman, but I don't think you're going to settle for Noll.

Hopefully next year we could have this depth chart

LT Adams -- Rogers
LG Allen -- Peterman
C Johnson -- Gurode
RG Rivera -- First day draft pick
RT Pettiti -- Tucker

I would really like the looks of that

QB Bledsoe -- Romo -- Henson (hopefully henson is our #2 next year)
HB Jones -- Thompson -- Barber (Thomas won't be resigned)
FB Polite (might look at upgrading this position)
TE Witten -- Campbell -- Pierce (resigning Campbell and witten should be the top priority)
WR1 Johnson -- First day draft pick -- Copper (Price is gone next year)
WR2 Glenn -- Crayton -- Crowder

So basically our prioritys next year (assuming we resign Rogers, which I guess is a big assumption) we'd probably draft a WR, OG, and FS in the first day. Which sounds pretty good to me.

With the level of talent we should have next year I really see us being the team to beat in the nfc.

 

[Alexander]

BlindZebra you're crazy.

We will need an ILB. Bradie James, not Al Singleton, is our worst, IMO

Fujita is a proven starter. As is Nguyen. Linebacker is one of toughest positions to transition to in the nfl. And Both Ware and Burnett are learning new positions. Ware is a defensive end in the 4-3, and Burnett is weakside linebacker in the 4-3. Burnett is coming off of an injury as well.

Why are you talking about the 4-3? It is pretty clear that we are moving more towards the four linebacker look.

We've already spent a 1st and a 2nd on linebackers, I doubt we spend any more high draft picks.

Parcells built the Giants around a two outside LBers in Taylor and Banks and one great ILB, Harry Carson. He won't allow another year of Nguyen and a mediocre player like James. We might not invest a high choice in a OLB, but I am sure we would look hard at inside linebackers very early.

Next year you have:

Ware - Nguyen - Fujita/Burnett - Fujita/Burnett
Thornton - Shanle/James - Fowler/James - Rookie/Free Agent/Singleton

Then we have done nothing to upgrade the unit. I think you are putting too much stock in players like Shanle and Fowler, both of whom are bit players, not starters as of yet.

The only time you use a first day pick on a position is when you need a starter either in the future or at the present. We don't.

So James is the future?

He is in year three. The clock is ticking.

There is no way we draft a linebacker in the first next year, perhaps not even on the first day.

I'll bet you big time we look hard at linebackers. Parcells loves them...as he says "collects 'em".

We need a stud receiver for when Glenn and Johnson are gone. We also need to look at long term plans for maintaining this offensive line.

Unfortunately, again this is not a tendency of Parcells. He rarely targets receivers, particularly the "stud receiver" type you are talking about. He made his living with Stephen Bakers and Phil McConkeys of the world. He drafted two high and that was Mark Ingram and Glenn, who was practically forced down his throat in New England.

I think we might resign Rogers next year, and hopefully we do because that would at least allow us to concentrate on probably drafting a guard high instead.

I think there is enough bad blood there that we won't bother.

QB Bledsoe -- Romo -- Henson (hopefully henson is our #2 next year)
HB Jones -- Thompson -- Barber (Thomas won't be resigned)
FB Polite (might look at upgrading this position)
TE Witten -- Campbell -- Pierce (resigning Campbell and witten should be the top priority)
WR1 Johnson -- First day draft pick -- Copper (Price is gone next year)
WR2 Glenn -- Crayton -- Crowder

So basically our prioritys next year (assuming we resign Rogers, which I guess is a big assumption) we'd probably draft a WR, OG, and FS in the first day. Which sounds pretty good to me.

Copper, Crowder? Easily replaceable.

 

[wileedog]

Parcells built the Giants around a two outside LBers in Taylor and Banks and one great ILB, Harry Carson. He won't allow another year of Nguyen and a mediocre player like James. We might not invest a high choice in a OLB, but I am sure we would look hard at inside linebackers very early.

Parcells has hinted once or twice that Burnett's eventual home may be inside, probably taking James' job.

I wouldn't be shocked at all if we looked at another impact OLB pass rusher to bookend Ware, then went Dat and Burnett inside. That could be a very scary group, depending how things develop.

 

[Alexander]

Parcells has hinted once or twice that Burnett's eventual home may be inside, probably taking James' job.

I wouldn't be shocked at all if we looked at another impact OLB pass rusher to bookend Ware, then went Dat and Burnett inside. That could be a very scary group, depending how things develop.

He has hinted about Burnett, sure. Either way, we will look at a LBer early, I would bet the farm on it.

