Our rookies (MJS Quotes)

[Vintage]

Found this interesting...

The Milwaukee State Journal's Bob McGinn always has good pre-draft information including quotes from scouts he talks to. Here is what was said about our player's pre draft. The number next to their name corresponds to their position rank.

1. TRAVIS FREDERICK, Wisconsin (6-3 ½, 316, 5.56, 2) - Fourth-year junior with 18 starts at center and 13 at LG. "I'm enthralled with him," one scout said. "He's a first-rounder to me. If people don't like him they're crazy. He's better than (Peter) Konz and (Kevin) Zeitler from last year. He was the best offensive lineman Wisconsin had in 2011. He's a bull. Smart. He's better than (David) DeCastro." Worked out poorly at the combine, including merely 21 reps on the bench. "He's just a bad athlete . . . surprisingly bad," another scout said. "Usually those Wisconsin guys aren't top-flight, but he just doesn't move very well. Great (intelligence), effort, the whole deal." Graduated from Walworth Big Foot High school, from Sharon, Wis. "I'd take him in the third or fourth round," said a third scout, adding that the terrible 40 time had no bearing on his grade. "I didn't think he was a very good athlete. He's a great leader. Tough as nails. But I don't think he can play center and guard at a rate that makes me feel he will become a starter any time soon."

3. GAVIN ESCOBAR, San Diego State (6-6, 250, 4.80, 2) - Fourth-year junior plays faster than he timed, according to several personnel people. "He ran better at pro day than at the combine, but it doesn't matter," one scout said. "He can really catch. He's what people are doing now. But he doesn't block at all." Three-year starter with 122 catches for 1,646 yards (13.5) and 17 TDs. Bench-pressed 225 pounds just 12 times, far below Ertz's 24 and Eifert's 22. "He's not a blocker. They don't even use him as a blocker there," another scout said. "They've got two other guys they use. As a pass catcher, he's not a nifty, athletic guy. Kind of a big target who runs on a straight line down the field." Scored 28 on the Wonderlic. Out of Rancho Santa Margarita, Calif. "Appears to be a taller Aaron Hernandez," a third scout said. "I had him in 4.84, but he sure plays faster than that."

7. TERRANCE WILLIAMS, Baylor (6-2, 207, 4.50, 2-3) - Spent five years in Waco, redshirting in 2008 and starting his final three seasons. "Coming out of that offense all those guys are behind because they haven't run a lot of different routes," one scout said. "Really strong. His 40 isn't as great as some other guys' but they talk about carrying your pads. That's him. Guys put their hands on him and he's still running as fast. He's just really raw." Caught 201 passes for 3,294 yards (16.4) and 27 TDs. "I don't like him as much as the guy from there last year (Kendall Wright)," said another scout. "He's a deep threat outside the numbers." Calls Dallas home.

9. J.J. WILCOX, Georgia Southern (6-0, 216, 4.53, 3-4) - Played WR in 2009, slotback in '10, RB in '11 and safety in '12. "In 2011, the guy was playing A-back in the double wing," one scout said. "They switched him over in the spring (of 2012) because of depth concerns. He had never played in the secondary. Ever. At first there were some really bad angles, but he got better. He will hit your (expletive). He's got a great chance to start some day. He has all the faculties you look for as a safety in the NFL." Caught 45 passes, rushed for 968 yards (7.0 average), returned kickoffs extremely well and had 96 tackles ( 1/2 for loss) plus two picks. Wonderlic of 15. "He's a very talented athlete, and I think he can cover," another scout said. "But I deal in present, and the present tells me he's a long ways away." From Cairo, Ga.

CB BW Webb - Nothing listed

11. JOSEPH RANDLE, Oklahoma State (5-10, 203, 4.69, 4-5) - Third-year junior. "He's more a straight-line, downhill runner," one scout said. "And he's not a real big back to do stuff like that." Rushed 564 times for 3,085 yards (5.5) and caught 108 passes for 917 (8.5). Regarded as a character risk by some teams. "Not a great kid but a pretty good runner," another scout said. "He runs tough and he can make you miss. He made (Texas FS) Kenny Vaccaro look like an idiot in the open field. Plays faster than his 4.6." Hails from Wichita, Kan.

LB DeVonte Holloman - Nothing listed

 

[Vintage]

Green Bay - Wisconsin's Travis Frederick is going to become the slowest center drafted by a National Football League team in 20 years.

As the saying goes, the farther Frederick goes, the worse he looks. His new employer almost can forget about him ranging far afield on screens, knocking defenders off piles downfield, coming across the field on a reverse or recovering a fumble close to the boundary.

