Pass Defense was elite potential!

baltcowboy said:
Side note. Washington literally has no pass rushers. I think they believe they were going to get the Bengals pass rusher through a trade. They might have made a big mistake passing over EZ. Talk about players to compare during the season, the Oregon tackle and EZ. We really have a good chance to finish second in the NFC East.
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Made zero sense to pass on him and Green as they have zero pass rush. Hell, we took their best best rusher in Fowler.
 
I agree with the OP. The potential is there. But it's more than just that, right? The scheme behind out DL matters too. Flashback to week 2 last year against the Saints. They torched us through the air. Carr didn't have a lot of time. He dropped back, waited a second and the ball was out. Sure they ran it down our throats after they got the lead, but it was all but over by then. The Saints didn't go from good to crap in a couple of weeks. They played two unprepared teams in Carolina and Dallas. We made them look like super bowl contenders. In hindsight we can see they were never that good. The same could be said, to some extent, about the GB game. Yeah, they killed us on the ground, but they had no problem through the air before that happened. As opposed to the playoff game against the Rams in 2018 where the ground game was what killed us right from the start.
 
Flamma said:
I agree with the OP. The potential is there. But it's more than just that, right? The scheme behind out DL matters too. Flashback to week 2 last year against the Saints. They torched us through the air. Carr didn't have a lot of time. He dropped back, waited a second and the ball was out. Sure they ran it down our throats after they got the lead, but it was all but over by then. The Saints didn't go from good to crap in a couple of weeks. They played two unprepared teams in Carolina and Dallas. We made them look like super bowl contenders. In hindsight we can see they were never that good. The same could be said, to some extent, about the GB game. Yeah, they killed us on the ground, but they had no problem through the air before that happened. As opposed to the playoff game against the Rams in 2018 where the ground game was what killed us right from the start.
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I'm interested to see what Eberflus comes up schematically to play better against the run. Zimmer was making the necessary adjustments but he was working with a mash unit. There were real improvements when the players started to return.
 
75boyz said:
Well, I mean as far as pass defense goes, Quinn got 'em a whole lotta turnovers 2 years in a row and a nice number of sacks too. Not sure where Zimmer's pass defense group stacked up last year numbers wise. What I do know is
Quinn's group led the league in turnovers caused and top 5 to 10 in sacks and that was a pretty good pass defense standard.
They just sucked at stopping the run.

I hope their pass defense is as good as Quinn's honestly.
The desperate need is at run defense improvement.
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Problem is, Quinn's scheme sold out to get to the QB and opened up huge rushing lanes. We need a mixture of Quinn's pressure and Zimmer's discipline to make it work.
 
Cowboyny said:
I'm not sold on Williams or the Clemson back, but they may play it out first before they make a move. Why not bring in Chubb? Costs us nothing to see if he is back.
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We already have a RB coming off injuries, in Williams. He and Chubb would be the same.
One is fine, but both, takes away reps from the other RB's.
However, how many would that actually be. Just 4 or 5 a practice? May still be worth a look.
 
jazzcat22 said:
We already have a RB coming off injuries, in Williams. He and Chubb would be the same.
One is fine, but both, takes away reps from the other RB's.
However, how many would that actually be. Just 4 or 5 a practice? May still be worth a look.
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It's about competition, they may already have that within the positional group, but a player like Chubb is worth a flyer as he was one of the best backs just two years ago.
 
Cowboyny said:
Problem is, Quinn's scheme sold out to get to the QB and opened up huge rushing lanes. We need a mixture of Quinn's pressure and Zimmer's discipline to make it work.
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Well, imo they've got plenty of passrushers and not enough runstoppers.
So the Eberflus run stop scheme will be on full display but without the supporting talent he needs at both the 1st and 2nd levels to be anything better than a poor front 7 run stop group.
AGAIN.
 
Elite potential? This defense was awful last year. Awful. I think Zimmer actually did a pretty good job as the year went on, he just had so little to work with.