 

[Galian Beast]

Alexander, either Fujita or Burnett will be our future replacement for Bradie James if he proves unworthy of starting.

Learn how to read. I said that Ware and Burnett are learning new positions, I didn't say anything about us using the 4-3.

Nguyen who leads the team with 22 tackles, a sack, interception, and fumble recovery? Parcells has no problem with Dat, and that is why we didn't trade Dat Nguyen to New Orleans.

Fujita having a year in the 3-4, Burnett and Ware having a year in the nfl... those are all upgrades. Use common sense. None of those players have ever played in the 3-4. You probably think Fujita is no good because he isn't starting. Fact is he is an extremely good player, he like Peerless Price were not with us in the preseason or training camp.

Shanle and Fowler are capable backups. The only concerns parcells has about the lb corp at the moment is lack of experience, and lack of depth on the outside.

If James isn't the futuer we still have Burnett or Fujita who can replace him.

Yea, I'll bet you my account against yours that we don't draft a linebacker in the first. Did you see Parcells drafting linebackers high in 2003 or 2004? Terence Newman, Al Johnson, Jason Witten, Julius Jones, Jacob Rogers, Stephen Peterman...

You really don't know what Parcells is going to do. We have the oldest starting receiver duo in the nfl, and both of their contracts are up in 2007. He is going to draft a receiver for the future of this team.

Why do you think he traded for both keyshawn and glenn former first round draft picks?

something he didn't do in previous tenures...

I would have thought there was enough bad blood between the organization and players like Willie Blade too... quite a few players have been released and have come back.

Copper and Crowder are easily replaceable, but I don't know whether you replacement them or not. there really isn't a need unless they don't show improvement.

 

[junk]

I have to agree with Alexander. Unless someone falls in their lap in FA, I bet Dallas drafts at least one linebacker in the first two rounds.

Thats the way it looks today, maybe that changes.

 

[Galian Beast]

You believe that because you underestimate both Fujita and Burnett.

You probably think that because we got Fujita for so cheap, or because he has yet to start that he won't. Trust me, he will.

Burnett will eventually start too.

You're looking at two players without 3-4 experience. One player who wasn't with us in training camp, and the other coming off an injury that kept him from playing at all in the first two games.

We didn't trade for Fujita for him to sit, nor did we draft Burnett to sit.

That said... are starting linebacker spots are definitely all set, and we won't be drafting any linebacker high.

 

[Galian Beast]

Scott Fujita
- 3 year starter in Kansas City
- Hasn't missed a single game in his nfl career due to injury
- Lead Kansas City in tackles in 2003 and 2004 (111 tackles, 90 takcles)
- 8.5 sacks in the last two years

Kevin Burnett
- 2nd round draft pick
- two year team captain at tennesse
- 90 tackles, 1 forced fumble in his junior year
- 91 tackles, 2 fumble recoveries

Doesn't have a lot of sacks, but that wasn't what he was used for in college.

 

[blindzebra]

BlindZebra you're crazy.

Fujita is a proven starter. As is Nguyen. Linebacker is one of toughest positions to transition to in the nfl. And Both Ware and Burnett are learning new positions. Ware is a defensive end in the 4-3, and Burnett is weakside linebacker in the 4-3. Burnett is coming off of an injury as well.

We've already spent a 1st and a 2nd on linebackers, I doubt we spend any more high draft picks.

Next year you have:

Ware - Nguyen - Fujita/Burnett - Fujita/Burnett
Thornton - Shanle/James - Fowler/James - Rookie/Free Agent/Singleton

The only time you use a first day pick on a position is when you need a starter either in the future or at the present. We don't.

There is no way we draft a linebacker in the first next year, perhaps not even on the first day.

Smith22, we're playing burnett behind Ware for a couple reasons.

1. you don't want both ware and burnett in at the same time. You don't want to compound the amount of mistakes you have on defense.

2. You want to spell Ware as much as possible.

3. You probably want to get him experience at that outside spot.

4. You don't have anyone else there. Ogbogu isn't going to be dressed as long as we're healthy there.

Fujita has 1 year left... so what... Its called contract extension. As long as he works out in the 3-4, we'll definitely resign him.

The only serious holes we have on defense is as safety. And my guess is you address that in free agency rather than the draft. You want someone who can definitely help you immediately. Maybe you do both (draft and sign a fa)

Everything else is offense. Wide Receiver and Offensive line to be exact.

We need a stud receiver for when Glenn and Johnson are gone. We also need to look at long term plans for maintaining this offensive line.

