Overreliance on Zeke Elliott

[percyhoward]

I'd argue it's easier to argue the Zeke pick now. Because we know how the other option is also performing. Let's say they are both at an all pro level. You take the corner in that case EVERY TIME.

Not if you're drafting for a future without Romo, which is what I think that draft showed they were doing.

 

[Galian Beast]

The Patriots traded a 1st and 3rd for WR Brandon Cooks.

/end thread

After how many years of not getting a WR? They did so because first it was a late pick, second, they wanted to extend Brady's career.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Not if you're drafting for a future without Romo, which is what I think that draft showed they were doing.

I see the logic. But the single biggest thing you can do to win football game is to pass better and make the other team pass worse. You can draw a straight line to how a shutdown corner can help you make the other team pass worse. The argument that Zeke helps you pass better is specious at best.

Also we just saw Romo succeed with Demarco. A 3rd round back. We had proof int he room you don't need an elite talent (based on draft capital) to achieve that goal.

 

[xwalker]

After how many years of not getting a WR? They did so because first it was a late pick, second, they wanted to extend Brady's career.

A late 1st plus a 3rd equals a mid-first.

Whatever the reason, you attempted to use the Patriots to prove a point but but neglected a critical detail.

The Pats have also drafted TEs and signed a lot of free agent WRs over the years including Randy Moss.

 

[CowboyRoy]

We over relied on Demarco as well.

Funny that in JG's 2 best years Demarco broke the franchise record for rushing, and Zeke goes for 1,600 and a rushing title as a rookie.

That's the only winning formula they know.

How can you say it is over relying when the results speak for themselves?

 

[percyhoward]

The argument that Zeke helps you pass better is specious at best.

Offense benefits when defenses are forced to play honest, as we saw in 2014 and 2016. You could debate how much of the running threat is the OL and how much is the RB, but we're elite in both areas anyway. And this year we actually suffered more from the loss of Smith and Martin than we did from the loss of Zeke.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Offense benefits when defenses are forced to play honest, as we saw in 2014 and 2016. You could debate how much of the running threat is the OL and how much is the RB, but we're elite in both areas anyway. And this year we actually suffered more from the loss of Smith and Martin than we did from the loss of Zeke.

Pretty sure we are in vehement agreement other than how much to allocate to the RB. And how much the RB matters with our line. I think evidence of missing Smith and Martin vs Zeke speaks for itself as you rightly pointed out. Was a good year for that analysis with the varying injuries (small sample size of course).

 

[ThatJerryKid]

It's a joke Garrett runs this guy 30 times a game. All it's getting us is a shortened career for Zeke.

It's not a joke using Elliott 30 times a game to win. He's our best weapon. What's a joke, is using him 30 times in a meaningless week 17 game. That is inexcusable to me. Save his legs for games that matter. He should not have had 1 touch in that game. If he tore up his knee and missed 2018, this board would have gone bonkers...

 

[percyhoward]

Pretty sure we are in vehement agreement other than how much to allocate to the RB. And how much the RB matters with our line. I think evidence of missing Smith and Martin vs Zeke speaks for itself as you rightly pointed out. Was a good year for that analysis with the varying injuries (small sample size of course).

Right after Zeke was drafted, when I was still under the assumption Romo had 1 or 2 years left, I was making that argument myself.

But the factors that were present then -- the elite QB and the need to build the D fast -- are gone now, and so is most of the steam from the argument.

 

[birdwells1]

Offense benefits when defenses are forced to play honest, as we saw in 2014 and 2016. You could debate how much of the running threat is the OL and how much is the RB, but we're elite in both areas anyway. And this year we actually suffered more from the loss of Smith and Martin than we did from the loss of Zeke.

I totally agree, they didn't play honest this year they cheated up on the run, they cheated in taking away Beasley and Witten and they won because we didn't make them pay.

 

[percyhoward]

I totally agree, they didn't play honest this year they cheated up on the run, they cheated in taking away Beasley and Witten and they won because we didn't make them pay.

We also didn't stretch defenses horizontally like we were able to last year.

 

[big dog cowboy]

We just made a mistake. Literally we would be better off with any player in the top 5 than the guy we got.

That a hard one for me my friend. Zeke is one of the best players in the league.

 

[Tabascocat]

That a hard one for me my friend. Zeke is one of the best players in the league.

Agreed, the only guy I would want now in that top 5 is Goff. I don't think Bosa would have made a huge difference considering we had a couple guys step up. Ramsey, meh.........don't think he is a difference maker either. Give me Zeke over any of those except Goff.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

That a hard one for me my friend. Zeke is one of the best players in the league.

And forces DCs to scheme specifically for him. He is the difference maker and everyone knows it.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Agreed, the only guy I would want now in that top 5 is Goff. I don't think Bosa would have made a huge difference considering we had a couple guys step up. Ramsey, meh.........don't think he is a difference maker either. Give me Zeke over any of those except Goff.

Ramsey was literally in the DPOY conversation. But not a difference maker?

Joey Bosa was Rookie Defensive Player of the Year and just made the Pro Bowl. You can never have too many pass rushers. But not a difference maker?

Wentz was literally the MVP if he doesn't get hurt. But not a difference maker?

Goff has the worst resume of the lot and yet he is the one you rue?

Every single player I just mentioned, Goff, Wentz, Ramsey and Bosa are paid near the bottom of their respective positions pay scale offering tremendous value. Zeke is already paid top 5 RB money.

Kareem Hunt just won the rushing title and was taken at the end of the 3rd round (86th overall). Our franchise single season rushing record holder, Demarco Murray, was taken in the 3rd round (71st overall).

It is amazing that people can read this post ad still defend taking Zeke. Next year some mid round rb will have another great year and we'll be staring at another pro bowl/all pro campaigns from the guys mentioned in this chat and people will still swear we made the right decision.

I got hammered for not wanting Zeke when we took him. I would have thought that all this ensuing evidence of our mistake would have people woke. I guess preconceived notions die very hard.

 

[Tabascocat]

Ramsey was literally in the DPOY conversation. But not a difference maker?

Joey Bosa was Rookie Defensive Player of the Year and just made the Pro Bowl. You can never have too many pass rushers. But not a difference maker?

Wentz was literally the MVP if he doesn't get hurt. But not a difference maker?

Goff has the worst resume of the lot and yet he is the one you rue?

Every single player I just mentioned, Goff, Wentz, Ramsey and Bosa are paid near the bottom of their respective positions pay scale offering tremendous value. Zeke is already paid top 5 RB money.

Kareem Hunt just won the rushing title and was taken at the end of the 3rd round (86th overall). Our franchise single season rushing record holder, Demarco Murray, was taken in the 3rd round (71st overall).

It is amazing that people can read this post ad still defend taking Zeke. Next year some mid round rb will have another great year and we'll be staring at another pro bowl/all pro campaigns from the guys mentioned in this chat and people will still swear we made the right decision.

I got hammered for not wanting Zeke when we took him. I would have thought that all this ensuing evidence of our mistake would have people woke. I guess preconceived notions die very hard.

Difference maker as in for Dallas, not their current teams. Of course, those guys are studs but I was talking about how/used they would be here. Ramsey doesn't make last seasons(2016) secondary much better.

I'll give ya Bosa since Taco probably would have not been drafted but Lawrence and Irving did pretty well. Wentz is out of my thoughts since Dak had a great rookie season.

Dallas is built on an elite run game and Elliott is a key cog in that. There is no guarantee that another RB in that draft would have had the same production here. As much as I don't like a RB going that early, Zeke was needed, not some RB committee with mediocre backs.

And finally, Goff. IMO, he will end up with the best career of those three QB's. I may be wrong, but I like him over Wentz and Dak.......who I expect to have similar careers well shy of Goff.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Ramsey doesn't make last seasons(2016) secondary much better.

Of course Ramsey makes our secondary much better. I can't believe people can type and think that. Adding a true shutdown cover corner can't make the secondary much better?

Wut

 

[Beast_from_East]

It's a joke Garrett runs this guy 30 times a game. All it's getting us is a shortened career for Zeke.

Stephen Jones is big on analytics and was adamant about not resigning Demarco because the numbers say a RB on a second or third contract is not as valuable or productive as a RB on his first contract.

Ergo, the plan is to run Zeke into the ground during the five years we have him........he aint getting a second contract, the numbers don't support it.

 

[Tabascocat]

Of course Ramsey makes our secondary better. I can't believe people can type and think that. Adding a true shutdown cover corner can't make the secondary better?

Wut

We all have our opinions. I ask myself "if Dallas drafted anyone other than Zeke, do they still go 13-3?". My answer is a resounding NO.

You are looking at this in a vacuum. Of course, Ramsey makes that secondary better. Of course, Bosa makes our pass rush better. The QB's are a wash due to Dak having had the best season of the three.

My point was that Zeke is what drives this Dallas team, not a corner or a DE. There is no way Dallas gets the #1 seed last year if they drafted Jalen or Joey.....none, zero, zilch.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

We all have our opinions. I ask myself "if Dallas drafted anyone other than Zeke, do they still go 13-3?". My answer is a resounding NO.

You are looking at this in a vacuum. Of course, Ramsey makes that secondary better. Of course, Bosa makes our pass rush better. The QB's are a wash due to Dak having had the best season of the three.

My point was that Zeke is what drives this Dallas team, not a corner or a DE. There is no way Dallas gets the #1 seed last year if they drafted Jalen or Joey.....none, zero, zilch.

I just don't agree that Zeke was the reason behind going 13-3. And in any case it was a mirage. We weren't much better this year with him than without. The real split in our production happened when we had Tyron go out verses when he was in.

RB just isn't very important. And Barnwell did an analysis on how defenses were playing us with and without Zeke. The difference amounted to with Zeke we faced one more stacked box a game. One.

RBs just don't matter as much as you think. Glittery stats. But it was our Oline. We know this because Murray, Demarco.