And we don't have much better now. I don't see how Eze is more than a designated pass rusher early on. Mazi is still terrible. Linebackers are average at best. And now Diggs is gone - that was a nasty injury and I'll be very surprised if he's ever the same.

Sure, if the other team has penalties or something to put them in long yardage, we should be able to generate a rush. But getting them in long yardage will be the problem.
 
75boyz said:
Well, imo they've got plenty of passrushers and not enough runstoppers.
So the Eberflus run stop scheme will be on full display but without the supporting talent he needs at both the 1st and 2nd levels to be anything better than a poor front 7 run stop group.
AGAIN.
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Schematically, you can do some things to help your run defense, we saw Zimmer try this last season. However, as you said, you still need run players to make it work no matter the scheme.

With the personnel they have, I would add a legitimate, veteran NT and play more of a 3-4 in the base (run downs). Remember, Eberflus originally came from Rob Ryan's two gap, 3-4 scheme. They have a ton of 3-4 OLB's on this roster, you could play in essence a 5 man front with 2 off the ball linebackers.
 
ATXSRT said:
Literally, or we'll face a run first offense and they'll run down our throats and we'll never have them in 3rd and long situations. Kinda like Bills, 49ers, and Greenbay have done to us.
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.....and even then 8-9 Cardinals.
 
jazzcat22 said:
We already have a RB coming off injuries, in Williams. He and Chubb would be the same.
One is fine, but both, takes away reps from the other RB's.
However, how many would that actually be. Just 4 or 5 a practice? May still be worth a look.
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Chubb the same as Williams? Slow the roll!!! Williams is a nice comp back, Chubb is beyond beast. If he can come back from injury in 2023, he's a stud.
 
Cowboyny said:
Schematically, you can do some things to help your run defense, we saw Zimmer try this last season. However, as you said, you still need run players to make it work no matter the scheme.

With the personnel they have, I would add a legitimate, veteran NT and play more of a 3-4 in the base (run downs). Remember, Eberflus originally came from Rob Ryan's two gap, 3-4 scheme. They have a ton of 3-4 OLB's on this roster, you could play in essence a 5 man front with 2 off the ball linebackers.
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If we can find a NT and a run stopping DE other side of Osa, those two edge rushers would be awesome.
 
Cowboyny said:
Wrote a post this week about concerns with the team's run defense, but if they can hold up on the early downs, they potentially could have special passing defense:

-They are loaded with edge rushers where several can be deployed in many spots. Parsons, Fowler are the proven guys, Ez is very advanced as a pass rusher heading into the league, then you have a player like Sam Williams on a contract year who might be the most talented out of the group not named Parson. Throw in Kneeland who has a non stop motor that was starting to figure it out prior to his injury and a player like Turner who was a former 1st rd selection. It is not a homer opinion, but the Cowboys might of the best group of pass rushers in the entire league and this is without Overshown who will come back at some point next season, hopefully fully healthy.

Keep in mind, Eberflus scheme is all about getting quick, up the field pressure and forcing the QB to throw quickly into tight windows. He has the players who can effectively accomplish that. It's all about surviving the run downs and unleashing hell!

-We do have health concerns about two potential starters at the corner position, but if all three get onto the field, the sky is the limit. First Revel at this same stage is the better prospect then both Diggs/Bland were. He was been recruited to transfer to all the power schools but decided he wanted to stay at East Carolina cause they gave him his chance. Diggs gets a ton of flack mainly cause of his tackling, but he has proven to be a lock down corner. He has had success against the top receivers in the game today. Bland is a turnover machine, still developing as a corner, but he is a true play maker at the position.

We hear that Eberflus wants to play a heavy zone scheme, so did Quinn and Zimmer, but they realized they have special man corners. Yes, he will disguise his coverages, but I am expecting a ton of press man cross the board. If the corners can play strong press coverage and our pass rush gets quick pressure, that is where all the turnovers start to happen like we saw two seasons ago.