I think we might resign Rogers next year, and hopefully we do because that would at least allow us to concentrate on probably drafting a guard high instead.

Both Rivera and Allen are up there in age. We have peterman, but I don't think you're going to settle for Noll.

Hopefully next year we could have this depth chart

LT Adams -- Rogers
LG Allen -- Peterman
C Johnson -- Gurode
RG Rivera -- First day draft pick
RT Pettiti -- Tucker

I would really like the looks of that

QB Bledsoe -- Romo -- Henson (hopefully henson is our #2 next year)
HB Jones -- Thompson -- Barber (Thomas won't be resigned)
FB Polite (might look at upgrading this position)
TE Witten -- Campbell -- Pierce (resigning Campbell and witten should be the top priority)
WR1 Johnson -- First day draft pick -- Copper (Price is gone next year)
WR2 Glenn -- Crayton -- Crowder

So basically our prioritys next year (assuming we resign Rogers, which I guess is a big assumption) we'd probably draft a WR, OG, and FS in the first day. Which sounds pretty good to me.

With the level of talent we should have next year I really see us being the team to beat in the nfc.

Fujita is a proven starter in the 4-3 on one of the worst defenses in football and is under a one year deal. A) We don't know what we have. B) We very well could lose him.

Dat is proven, again, in the 4-3. To his credit he has played well, so far this year.

I'm crazy, yet you assume that everybody will just turn out okay. Well, so far Ware has one sack, has blown assignments, and has gotten eaten alive...at times...versus the run. Burnett has barely played, or have you forgotten our recent history with 2nd round picks...Johnson, Julius, and Rogers...in staying healthy?

James was given a starting spot last year and his play lost it. He was given one again this year, and his play is fast taking him off the field again. Next year will be his 4th year, and right now this may be his last as a Cowboy.

Shanle and Fowler are both FA pick ups that earned spots as special team players, neither has shown enough to make me not want to upgrade the roster at their expense.

Ogbogu is a DE and a situational pass rusher, who got cut already once this year and was inactive when Burnett came back.

Singleton is a solid LB in the 4-3, a pretty average one in a 3-4, and a costly one considering the 3-4 is based on your LBs making big plays, not just being steady.

Love is a freaking basketball player/WR, so I'm sure he will help.

Thornton is a converted DE coming off the IR.

But hey, I'm the crazy one for thinking we need a LB.

 

[Galian Beast]

Fujita is a proven starter in the 4-3 on one of the worst defenses in football and is under a one year deal. A) We don't know what we have. B) We very well could lose him.

Dat is proven, again, in the 4-3. To his credit he has played well, so far this year.

I'm crazy, yet you assume that everybody will just turn out okay. Well, so far Ware has one sack, has blown assignments, and has gotten eaten alive...at times...versus the run. Burnett has barely played, or have you forgotten our recent history with 2nd round picks...Johnson, Julius, and Rogers...in staying healthy?

James was given a starting spot last year and his play lost it. He was given one again this year, and his play is fast taking him off the field again. Next year will be his 4th year, and right now this may be his last as a Cowboy.

Shanle and Fowler are both FA pick ups that earned spots as special team players, neither has shown enough to make me not want to upgrade the roster at their expense.

Ogbogu is a DE and a situational pass rusher, who got cut already once this year and was inactive when Burnett came back.

Singleton is a solid LB in the 4-3, a pretty average one in a 3-4, and a costly one considering the 3-4 is based on your LBs making big plays, not just being steady.

Love is a freaking basketball player/WR, so I'm sure he will help.

Thornton is a converted DE coming off the IR.

But hey, I'm the crazy one for thinking we need a LB.

Just because Kansas City had a horrible defense, doesn't speak anything about Fujita who had over 90 tackles in each of the last two years of his career...

Its unlikely that we would trade for him just to have him for a year.

You do know that Dat Nguyen played in the 3-4 at Texas A&M right?

You simply think this is Madden or something. There is a learning curve in professional sports. And in football linebacker (especially in the 3-4) is one of the hardest positions to learn, especially when you have no linebacker experience...

LOL, and now you're stupid enough to think that there is some sort of 2nd round curse...

I didn't say anything about bradie james...

Shanle and Fowler have both been solid backups. Shanle was better at SOLB last year when Singleton went down, and has a sack this year. Fowler is a beast on special teams, and that is generally what your back up defensive players are going to comprise of.

I didn't say anything about Ogbogu...

I fully expect Singleton to be gone at the end of the year. Learn how to read... didn't you see where my depth chart for next year? Can you read?

I didn't say anything about love, who isn't even on our 53 man roster...

thornton has been a linebacker since last year...

 

[blindzebra]

I'm realistically looking at the situation and I'm the one Maddenizing? Now that is funny.

Of course KC's defensive struggles cloud the Fujita issue. He was a solid player on a crappy defense, that they were willing to get rid of for next to nothing.

If he plays well he is still a FA, so there is no guarantee we can keep him.

I supplied a take on ALL OUR LBs, to illustrate the NEED AT LB. The fact that you are writing off Singleton, James and Love on one hand, while saying we don't need to draft a LB, just blows up your argument and proves mine.

I'd give up now, to save yourself from further embarrassment.

 

[wileedog]

I agree with BZ... I don't think there is any way you can look at Fujita *right now* and pencil him in as a solid starter next year. As he mentioned even if he plays lights out the rest of the year, that would actually make it harder to re-sign him, and quite frankly we haven't seen near enough of him yet to predict what he's going to do this year.

Burnett is also showing to be a tad on the brittle side, further necessitating a need for quality depth IMO.

Unless Fujita turns out to be a monster pass rusher opposite Ware, I still think Parcells is going to want his Carson to go with his LT, and will have an eye open in the draft for a OLB who can blitz, and/or some quality depth. The 3-4 really needs outstanding LBers to function properly, and behind Dat all we have is a lot of potential in Ware and Burnett, and a bunch of JAGs.

Fujita could be a wild card there, no question, but I don't think he's enough for this system to excel the way Parcells want it to. ANd if it comes down to a stud LB or a stud WR, Parcells has shown he will take the LB every time.

 

[Ceasaleo88]

Ahmad Brooks 1st Rd Next Year To Put Opposite Ware Or Next To Dat

 

[Alexander]

Alexander, either Fujita or Burnett will be our future replacement for Bradie James if he proves unworthy of starting.

Neither is a stout inside linebacker type. Burnett could potentially go out there, but Fujita is definitely a strongside OLB.

Nguyen who leads the team with 22 tackles, a sack, interception, and fumble recovery? Parcells has no problem with Dat, and that is why we didn't trade Dat Nguyen to New Orleans.

Nobody is criticizing Dat. But he would be alot more effective with a better inside running mate than James.

Fujita having a year in the 3-4, Burnett and Ware having a year in the nfl... those are all upgrades. Use common sense. None of those players have ever played in the 3-4. You probably think Fujita is no good because he isn't starting. Fact is he is an extremely good player, he like Peerless Price were not with us in the preseason or training camp.

I did not say a word about Fujita not being any good. He will probably end up starting by the end of the year. You don't get to be a team's leading tackler by being bad, even if it was KC's defense.

Shanle and Fowler are capable backups. The only concerns parcells has about the lb corp at the moment is lack of experience, and lack of depth on the outside.

"At the moment". But come April, he might change his tune. Coach Parcells is all about linebackers. Always has been.

If James isn't the futuer we still have Burnett or Fujita who can replace him.

I think we have other plans for Fujita than the inside, like I said. As for Burnett, if he keeps getting nicked, who says Coach is going to trust him?

Yea, I'll bet you my account against yours that we don't draft a linebacker in the first. Did you see Parcells drafting linebackers high in 2003 or 2004? Terence Newman, Al Johnson, Jason Witten, Julius Jones, Jacob Rogers, Stephen Peterman...

You said on day one, the first round is a crapshoot...you never look to draft for need in that round most of the time if you are smart. Rounds two and three? I am convinced we look at one in that range.

You really don't know what Parcells is going to do. We have the oldest starting receiver duo in the nfl, and both of their contracts are up in 2007. He is going to draft a receiver for the future of this team.

And neither do you. But Coach Parcells is a creature of habit and his background and history should lead you to think that he does not go against the grain and what he has won with before.

Why do you think he traded for both keyshawn and glenn former first round draft picks?

Because we needed starting quality WRs and he knew them. Simple as that.

something he didn't do in previous tenures...

We were talking about draft tendencies. Not trading patterns.

Copper and Crowder are easily replaceable, but I don't know whether you replacement them or not. there really isn't a need unless they don't show improvement.

I think the fact that one is basically a special teamer and does not know if he is active week to week and the other is a raw player on the practice squad is an indicator of anything.

Going by the way you appear to believe, this is a team that is set with depth at linebacker and just needs a few tweaks. And we would "draft for need". Am I wrong?

If that were the case, then we would have looked at Kalen Thornton this offseason and passed on Ware thinking we had our outside pass rusher.