Pass Defense in Wade World

[Crown Royal]

Folks - I haven't seen the game, but I feel it should be mentioned. There are going to be times teams pass on us successfully. Wade runs nothing like a 'bend don't break' defense. His is a smash or crack sort. As I understand it, he has never been known for his secondaries - he is known for his pressure. Teams, when they could beat the blitz, were capable of passing downfield. No amount of secondary superstardom will prevent this.

I just want to make the point that there will be times it seems that teams are going to be passing all over us. We will probably lose a game or two in the air. That is what we accepted in signing Phillips - we hope to get better up front, but our secondary is going to look toasty from time to time. This isn't to say we made the wrong decision, but ever defense has a weakness - this will be ours. I hope everyone is prepared for this.

 

[theogt]

Kubiak did exactly what you do against an agressive defense. It was a dink and dunk offense with a lot of quick ins and a lot of misdirection plays. He called it perfectly and they executed. The good news is that those quick passes were almost universally against Glenn, who wouldn't be in the game on most plays in a regular season game. With Newman it would have been a much different story.

Now, that's what happened in the passing game, I have no idea what the hell was going on that caused the run defense to be so horrible. That's what worried me the most.

 

[CATCH17]

Good points and for those of us who are glad we got rid of Zimmer just having this defense installed is well worth it.

We are going to try and dictate the offense this year and let them dictate us.

If we have some bad days because of it so be it. It will pay off in the long run.

 

[Jake0]

Funny thing is.... in a "bend but don't break defense" we still gave up WAY too many big plays through the air. I'll take the aggressive defense that sometimes gives up big plays through the air but also forces more interceptions and sacks. You give any good quarterback in the league time and eventually some schmoe, be it the 3rd WR, fullback, 2nd TE whatever, someone will get open. Forcing an offense to go max protect is the best thing a defense can do imo.

 

[theogt]

Funny thing is.... in a "bend but don't break defense" we still gave up WAY too many big plays through the air. I'll take the aggressive defense that sometimes gives up big plays through the air but also forces more interceptions and sacks. You give any good quarterback in the league time and eventually some schmoe, be it the 3rd WR, fullback, 2nd TE whatever, someone will get open. Forcing an offense to go max protect is the best thing a defense can do imo.

How many "big plays through the air" did we give up?

 

[Jake0]

I certainly hope I don't have to go back and count the number from the past 2 seasons.

 

[Rampage]

what i wanna know is exactly how much wade is holding back and how much our pass rush will improve from last year. I haven't been impressed with the pass rush so far other than the fact we are atleast trying to get to the qb.

 

[theogt]

I certainly hope I don't have to go back and count the number from the past 2 seasons.

Sorry, I misread your post.

what i wanna know is exactly how much wade is holding back and how much our pass rush will improve from last year. I haven't been impressed with the pass rush so far other than the fact we are atleast trying to get to the qb.

If you're not happy with this passrush, I don't think you'll ever be. Watch it closely. The QBs have no time to throw, and are getting hit directly after they do throw. You're not going to see 7 step drops on this defense. You're not going to see 5 step drops and a couple pats on the ball. We've been getting a lot of pressure and forcing the QBs to throw quick passes. And I'm sure it'll only get better as the players get more accustomed to the new defense and Spencer grows into his position.

 

[TunaFan33]

what i wanna know is exactly how much wade is holding back and how much our pass rush will improve from last year. I haven't been impressed with the pass rush so far other than the fact we are atleast trying to get to the qb.

Frankly-it looks to me like Wade(and Garrett) have hardly opened up their playbook this preseason. If anything from what I noticed yesterday, they were mainly looking at players and "experimenting" with some plays.

 

[Jake0]

what i wanna know is exactly how much wade is holding back and how much our pass rush will improve from last year. I haven't been impressed with the pass rush so far other than the fact we are atleast trying to get to the qb.

On a couple of plays early on yesterday, I saw some timed blitzes that were right at the snap. Didn't do it anymore after that so it was probably just a few tests, but it's already a huge improvement over a MLB and Roy running into the gaps with 20 seconds left on the clock just giving away your blitz and giving the opposing OL hours to plan their defense. Once I start seeing players disguise blitzes, mixing it up, keeping opposing offenses guessing then I'll be very satisfied already with what Wade is bringing to the table.

I would have figured a psychological mastermind like Parcells would completely screw with opposing coaches as to what he's going to be doing... but apparently for whatever reason he tried to just win being basic. Would liked to AT LEAST have seen one of those 15 second stack the line blitzes with your MLBs and SS be a fake.