That became apparent Feb. 23 when Frederick lurched down the FieldTurf surface at the combine in a pair of 40-yard dashes clocked at 5.56 seconds.

"I thought he'd run at least 5.4," an executive in personnel said. "He's not a good athlete on tape, but I didn't think he'd run 5.6."

To think Frederick dropped an estimated 20 pounds in seven weeks and still looked awful caused some but certainly not all teams that liked him to reevaluate.

"Yes, the workout did expose him," said an AFC personnel man. "His feet are so (expletive) slow. He's beginning to scare me the more I watch him. Before, I had him 25 to 40. There's no way he goes first round now."

When scouts assembled 10 days later at UW pro day, Frederick elected not to run another 40 and to go back to performing football drills only.

"His workouts were horrible, but I just don't think it's that big of a deal," another AFC personnel director said. "He needs to quit losing weight and be a 335-pound Wisconsin guy. He's talented. He's going to start and be a good pro."

From a historical perspective, Frederick's 40 was remarkably bad.

The last center to be drafted that ran over 5.5 was John Wade, who ran 5.52 in 1998. A fifth-round pick, he went on to start 110 games in an 11-year career.

The last center to be drafted that ran slower than Frederick's 5.56 was Mike Devlin in 1993. A third-round draft choice out of Iowa, he was clocked in 5.63 before becoming a starter in two of his seven seasons.

In the last decade, 12 centers have been drafted in the first two rounds. Starting from 2003, their 40 times were 5.25, 5.01, 4.93, 5.15, 5.22, 5.47, 4.87, 5.06, 5.24, 4.96, 4.99, 5.22, 5.17, 5.60, 5.31, 5.16 and 5.22.

A 40 time probably is less significant for an offensive lineman than any other position except specialists. Still, speed is one sign of athleticism, and Frederick's 10-yard splits weren't good, either.

"His play is more indicative of who he is than the 40 time," Tennessee scout Johnny Meads said. "He can identify things and run the offensive line."

One scout said Frederick, who scored 34 of a possible 50 on the Wonderlic intelligence test, "might be the smartest guy in the draft." His intellect was renowned at UW, and line coaches that have interviewed him are amazed at his recall and football knowledge.

Last season, Atlanta general manager Thomas Dimitroff used a second-round pick for what he hopes will be his center for the next decade in Wisconsin's Peter Konz. He watched Frederick as the left guard in 2011 and at center last season, and is convinced he moves well enough to succeed.

"Sure he can," said Dimitroff. "This guy is an urgent, aggressive, tough guy. He is adept and alert inside in a small area. He has really good feel for it."

Since the football renaissance began at UW in 1990, one thing can be said about Badgers linemen. They don't always run and work out well, but they almost always play.


http://www.jsonline.com/sports/subp...r-uws-travis-frederick-rt9i5ug-203715111.html

 

[big dog cowboy]

Still love this draft class.

 

[AsthmaField]

Still love this draft class.

+1.

Frederick is making some scouts look like ****.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

+1.

Frederick is making some scouts look like ****.

I mean, all they really said was his 40 time sucked. I don't really see the relevance. There were no knocks on his play, football IQ, intelligence, work ethic, character, etc. The only knocks were his 40 time and his athleticism in meaningless drills.

 

[AsthmaField]

I mean, all they really said was his 40 time sucked. I don't really see the relevance. There were no knocks on his play, football IQ, intelligence, work ethic, character, etc. The only knocks were his 40 time and his athleticism in meaningless drills.

This part is what I was referring to:

Green Bay - Wisconsin's Travis Frederick is going to become the slowest center drafted by a National Football League team in 20 years.

As the saying goes, the farther Frederick goes, the worse he looks. His new employer almost can forget about him ranging far afield on screens, knocking defenders off piles downfield, coming across the field on a reverse or recovering a fumble close to the boundary.

That became apparent Feb. 23 when Frederick lurched down the FieldTurf surface at the combine in a pair of 40-yard dashes clocked at 5.56 seconds.

"I thought he'd run at least 5.4," an executive in personnel said. "He's not a good athlete on tape, but I didn't think he'd run 5.6."

To think Frederick dropped an estimated 20 pounds in seven weeks and still looked awful caused some but certainly not all teams that liked him to reevaluate.

"Yes, the workout did expose him," said an AFC personnel man. "His feet are so (expletive) slow. He's beginning to scare me the more I watch him. Before, I had him 25 to 40. There's no way he goes first round now."

When scouts assembled 10 days later at UW pro day, Frederick elected not to run another 40 and to go back to performing football drills only.

Hopefully you can see the relevance. If you can't, I will be very upset.

 

[Vintage]

This part is what I was referring to:



Hopefully you can see the relevance. If you can't, I will be very upset.

True. But overall, there was far more positive than negative said about him. One scout said he is a 1st rounder, better than Konz or Zeitler. Better than DeCastro (which, I realize, borders on blasphemy on this board given DeCastro's near Prophet like status).

Another scout said he had him in the 25-40 range before he ran the 40 yard dash. So clearly, that scout liked his talent too.

In putting it all together, its clear that what scouts viewed Frederick versus what ESPN/NFLN/Other media sources was different. Granted, its a limited view of just a few scouts in the aforementioned articles... but interesting nonetheless.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

This part is what I was referring to:



Hopefully you can see the relevance. If you can't, I will be very upset.

Aside from the statement that he (theoretically) doesn't have the speed to get to the second level and make downfield blocks, the only complaints are about his speed. I haven't really read anything that actually mentioned how his lack of speed negatively affected his play on the field. He's no Larry Allen, but he does everything you want a center to do. Find me a statement made by anyone criticizing his on-the-field play and off-the-field character.

This criticism

"As the saying goes, the farther Frederick goes, the worse he looks. His new employer almost can forget about him ranging far afield on screens, knocking defenders off piles downfield, coming across the field on a reverse or recovering a fumble close to the boundary."

seems more theoretical than anything. He's saying an employer shouldn't expect that from him, but I'd question if this person actually watched Frederick play and saw the flaws in his game, or if he just hypothesized based on combine numbers.

 

[AsthmaField]

True. But overall, there was far more positive than negative said about him. One scout said he is a 1st rounder, better than Konz or Zeitler. Better than DeCastro (which, I realize, borders on blasphemy on this board given DeCastro's near Prophet like status).

Another scout said he had him in the 25-40 range before he ran the 40 yard dash. So clearly, that scout liked his talent too.

In putting it all together, its clear that what scouts viewed Frederick versus what ESPN/NFLN/Other media sources was different. Granted, its a limited view of just a few scouts in the aforementioned articles... but interesting nonetheless.

Frederick is making anyone who cares about 40 yard dash times for OL look silly.

 

[Frosty]

Still love this draft class.

Thats two of us.... these Rookies will hopefully have a long NFL career with the Cowboys......WILCOX will be a beast

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Thats two of us.... these Rookies will hopefully have a long NFL career with the Cowboys......WILCOX will be a beast

Yeah, Wilcox's story is amazing. Dude played a different position every year and just started playing safety. Like everyone says, he'll probably need 2-3 years to get acclimated, but he could be a special one.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Frederick is making anyone who cares about 40 yard dash times for OL look silly.

Never understood why OL even run the 40.

 

[cowboys1981]

Frederick gives us a true center vs a platoon of guards trying to fill that role. I don't have to hold my breathe on a crucial play when our center decides to snap on his own.

Williams fits in perfect because he won't be asked to do alot right away. He has WR's on team he can learn from. I'm confident he will eventually be our #2 WR down the road.

Wilcox has some ground to cover. Being the instinctful player he is, he will cover some ground fast.

Holloman finds himself around the ball often. He's going to thrive in Kiffins defense. I can see some picks while he's sitting in coverage.

 

[mrmojo]

The 40 shouldnt matter for OL....its feet, leverage and quickness within a 5 to 10 yard area which should be measured.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

All I could think of while reading the Frederick critique was Terrell Suggs and all the naysayers harping about his cone drill time or something like that,,, lol

 

[CyberB0b]

+1.

Frederick is making some scouts look like ****.

Ummmm he hasn't played in a real game yet.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

I mean, all they really said was his 40 time sucked. I don't really see the relevance. There were no knocks on his play, football IQ, intelligence, work ethic, character, etc. The only knocks were his 40 time and his athleticism in meaningless drills.

Did you read what the third scout listed above said?

Said he wouldn't take him above the 3rd or 4th round and couldn't see him starting in the NFL anytime soon.

 

[dcstands4]

Never understood why OL even run the 40.

so scouts can shitr bricks if one ever goes sub 4

damn nothing on BW, I think Chalres Davis whatever from NFLN sold me on him too soon, but he did have a nice senior bowl

 

[HoosierCowboy]

not assembling a track or gymnastics team--he's a very good football player and you grade draft picks about 3 years later, so far he's an A

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Did you read what the third scout listed above said?

Said he wouldn't take him above the 3rd or 4th round and couldn't see him starting in the NFL anytime soon.

Sure. But why? What are his reasons? Slow 40 time? My point is I've yet to see a criticism about his play.