This is why my first post was about their run defense, if they can just hold up, they could become an elite championship level defense. Teams are going to try to avoid the Cowboys pass rush at all costs, by running the football against this small front. This is why the defense success will be all about winning the early downs!
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I disagree LOL

Just kidding,

finally, a positive post, sort of, you might be right,

but I don't know what we're going to get from our corners because they're injured, I mean with Diggs and Butler slow to come back we're actually counting on a drafted player in revel also injured and coming back..

I mean we're also waiting on Overshown who's also a pressure guy that we need back that can also help stop the run, I think teams knowing this early because as it stands unless they bring back Gilmore we're playing with fire here not realizing you know who's covering who I mean right now we have drawn blands are only proven corner..

So that's going to be a big question mark coming out of camp into preseason we're going to find out updates on all these players on when they might come back and whatnot but I mean who are the other corners we got Elam and Carson I know they brought some undrafted free agents over and I think they have that guy named Troy Pride who looked promising maybe he'll get a shot but that's my point and our best players the best three in my opinion would be digs Butler and Revel are all coming off a knee injuries or whatever injuries I had they're all going to be working their way into shape so they're going to not only get back but are they going to be sharp?

So while your premise makes sense it might be the opposite they might test those corners because when they look over there and see guys name Elom and Carson they don't even bother looking over at Bland they're going to look to eat you remember last year the end of the year like I realized the pass rush will help the corners but I remember all those dudes rotating in I don't know that guy Booth and AO and all these other guys and they were just feasting on any of those guys coming in they were just look over there and go yeah that's where the ball is going I mean everybody knew it and that's where it was going...


So I think early on teams are going to test both areas like all teams should we're going to do that to our opponents I don't think they're just going to run the ball and stay away from our past rush until they see it it'll take a month before some of this starts to form an identity where teams can get enough film and figure out where they want to attack but I think our weaknesses at corner will make them test that as well early so I don't think they're just going to try to run the ball down our throat..

which by the way I'm pretty sure Eberflus is knows that's coming and is going to make sure they put the best packages together that they possibly can going into game one on that front 7 as they say you know looking at the middle of our defense and two to three linebackers whoever safety is going to come in and help I think he's going to have a good idea of how they can try to stop the run with the pieces we have. I know you don't like those dudes but we got some beef somebody's going to win those jobs somebody's going to be in the rotation in the middle of that defensive line it could be a surprise that's why right now all these opinions are just that...

So I think game plans are going to have to be developed by our schedule we haven't even seen the schedule yet I know we know the teams we might play but we don't know when we're playing them so we have a team that's better at running sure they'll probably run the ball more but if we have a team that's got a great set of wide receivers and a really good quarterback I guarantee they're going to be testing those corners...
 
Cowboyny said:
Schematically, you can do some things to help your run defense, we saw Zimmer try this last season. However, as you said, you still need run players to make it work no matter the scheme.

With the personnel they have, I would add a legitimate, veteran NT and play more of a 3-4 in the base (run downs). Remember, Eberflus originally came from Rob Ryan's two gap, 3-4 scheme. They have a ton of 3-4 OLB's on this roster, you could play in essence a 5 man front with 2 off the ball linebackers.
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Yep, agreed. This would seem to be Eberflus's best alternative based on the personnel he's got.
Nice post.

Not sure of your suggestion's ultimate outcome but relying consistently on that standard 4-3 base and all the player limitations spells disaster yet again.
 
I just have to say that we've seen teams like san Fran turn around their defenses in an iff season. there is no reason we can't do the same with new blood and coaching. I'm as pessimistic as they come, but I believe there is a chance this defense is pretty good.
 
johneric8 said:
I just have to say that we've seen teams like san Fran turn around their defenses in an iff season. there is no reason we can't do the same with new blood and coaching. I'm as pessimistic as they come, but I believe there is a chance this defense is pretty good.
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Can't turn your D around w/ ordinary DTs.
 
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