Pass block efficiency-week 1

[burmafrd]

And how would you rate and compare the pass blocking efficiencies of offensive lines?

how about the good ol Mark 1 eyeball to start with

 

[MichaelWinicki]

how about the good ol Mark 1 eyeball to start with

OK.

So what's your ranking of all the offensive lines when it comes to pass blocking efficiency after week one?

 

[jday]

The Cowboys were ranked 22nd in pass blocking efficiency based on week 1 vs the Giants.

"Pass blocking efficiency" is based on the number of QB sacks/QB hits/QB hurries compared to the number of pass plays.

The four worst teams after week 1?

Houston, New England, Pittsburgh, New York Giants.

Do these numbers consider when QB's move out of the pocket? Is that considered a "hurry"?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Do these numbers consider when QB's move out of the pocket? Is that considered a "hurry"?

If the QB is forced to move out of the pocket due to pressure exerted by someone on the defense then it is a "hurry". If it's a designed rollout, with no defender getting close to the QB then it is not a "hurry".

 

[Hoofbite]

But couldn't a hurry result in an INT as well?



Craig

Sure. And that's exactly the problem.

A hurry that results in an INT is the same as a hurry that results in the offense scoring a TD.

 

[Supercowboy1986]

ruh roh where is RS to argue this point

 

[Hoofbite]

Holy hell, I knew the QB in Cleveland was bad but it shows on ESPN he has a QBR of 5.1

Been a while since I've seen a QBR that bad.

 

[Hoofbite]

ruh roh where is RS to argue this point

Who? And argue what?

 

[Rack]

If Romo or any QB is hurried but keeps making completions or holds the ball too long and is hurried, that would really skew the stats. And a team that runs the ball a ton, has a crappy QB and manages the game will have better stats.

Even sacks don't bother me too much. I don't really care about any of these rankings. All I care about is how often Romo gets drilled, how many Drives result in points, do we score enough points to win, and when we are desperate for a score in 4th quarter, how often does the protection break down when we really need it most, and did we win.

 

[Hoofbite]

PFF is a mess on these stats right now.

They have 8 teams surrendering 0 sacks.

ESPN has that number at 2.

NFL.com has that number at 2.

The only explanation is that they track their own sacks and they are unwilling to call a play where a QB pulls the ball down and is tackled just short of the LOS a sack.

NFL.com doesn't measure hurries as an official state but they do have it in the play-by-play I believe.

But, there is a problem with NFL.coms numbers in that they don't have accurate numbers of attempts.

Pretty sure New Orleans attempted more than 10 passess and pretty sure Green Bay attempted more than 14 or 15.

 

[Eskimo]

OK.

So what's your ranking of all the offensive lines when it comes to pass blocking efficiency after week one?

I would rank them by what is the average length of time the QB has to release the ball before he is hurried, hit or sacked. I would count the amount of time he took before he released the ball in for those plays in which he got off the throw without a hurry, hit or sack. In general, QBs with great OLs can have deeper drops and hold onto the ball longer. This takes out the factor of play design to negate a weak OL.

Now add that up for every play, average it out by taking the median value and you have some idea about what the pass blocking is like.

Another way of looking at it is the percent of the time that the QB is able to release the ball without duress or had more than 3.2 seconds to survey the field before he was hurried, hit or sacked.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

PFF is a mess on these stats right now.

They have 8 teams surrendering 0 sacks.

ESPN has that number at 2.

NFL.com has that number at 2.

No, the explanation is that you're not looking at the stat numbers on PFF for players other than offensive linemen Hoof.

For example, the Washington offensive line did not allow a sack, but there were two sacks due to other players.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I would rank them by what is the average length of time the QB has to release the ball before he is hurried, hit or sacked. I would count the amount of time he took before he released the ball in for those plays in which he got off the throw without a hurry, hit or sack. In general, QBs with great OLs can have deeper drops and hold onto the ball longer. This takes out the factor of play design to negate a weak OL.

Now add that up for every play, average it out by taking the median value and you have some idea about what the pass blocking is like.

Another way of looking at it is the percent of the time that the QB is able to release the ball without duress or had more than 3.2 seconds to survey the field before he was hurried, hit or sacked.

Sounds like a good job for you Eskimo.

I look forward to your list come Tuesday.

 

[Bluestang]

No, the explanation is that you're not looking at the stat numbers on PFF for players other than offensive linemen Hoof.

For example, the Washington offensive line did not allow a sack, but there were two sacks due to other players.

One of those was because Alfred Morris stepped on Griffin's foot on a playaction fake that caused RGIII to go down.

Morris gets credited for the sack which IMO is a fluke play and he gets penalized in the pass block category for it.

They don't take any game situations into context at all and that is troublesome.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

One of those was because Alfred Morris stepped on Griffin's foot on a playaction fake that caused RGIII to go down.

Morris gets credited for the sack which IMO is a fluke play and he gets penalized in the pass block category for it.

They don't take any game situations into context at all and that is troublesome.

I understand what you're saying.

But it was a sack. Who should get the credit or discredit for it? :laugh2:

Until someone comes out with something better that is accessible to all of us... this is it.

 

[Bluestang]

I understand what you're saying.

But it was a sack. Who should get the credit or discredit for it? :laugh2:

Until someone comes out with something better that is accessible to all of us... this is it.

IMO it shouldn't go against anyone. Their feet got tangled up by accident, it happens on occasion.

I like PFF because of the raw data that they collect but the grading system leaves alot to be desired.

I couldn't even begin to design an improved grading system because I'd rather spend my valuable time watching the tape anyways but it's the only thing that is out there. If I were doing that full time it would be a different story but I simply can't dedicate the time to come up with an entirely new system. I just ignore the grades for the most part and look at the raw data and compare it to other sites like NFL.com, ESPN.com and Football Outsiders.

 

[Hoofbite]

No, the explanation is that you're not looking at the stat numbers on PFF for players other than offensive linemen Hoof.

For example, the Washington offensive line did not allow a sack, but there were two sacks due to other players.

Good call.

Although I was comparing to the NFL.com OL stats so still not sure what to make of it.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...FFENSIVE_LINE&qualified=true&role=TM&tabSeq=2

I guess NFL.com just counts a sack on the OL no matter if it was an TE or a RB who missed the block.

You're probably right though. I'm betting PFF has accounted for that and NFL.com hasn't.

Good spot.

 

[Hoofbite]

I understand what you're saying.

But it was a sack. Who should get the credit or discredit for it? :laugh2:

Until someone comes out with something better that is accessible to all of us... this is it.

Well, there really isn't any way to get something much better.

You'd have to watch every single down and time it.

You'd have to tally the plays in which a blitz was called.

You'd have to negate all plays in which the QB was hurried and got positive yardage. I'd be willing to bet that the offense is hoping the DL gets a little pressure if they are trying to run a screen to the RB.

I'd also severely limit the points for hits on positive yards. I wouldn't make it zero because getting a hit is worth something but I wouldn't give it full points.

What do you do when 2 players get free and hurry the QB? Is that twice as bad as a single rusher coming with pressure? It shouldn't be the same, that's for sure.

There's a .gif in another thread where 4 Bucs all sacked Newton within about 1 second. I don't think you can give a score equal to 4 times the amount because it was obviously a bust but it should count for more than if only one of those guys comes in.

I really wish I had the time to work it out. Even if you watched the condensed versions of the game, you'd still have to look at 8 hours of footage and it would likely take 2-3X that amount to get all the information out of the play that you wanted.

 

[AdamJT13]

But, there is a problem with NFL.coms numbers in that they don't have accurate numbers of attempts.

Pretty sure New Orleans attempted more than 10 passess and pretty sure Green Bay attempted more than 14 or 15.

I'm seeing accurate numbers at NFL.com.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...=1&conference=ALL&d-447263-s=PASSING_ATTEMPTS

 

[Risen Star]

I understand what you're saying.

But it was a sack. Who should get the credit or discredit for it? :laugh2:

Until someone comes out with something better that is accessible to all of us... this is it.

There is something better.

Watching the games and using your own brain.