 

[slick325]

In a perfect world the front seven should provide a pass rush limiting the amount of blitzes you have to call. In the absence of that, coaches become very aggressive and bring people from all over the field, CB's, safeties the entire kitchen sink!

The Commanders and Eagles run the aggressive style defense that dictates to the offense as opposed to having the offense dictate to them. The one thing Greg Williams and Jim Johnson have in common is the fact that they believe in having strong secondaries. They understand that when you take more chances the more succeptible you are to big plays in the passing game. In order to be successful they need ballhawking corners and safeties. They place "steaks" at all their secondary positions: Bobby Taylor, Troy Vincent, Sean Dawkins, Michael Lewis, Lito Sheppard, Sheldon Brown all high draft picks for the Eagles. Shawn Springs, Fred Smoot, Carlos Rogers, LaRon Landry, Sean Taylor all high draft picks or pricey free agents in Washington secondary. Sadly, both of these teams have won more playoff games in the last 10 years with their aggressive defenses predicated on blitzing and man coverage than our Cowboys. It works for them and will work in Dallas once we upgrade the players around TNew and Roy Williams.

In 2008 CB, possibly FS (we'll see what Hamlin has) as well as WR and RB need to be priorities. Although, something tells me that the pass rush helps the secondary crowd will object to drafting a CB in the 1st round next spring and opt for another DE/OLB in the 1st. :bang2:

 

[AsthmaField]

Sorry, I misread your post.

Funny. I misread it as well. Not sure why, but I thought he was saying the opposite of what he really was. Maybe I need glasses?


:geek:

 

[TunaFan33]

Folks - I haven't seen the game, but I feel it should be mentioned. There are going to be times teams pass on us successfully. Wade runs nothing like a 'bend don't break' defense. His is a smash or crack sort. As I understand it, he has never been known for his secondaries - he is known for his pressure. Teams, when they could beat the blitz, were capable of passing downfield. No amount of secondary superstardom will prevent this.

I just want to make the point that there will be times it seems that teams are going to be passing all over us. We will probably lose a game or two in the air. That is what we accepted in signing Phillips - we hope to get better up front, but our secondary is going to look toasty from time to time. This isn't to say we made the wrong decision, but ever defense has a weakness - this will be ours. I hope everyone is prepared for this.

For one, San Diego has a weak secondary to begin with. I've posted this many times before, but even our secondary *sans* TNew, is still heads and shoulders above SDs. Don't know if it means faint praise or not, but from just what I've head.

Two, Wade's secondary in Denver was pretty darn good.

And three, Wade's defenses stopped the run consistently. If anything, Jim Johnson's and Greg Williams' D's have this biggest weaknesses in their schemes.

So I'm satisfied.

 

[AsthmaField]

but even our secondary *sans* TNew, is still heads and shoulders above SDs.

I'm not sure about that...

 

[Rampage]

Sorry, I misread your post.

If you're not happy with this passrush, I don't think you'll ever be. Watch it closely. The QBs have no time to throw, and are getting hit directly after they do throw. You're not going to see 7 step drops on this defense. You're not going to see 5 step drops and a couple pats on the ball. We've been getting a lot of pressure and forcing the QBs to throw quick passes. And I'm sure it'll only get better as the players get more accustomed to the new defense and Spencer grows into his position.

yeah i'm probally just being impatient. but where are the sacks and turnovers?

 

[TunaFan33]

I'm not sure about that...

When Merriman got suspended, that's when their secondary REALLY got torched(gave up 40+ pts to Cincy, and didn't do any better against Denver). The only reason why they won those games was 'cuz those teams had crummy Ds.

 

[theogt]

yeah i'm probally just being impatient. but where are the sacks and turnovers?

It's not important. Forcing a bad throw on a 3rd down is just as good as a sack. When we start playing 4 quarters and we're bringing the heat all game, those things will fall into place. The pressure is there. We're in the backfield every single play.

 

[Clove]

On a couple of plays early on yesterday, I saw some timed blitzes that were right at the snap. Didn't do it anymore after that so it was probably just a few tests, but it's already a huge improvement over a MLB and Roy running into the gaps with 20 seconds left on the clock just giving away your blitz and giving the opposing OL hours to plan their defense. Once I start seeing players disguise blitzes, mixing it up, keeping opposing offenses guessing then I'll be very satisfied already with what Wade is bringing to the table.

:laugh1:
And another thing I should point out or add to this post. We don't always blitz, although we appear to. We bring a ton of guys to the line, only sending 4 in most cases, but the offense doesn't know which 4 are coming.

 

[jrumann59]

Shanahan probably helped Kubiak a bit also

 

[Crown Royal]

Props to thread starter :biggrin: